JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Toon fans just want some hope by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun WHAT is it about the Newcastle United manager’s job that seemingly sends sane men a bit mad? It appears Sam Allardyce may be the latest to lose rhyme and reason in seeking to solve the riddle of 39 trophy-less years on Tyneside. Well, so it appears to certain people who watch the Magpies for kicks or for a living. Outsiders? They’d have us believe no manager could bear the aforementioned statistical monkey on his back and the burden of supporters whose expectations are absurdly unrealistic. Take The Times, which chose a brave moment indeed – the aftermath of Boxing Day’s debacle at Wigan – to blame United’s plight on their fans. “The Newcastle supporters are notoriously difficult to please,” wrote the paper’s occasional Magpie twitcher. “Their baseless belief that the club ought to be mixing it with the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal at the top of the Premier League hardly helps Allardyce and his many recent predecessors, nor does the demand for the champagne football that Kevin Keegan once brought to St James’s Park.” But then, few outsiders have ever really understood Newcastle United. How can people who pick their football club like they would a settee pass judgement on those who had it chosen for them at birth? Unrealistic expectations? Supporters up here may crave success, but one thing they have learned over so many years is not to expect it. The demand for champagne football? Plain lazy mythology – what Tyneside wants is a winning team, whatever it takes – that falls flatter than ever after another irredeemable display in defeat. Perhaps these misconceptions lie in the fact that the Magpies’ mob mouth off during games, while fans further south simply vote with their feet. Yet it’s because St James’s Park remains all but full that Allardyce was attracted to Newcastle. He wanted a big job at a big club, and it’s the supporters – and the supporters alone – who make Newcastle a big club. So it’s a bit rich to accuse them of demanding too much of him in return. But I digress. For what those supporters do demand is for their team to at least try to play to its strengths, and with some semblance of shape and spirit. Remind anyone – in any way – of Newcastle’s display at Wigan? Some hope. No, part of the reason why Allardyce, despite fans’ appreciation of the potential value of continuity at a club with an ever-revolving door, is in such peril is because that performance, as with others previous, was all too familiar. The now-traditional no-show at the JJB could have been plucked straight from the Graeme Souness scrapbook . . . Players out of position, out of ideas and, apparently, all out of motivation. At Bolton, a club he more or less re-invented, Allardyce’s tactics were simple (despite what he would have had us believe) and extremely sound. At Newcastle, his methods (for, as he is quick to remind us, they are many) make increasingly little sense. Alan Smith as centre-forward one week, supplementary centre-half the next. A left winger at left-back while a £6 million left-back (Allardyce’s biggest summer signing) sits on the bench. A right winger played wide left. Three central midfield spoilers played together. And, all the while, players being dropped and recalled at dizzying pace. If Rafa Benitez is Mr Tinkerman, Big Sam is becoming Mr Meddle. Or Mr Muddle. But as well as obvious doubts over his future, that raises a wider question of why managing Newcastle prompts previously strong, straightforward men to turn, well, weird. It’s too easy to blame pressure. That exists elsewhere. My theory? It’s that at a club synonymous (having won nowt as a team) with “big” individuals – the Macdonalds, the Keegans, the Beardsleys et Big Al – and an opinionated crowd, an incoming manager strives that bit harder – consciously or otherwise – to assert his authority. If Allardyce’s recent tactics and selection policy say anything, it is surely: “I’m in charge.” But in charge of what, and for how long? Allardyce talks long and loud about the need for continuity in the dug-out, yet forsakes it on the field. Why expect fans not to panic when his ever-changing teamsheet screams the word? Yes, he has been unfortunate with injuries. But let’s not forget, they are injuries HE claimed would soon be a thing of the past. And while it’s all very well talking about three-year or five-year plans – as I say, no Newcastle fan wants to go through a manager a year – patience is a hard ask when it is difficult to discern any plan whatsoever in the here and now. “Notoriously difficult to please”? How does that equate with 50,000 turning up once a fortnight to watch almost unrelenting dross these last three years? “Champagne football”? No, those 50,000 neither demand that nor live in the “baseless belief” that Newcastle should be at the top of the league. All they ask for is hope; the currency they have traded in for half-a-century or more. And hope, much like an explanation of Allardyce’s thought processes, seems very distant right now. Neil Farrington's column in today's Sunday Sun. Must say I agree with it 100%, I think he's spot on as per usual. Lays into the national press as well which always helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Good crack from him tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Good article, don't agree with all of it, he's over protective of the fans' role in all this for example, but I think in general he's hit the right notes. I especially like the theory that managers here try too hard and to be too assertive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Good article, don't agree with all of it, he's over protective of the fans' role in all this for example, but I think in general he's hit the right notes. I especially like the theory that managers here try too hard and to be too assertive. Yeah, that stood out for me as well. I reckon it's quite a legitmate theory about how so many have failed, and could also explain why the likes of Keegan and Robson didn't 'fail' as such, in how they enjoyed years of 'success'. They almost understand how a Newcastle fan's mind works so knew the effort they had to put in as such. With the likes of Allardyce and Souness, they're termed as 'outsiders' and all they've seen prior to the club is the idea that we are unaccepting, tough fans to please and so they feel they have to try extra hard to assert themselves onto the club, which could explain the strange tactics and decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Or maybe Allardyce isn't the tactical genius he would like us to believe he is. We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) yet it's hard to think of a time when we looked like a good, well-balanced outfit. I'm not saying sack him now by any means, I just don't buy into this trying too hard because of his perception of the fans theory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) Something that jerks me, how many times have we played the same team back to back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Or maybe Allardyce isn't the tactical genius he would like us to believe he is. We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) yet it's hard to think of a time when we looked like a good, well-balanced outfit. I'm not saying sack him now by any means, I just don't buy into this trying too hard because of his perception of the fans theory. Well obviously the brunt of where he's failed lies with his tactical decisions and team lineups, but this theory on perception of fans adds to how he ended up in this position in the first place. I don't think it's solely down to trying too hard, he has made the wrong decisions and he has to stand by that failure. It also explains why he isn't the only manager that has failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) Something that jerks me, how many times have we played the same team back to back? Once, to memory. Would have to check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Very good article imo. Is he a Newcastle fan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Very good article imo. Is he a Newcastle fan? I think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Or maybe Allardyce isn't the tactical genius he would like us to believe he is. We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) yet it's hard to think of a time when we looked like a good, well-balanced outfit. I'm not saying sack him now by any means, I just don't buy into this trying too hard because of his perception of the fans theory. Not because of the fans, but a whole host of things. Like player power, ill-discipline. A prime example of this kind of approach could be the Xmas with family thing which he tried to ban. I think it's a legitimate theory although like you, it doesn't explain poor tactics for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Or maybe Allardyce isn't the tactical genius he would like us to believe he is. We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) yet it's hard to think of a time when we looked like a good, well-balanced outfit. I'm not saying sack him now by any means, I just don't buy into this trying too hard because of his perception of the fans theory. Well obviously the brunt of where he's failed lies with his tactical decisions and team lineups, but this theory on perception of fans adds to how he ended up in this position in the first place. I don't think it's solely down to trying too hard, he has made the wrong decisions and he has to stand by that failure. It also explains why he isn't the only manager that has failed. I just think it's a lame excuse for perplexing tactical decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 We must have played at least four different formations and the side has been chopped and changed loads (not all down to injuries by any means) Something that jerks me, how many times have we played the same team back to back? Once, to memory. Would have to check. We played the same team back to back between Bolton (a) Villa (h) and Boro (a) Then Arsenal (h), Birmingham (h) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 the reason managers have failed, is because they are crap managers, allardyce is out of his depth and must be sacked asap before we get dragged into relegation dog fightr allardyce only success was to get bolton into the top 8 look at his cup record, absyml, i wonder why cos he can't put his containment tactics into cup matches, as u need a result in the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 football is a very simple game, made complex by bad managers like allardyce the good managers i.e. wenger, ferguson play it very simple Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Very good. Full of common sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 As an aside, any successful manager needs to be his own man and stick to what he believes is right. I know that's hard but probably the only people in football more fickle than the fans are the press. The latter also have a vested interest in shit-stirring and if listen to any of them too much you'll lose what made you what you are in the first place, i.e. your own ideas, theories and tactics. I'm not saying you can't listen to advice etc. but I think you need to be an especially strong character to manage a club like ours. Perversely I think this can also work both ways though and a strong character like Allardyce may stick with something that isn't really working, like N'Zogbia at left-back (he's weak defensively imo) because he doesn't want to be seen as weak and pandering to the fans. I know that's probably a bit contradictory there but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 As an aside, any successful manager needs to be his own man and stick to what he believes is right. I know that's hard but probably the only people in football more fickle than the fans are the press. The latter also have a vested interest in shit-stirring and if listen to any of them too much you'll lose what made you what you are in the first place, i.e. your own ideas, theories and tactics. I'm not saying you can't listen to advice etc. but I think you need to be an especially strong character to manage a club like ours. Perversely I think this can also work both ways though and a strong character like Allardyce may stick with something that isn't really working, like N'Zogbia at left-back (he's weak defensively imo) because he doesn't want to be seen as weak and pandering to the fans. I know that's probably a bit contradictory there but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I can agree with that aye, we all know he's stubborn and arrogant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 football is a very simple game, made complex by bad managers like allardyce the good managers i.e. wenger, ferguson play it very simple I don't think it's quite as easy as you're making out however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 being arrogant when ur successful is good thing in a manager when we are playing crap, being arrogant towards the fans it can only go one way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 As an aside, any successful manager needs to be his own man and stick to what he believes is right. I know that's hard but probably the only people in football more fickle than the fans are the press. The latter also have a vested interest in s***-stirring and if listen to any of them too much you'll lose what made you what you are in the first place, i.e. your own ideas, theories and tactics. I'm not saying you can't listen to advice etc. but I think you need to be an especially strong character to manage a club like ours. Perversely I think this can also work both ways though and a strong character like Allardyce may stick with something that isn't really working, like N'Zogbia at left-back (he's weak defensively imo) because he doesn't want to be seen as weak and pandering to the fans. I know that's probably a bit contradictory there but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I can agree with that aye, we all know he's stubborn and arrogant. Understatement of the century Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I did try and warn everyone. Funny thing is, this is nowt all this man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I did try and warn everyone. Funny thing is, this is nowt all this man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Very good article imo. Is he a Newcastle fan? Charlton Athletic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I was livid when i read that Times article the day after boxing day. The hangover didnt help like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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