Right club, right job, right time for the club, right manager. But...

[biggs]

Totally disagree with this 'He's one match away from' thing.

 

I tend to the incremental nature of it; that is one bad performance after another bad performance and so on on BUT we were canny in the first half last night.

 

I wasn't and am still not convinced but he's got my support.

 

 

 

I don't mean he has one game literally, I mean if we get knocked out of the FA Cup, that'll be him gone whether it's after that or in May, there will be no turning back for him from that point on. I honestly believe his only way out of this would be to win the FA Cup. That's the only thing he could give the new owner, Chairman and fans as a peace offering to bide himself the time he clearly craves and needs.

totally disagree a good run in the cup and say getting beat in the semis would be a smokescreen for how utterly s*** we have been in the league up to now and will take the pressure off him as long as we dont get sucked too far down.

[merlin]

Maybe he spent too long at Bolton and after 8 years, he is finding it much harder to adapt to a complete new environment than he had expected.  Also, I think he is struggling with the press scrutiny and although he has friends in the press, there are others who do not like him and are just going to be mischief-making for the sake of it.  At Bolton, he was at one of the lesser clubs in the Greater Manchester area where most of the focus would have been on Man Utd and City.  Every decision that he now makes is being discussed to the nth degree by the press and supporters where as before, few would have taken much notice.

 

I am disappointed though as I expected so much more from him.  I am not saying I expected us to be near the top of the table but I did expect to see our old failings disappear like losing at places like Wigan.  I also thought that with a new board, backroom staff and many new players (who had mostly come from fairly successful clubs) that there would be a new attitude on the pitch so I just cannot understand why it is the same old Newcastle.  I also heard so much about his man-management skills and again he has disappointed because he seems to be alienating the players so much.  Blaming them in public, dropping them as soon as they make a mistake, changing the team every week etc - I think has contributed to their lack of confidence.  Yet former players have had nothing but good words about him.

 

I just can't make sense of it.  I was never a fan but I expected us to be a competent team showing gradual improvement but yet again a manager starts to unravel before our eyes at this club.

 

This is an excellent summing-up of what is wrong...well said.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I think HTT giving him the vote of no confidence could be the turning point much like when he came out and said Souness must have time. Things can only get better from here on in.

[Guest kevin carrs gloves]

I agree with the timing problem, but not because of not having a "football break". The reason is the takeover by Ashley.

 

Let's face it. Without the takeover, everyone will be a lot more patient with Sam's performance and willing to give him 2 seasons for trying.

And now people just think "oh yea we got the money and let's see Man City, money can bring instant success, then why wait for that?"

While the players may think "he is not the one Ashley want...probably he has no future, then why should I pay 100% effort?"

 

The level of patience towards the manager, either from the fans and from the players, are the lowest I have ever seen for any EPL teams. This is the reason why Sam fails to make it. If our next appointment is even worse than Roeder/Souness (and I'm sure not much of us will really expect a bad manager up next), the fans must be blamed for that and the club deserves another dark age.

 

What complete and utter tosh. Without the takeover we would all be hating FS still and BSA would be his man and we would hate him more. The reason we are impatient is because we have had to put up with absolute dross on the field for way too long whilst pumping more money into this club than a hell of a lot of other clubs. We had to put up with the biggest arsehole of a chairman the world has ever known (constantly shitting on the fans and publicly bragging about it) and watch the fat man hire the worst managers for the job. BSA was a good choice to improve our club in the way it is run but we need as a club on the pitch someone with creative flair who can get the best out of whatever players he has and get them attacking. And for gods sake can we get a manager who can teach our players to keep possession I am sick of screaming at them every time they give it up. This has been happening since the last year and a half of SBR.

[merlin]

I agree with the timing problem, but not because of not having a "football break". The reason is the takeover by Ashley.

 

Let's face it. Without the takeover, everyone will be a lot more patient with Sam's performance and willing to give him 2 seasons for trying.

And now people just think "oh yea we got the money and let's see Man City, money can bring instant success, then why wait for that?"

While the players may think "he is not the one Ashley want...probably he has no future, then why should I pay 100% effort?"

 

The level of patience towards the manager, either from the fans and from the players, are the lowest I have ever seen for any EPL teams. This is the reason why Sam fails to make it. If our next appointment is even worse than Roeder/Souness (and I'm sure not much of us will really expect a bad manager up next), the fans must be blamed for that and the club deserves another dark age.

 

What complete and utter tosh. Without the takeover we would all be hating FS still and BSA would be his man and we would hate him more. The reason we are impatient is because we have had to put up with absolute dross on the field for way too long whilst pumping more money into this club than a hell of a lot of other clubs. We had to put up with the biggest arsehole of a chairman the world has ever known (constantly shitting on the fans and publicly bragging about it) and watch the fat man hire the worst managers for the job. BSA was a good choice to improve our club in the way it is run but we need as a club on the pitch someone with creative flair who can get the best out of whatever players he has and get them attacking. And for gods sake can we get a manager who can teach our players to keep possession I am sick of screaming at them every time they give it up. This has been happening since the last year and a half of SBR.

 

Totally agree with this ..

[Guest Brazilianbob]

I am sure i remember when he left Bolton it was supposedly for a break from football then he gets offered  a big challenge in us that he felt he could do but mentally he may have still wanted the break. Only time will tell I voted to loose him now but agree with HTT's comment in a previous thread that it would have to be for someone that was a mark improvement and not just someone of equal ability, we are somewhat a poison challace and need a special sort of manager to turn it round.

 

He left Bolton at age 52 saying he was going to retire at age 55 no matter what, we came along and offered him his 3 year contract at £3m a year , pension sorted!  Takes the job thinking it will be a doddle and falls flat on his face.

[Guest teepee]

i still think that he'd be able to improve us over roeder/souness - but top 4 seems a long long way off

 

i kinda like sam, but i do have a couple of concerns about him after joining us:

 

- constant shifting formation and line up

 

- his buying of players, only cacapa and beye seems good enough to me right now

 

- him insisting on taking a "carefull" approach that has backfired too many times. we dont have a creative cm, so use two wingers at least!

[Guest SeattleToon]

For me though the big reason why we haven't done well this season is simply because our players are so average and they are now being found out! Even if we had a manager playing the "Newcastle way" we still would not have done much better than what we are doing now. 

 

MacPhisto hit it right on the head. The reason we suck is because our players suck, not because of the manager. When your central midfield consists of Butt, Geremi, and an out of position Alan Smith, of course you are going to end up with lousy results. Those three are the spine of the team, and all three are average players at best, and were discarded by top four clubs who realized this. Emre is our only creative player in the middle of the pitch, and he rarely gets a full 90 minutes.

 

Ashley needs to free up some money this summer so that we can actually get some quality in the center of the pitch. Otherwise, next year will be just more of the same.

[Lazy]

I used to be spotty when I was younger, and when I went to the doctor for pills the doctor said  "Because this your first time on these pills, your skin will probably get worse before it gets better, until your body has time to get used to them". I think the same thing is happening here

 

I honestly believe we have to stick with him.

[Lazy]

For me though the big reason why we haven't done well this season is simply because our players are so average and they are now being found out! Even if we had a manager playing the "Newcastle way" we still would not have done much better than what we are doing now. 

 

MacPhisto hit it right on the head. The reason we suck is because our players suck, not because of the manager. When your central midfield consists of Butt, Geremi, and an out of position Alan Smith, of course you are going to end up with lousy results. Those three are the spine of the team, and all three are average players at best, and were discarded by top four clubs who realized this. Emre is our only creative player in the middle of the pitch, and he rarely gets a full 90 minutes.

 

Ashley needs to free up some money this summer so that we can actually get some quality in the center of the pitch. Otherwise, next year will be just more of the same.

 

Yeah but to be fair to the Allardyce haters, Allardyce pretty much bought that midfield, and it's him that's not giving Emre a full 90 minutes.

[Guest Dev]

For me though the big reason why we haven't done well this season is simply because our players are so average and they are now being found out! Even if we had a manager playing the "Newcastle way" we still would not have done much better than what we are doing now. 

 

MacPhisto hit it right on the head. The reason we suck is because our players suck, not because of the manager. When your central midfield consists of Butt, Geremi, and an out of position Alan Smith, of course you are going to end up with lousy results. Those three are the spine of the team, and all three are average players at best, and were discarded by top four clubs who realized this. Emre is our only creative player in the middle of the pitch, and he rarely gets a full 90 minutes.

 

Ashley needs to free up some money this summer so that we can actually get some quality in the center of the pitch. Otherwise, next year will be just more of the same.

 

Yeah but to be fair to the Allardyce haters, Allardyce pretty much bought that midfield, and it's him that's not giving Emre a full 90 minutes.

 

Indeed.

 

How can people say Sam 'needs more money' and can't be expected to do well with the midfield he has?

 

Sam BOUGHT Geremi, Barton and Smith.

 

Sam knocked back a good offer from Villa for Milner.

 

Those 4 have started pretty regularly under Sam.

 

The one standout midfielder this season was Zoggy and Sam fixed that up proper by demoting him to LB. Sam of course didn't buy him.

 

Now I don't necessarily think those three players are shit but they certainely have been this year. That is what happens when you play blokes out of position and put them back in the squad well before they are ready after injury.

 

Maybe HTT is right and BSA is simply burnt out and that is why he's making such elementary blunders.

[mrmojorisin75]

I'll worry considerably for him if we were lose to Stoke, but i genuinely don't believe Mort has someone else lined up, and i don't believe Mort wants to sack Sam.

 

Using hindsight, it's a realistic theory that you've got, HTT. Maybe it was too soon.

 

I've still got faith though. Just let this season trundle along. There's neeone else at the moment and we could prosper from using patience. [/broken record]

 

something i find interesting in this current climate is the role of mort/ashley...they're not "football people" in the sense that they've never owned/ran clubs before and as a result they seem to be taking a non-football view of the current situation and taking a large account our recent hire and fire policy under shepherd, it's almost like they won't repeat his mistakes

 

the question is this: are they right this time?  is allardyce the man that NEEDS sacking when others didn't or is he the man that needs the time when others didn't?

 

if they're wrong we'll be playing stoke again next season in the championship

[NUFC06]

I'll worry considerably for him if we were lose to Stoke, but i genuinely don't believe Mort has someone else lined up, and i don't believe Mort wants to sack Sam.

 

Using hindsight, it's a realistic theory that you've got, HTT. Maybe it was too soon.

 

I've still got faith though. Just let this season trundle along. There's neeone else at the moment and we could prosper from using patience. [/broken record]

 

something i find interesting in this current climate is the role of mort/ashley...they're not "football people" in the sense that they've never owned/ran clubs before and as a result they seem to be taking a non-football view of the current situation and taking a large account our recent hire and fire policy under shepherd, it's almost like they won't repeat his mistakes

 

the question is this: are they right this time?  is allardyce the man that NEEDS sacking when others didn't or is he the man that needs the time when others didn't?

 

if they're wrong we'll be playing stoke again next season in the championship

 

 

I think he is.

The performance against the likes of Wigan Derby and Reading were just shocking.

I mean the manner of this defeats its just not acceptable.

If we lose some games but we showed some spirit and good football i dont mind but with Allardyce i think we are seeing the same football when we played under Souness and Roeder

 

The big head must go now or in the summer for sure.

 

 

[NG32]

is allardyce the man that NEEDS sacking

 

NO, 2 seasons or at least let him get his players in and his system functioning.  Then we can judge him.

 

SBR sacked at an inappropriate time.

Souness needed sacked

Roeder needed sacked

Ruud resinged

 

Cant remember what happend to Kenny, heard rumour he was sacked, heard rumours he quit.

 

Keegan quit as the club had changed.

 

 

[Guest Brewcastle]

Right club, right job, right time for the club, right manager.

But...

NO

YES, for now.

NO,NO,NO

he is not the right manager for Newcastle United Football Club

He could have been. But the track he've dropped into is to tight for NUFC (Unbelieveable with his big staff ).

Him self and Mr. Sheperd is responsible for the expectations and pressure he's under now. This jippo with entering SJP in helicopter like an angel of salvation did throw in optimism for the club in a turbulent period. But like a Christmas-present, many of us got disappointed during the unpack.....

[BONTEMPI]

After having a long hard think about it I'm going to stick behind Sam.

 

Granted the performance of the team is 100% shite and if Shepherd was still here he'd have gone about 3 games ago,But until the end of the season or the start of the next if we are still looking a total shambles he should go then.

 

It's time for Ashley to show his hand as in giving him enough money this January to try and lift the squad with some much needed creative players, if not I can't see things improving at all this season.

 

We all knew the shortfalls of selling Dyer and Solano with no direct replacements and now were paying for it.

 

 

[Guest Bolton Zulu]

I've just read this thread and some of the comments make me smile.

 

Firstly let's lay the ghost about Allardyce saying that he wanted a break from football after leaving Bolton. That was probably a story cooked up between his agent and your erstwhile chairman to avoid paying Bolton for the balance of his contract. It worked, if that was the intention.

 

Now let's examine the views that Allardyce is not up to managing "a big club like Newcastle United " You are not a "big club" guys. You are an average mid-table Premier League club. You happen to have a fantastic, loyal and devoted fan base who would happily watch the grass grow at SJP. Your fan base has been treated shamefully by your board for over thirty years. If trophies were doled out on the basis of the quality of the fan base then you would be one of the top three clubs in the PL every year. Unfortunately you haven't won anything significant since Hyde Park was a plant pot.

 

Allardyce was your best shot last year. Your board had been trailing him for over three years and they finally got their man. As a Bolton fan, and blessed with hindsight, I feel that he probably did not get over the shock of losing out on the England job to that red haired grinning loon from Smog City. Performances at Bolton towards the end of his career there were somewhat uninspired. He had probably taken us as far as he could anyway.

 

The point is whoever you take on as manager must be given three years to sort out the deep faults in your club. Give Allardyce three years and he will have you in the top six, regularly. The same goes for any top European manager you bring in. It will not happen in a season.

 

And, as for bringing in Alan Shearer? Get a grip! It would be an unmitigated disaster.

[Chris Banaloona]

I've just read this thread and some of the comments make me smile.

 

Firstly let's lay the ghost about Allardyce saying that he wanted a break from football after leaving Bolton. That was probably a story cooked up between his agent and your erstwhile chairman to avoid paying Bolton for the balance of his contract. It worked, if that was the intention.

 

Now let's examine the views that Allardyce is not up to managing "a big club like Newcastle United " You are not a "big club" guys. You are an average mid-table Premier League club. You happen to have a fantastic, loyal and devoted fan base who would happily watch the grass grow at SJP. Your fan base has been treated shamefully by your board for over thirty years. If trophies were doled out on the basis of the quality of the fan base then you would be one of the top three clubs in the PL every year. Unfortunately you haven't won anything significant since Hyde Park was a plant pot.

 

Allardyce was your best shot last year. Your board had been trailing him for over three years and they finally got their man. As a Bolton fan, and blessed with hindsight, I feel that he probably did not get over the shock of losing out on the England job to that red haired grinning loon from Smog City. Performances at Bolton towards the end of his career there were somewhat uninspired. He had probably taken us as far as he could anyway.

 

The point is whoever you take on as manager must be given three years to sort out the deep faults in your club. Give Allardyce three years and he will have you in the top six, regularly. The same goes for any top European manager you bring in. It will not happen in a season.

 

And, as for bringing in Alan Shearer? Get a grip! It would be an unmitigated disaster.

 

What you have said is 100% right... we are a mid table side with a fan base to rival the top clubs. Its no good sacking manager after manager because we are not in the top 6 straight away or playing fluently straight away. If we were that good Allardyce would not have been required to be appointed in the 1st place. Lets give the guy the length of his contract and see what happens, I say right off this season because lets face it if we do sack him it will be a right off anyway. He has made some mistakes in his short time here but hasnt Arsene Wenger at Arsenal, Sir Alex at Man Yoo and Rafa at Liverpool?? Some of his signing leave a lot to be desired but give the bloke some slack and let him get on with it. After all Sir Alex needed 5yrs at Man Yoo before winning the FA Cup never mind the league and he certainly bought some dross in that 5yrs (Mike Phelan anyone??).

[Northern Monkey]

For me though the big reason why we haven't done well this season is simply because our players are so average and they are now being found out! Even if we had a manager playing the "Newcastle way" we still would not have done much better than what we are doing now. 

 

MacPhisto hit it right on the head. The reason we suck is because our players suck, not because of the manager. When your central midfield consists of Butt, Geremi, and an out of position Alan Smith, of course you are going to end up with lousy results. Those three are the spine of the team, and all three are average players at best, and were discarded by top four clubs who realized this. Emre is our only creative player in the middle of the pitch, and he rarely gets a full 90 minutes.

 

Ashley needs to free up some money this summer so that we can actually get some quality in the center of the pitch. Otherwise, next year will be just more of the same.

 

Who bought Smith, Geremi and Barton (who have all been shit)?

Who chooses the players?

Who chooses the formation?

Who chooses the tactics?

Who chooses not to play Emre?

Who chose to spend £25m on 9 players, only 2 of whom are any good?

 

Get to fuck, Allardyce, you're an idiot.

[Northern Monkey]

After having a long hard think about it I'm going to stick behind Sam.

 

Granted the performance of the team is 100% shite and if Shepherd was still here he'd have gone about 3 games ago,But until the end of the season or the start of the next if we are still looking a total shambles he should go then.

 

It's time for Ashley to show his hand as in giving him enough money this January to try and lift the squad with some much needed creative players, if not I can't see things improving at all this season.

 

We all knew the shortfalls of selling Dyer and Solano with no direct replacements and now were paying for it.

 

 

 

Nobby was nearly past it, and Dyer was over-rated and of no real value to the team.

 

YES, we need to stick with a manager, yadda yadda....but sticking with the WRONG one is fucking lunacy.

[ToonMonty]

 

Nobby was nearly past it, and Dyer was over-rated and of no real value to the team.

 

 

Total agreement about Dyer but Solano has been behind a lot of good play recently and they are missing him whilst injured at the minute

[ToonMonty]

I've just read this thread and some of the comments make me smile.

 

Firstly let's lay the ghost about Allardyce saying that he wanted a break from football after leaving Bolton. That was probably a story cooked up between his agent and your erstwhile chairman to avoid paying Bolton for the balance of his contract. It worked, if that was the intention.

 

Now let's examine the views that Allardyce is not up to managing "a big club like Newcastle United " You are not a "big club" guys. You are an average mid-table Premier League club. You happen to have a fantastic, loyal and devoted fan base who would happily watch the grass grow at SJP. Your fan base has been treated shamefully by your board for over thirty years. If trophies were doled out on the basis of the quality of the fan base then you would be one of the top three clubs in the PL every year. Unfortunately you haven't won anything significant since Hyde Park was a plant pot.

 

Allardyce was your best shot last year. Your board had been trailing him for over three years and they finally got their man. As a Bolton fan, and blessed with hindsight, I feel that he probably did not get over the shock of losing out on the England job to that red haired grinning loon from Smog City. Performances at Bolton towards the end of his career there were somewhat uninspired. He had probably taken us as far as he could anyway.

 

The point is whoever you take on as manager must be given three years to sort out the deep faults in your club. Give Allardyce three years and he will have you in the top six, regularly. The same goes for any top European manager you bring in. It will not happen in a season.

 

And, as for bringing in Alan Shearer? Get a grip! It would be an unmitigated disaster.

 

I agree with a lot of this but there is a lot more intensity surrounding Newcastle than Bolton, which causes the big club claims etc and does increase pressure on players and staff .....

 

 

 

 

and to be honest we're great at over top reactions so stuff

[BONTEMPI]

After having a long hard think about it I'm going to stick behind Sam.

 

Granted the performance of the team is 100% s**** and if Shepherd was still here he'd have gone about 3 games ago,But until the end of the season or the start of the next if we are still looking a total shambles he should go then.

 

It's time for Ashley to show his hand as in giving him enough money this January to try and lift the squad with some much needed creative players, if not I can't see things improving at all this season.

 

We all knew the shortfalls of selling Dyer and Solano with no direct replacements and now were paying for it.

 

 

 

Nobby was nearly past it, and Dyer was over-rated and of no real value to the team.

 

YES, we need to stick with a manager, yadda yadda....but sticking with the WRONG one is f****** lunacy.

 

Is that why Nobby was instrumental in west ham beating man u recently?

 

I was all for sacking him from the last few results but it's not going to achieve anything as we ain't going to qualify for europe no matter who comes in!  So where best sticking with him till the end of the season

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Nobby wanted to go

[Guest Knightrider]

This Thread = HTT realizing that Big Sam aint gunna cut-it.

 

No chance, this kid's not for turning. Just trying to make sense of things. Give Big Sam time and money and he'll turn us around regardless of what's happened between August and now on the pitch.