No signings = relegation?

[NE5]

He spent 200m and he has an asset worth at least 200m. Not exactly the Rowntree foundation.

 

 

Aye, he's put the money where it makes business sense.

 

Drastic missing of point.

 

If we go down, he wasted all of that money as the value of the club will drop enormously.

 

basic stuff that shouldn't need to be explained

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Sorry like HF but I love KK and there simply hasn't been a drastic improvement in performances. There have been some encouraging signs but some performances, albeit against the very best sides in the league have been shocking and at least as bad as under Allardyce. Bolton and Boro at home didn't constitute dramatic improvements either. There are mitigating circumstances obviously.

 

the change in performances, and I agree they haven't been "drastic" but they HAVE been a canny bit better, have convinced me that KK will do the job again, providing he has the backing of the board and the time to do it.

 

The spirit on saturday on the back of the last few weeks was excellent, as was the determination to try and force the game, apply pressure etc all Keegans methods. There is no doubt that we lack the quality to make these tactics really count, but it IS the way to play if you are aiming for success, and he's doing it already.

 

This is the big question though. There is a case for playing to strengths, many teams recognise they don't have the ability to play an open game and so play a tighter game to get the points. We maybe could be doing this but it isn't Keegans way. The "tactical nous" people may jump on this and they do have a point in the current situation. Whatever happens I'm backing Keegan, because with support of his board, he'll leave us better off than where he found us and if the unthinkable happens I won't blame him, everything we have as a club now is down to him and he deserves the slack to get on with restoring the club back to where he left it the last time.

 

 

 

Very sensible post. I too have see enough from KK to suggest the old magic can be reborn. Providing the two things you mention happen, A) We beat the drop and B) He gets the correct funds.

 

agree that staying up plus keegan getting some money to spend will see us improve a lot next season

 

to me he's started doing what we all were crying out for since souness really...play a settled simple formation, players in the right positions, and get them passing the ball better, nothing complicated...

 

put better players in the team doing the same things and we'll improve - we'll always be flawed under keegan 'cause he simply doesn't have a clue how to make defenders defend though, so away day wins will be few and far between

[Happy Face]

We played well yet won none? Great. No players in mid who can run with the ball, or shoot, or even fuking pass, you think someone who can do that, coming to a new club and wanting to prove a point might just help in tight games like that. In the games you mentioned there's simply nothing we could have done, and you know it. A whole new team would be needed, and that can be done nexct summer, but right now we need to win the winnable games, a few changes in player personal would have got us closer to doing that.

 

Who screams to join a club? You are simply talking out of your arse now. Player A wants to join NUFC so he shouts from the rooftops he want the move. It doesn't happen, where does that leave him? Jesus fuking wept man, have a word with yourself.

 

As for the name calling, give it a rest, fukwit, numb-nuts, if that's what you have to resort to then you really are, well, i'm not going down that road, no need.

 

Seems to me people want to whine about the situation for the sake of whining.

 

Since Keegan arrived there's been a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion.  People whining have no suggestions who we should have signed .  The people we approached goes to show how loathe players are to come.

 

If you blame Keegan and the fortnight he had with an open window when he arrived for our current position rather than Allardyce and the 8 months he took to build the most tepid team I've seen at St James', you're a moron.

 

I'm not though am i?

 

You are one fuked up muppet today.

 

 

 

erm, yeah, you are....

 

in reality because we signed no one were in a relegation fight.

 

 

I'm not blaming KK for the current situation of the club, i'm asking why no one was signed to help stay away from a relegation fight.

 

We are in a relegation fight, we didn't sign anyone to help us out, if we did we would stand a better chance, unless we simply cannot trust KK to find quality players that is. I do think there has been marginal improvements no matter what the stats say, but those games at home against beatable teams could have turned into wins with new players as we know its going to be tough with the current crop.

 

Even KK himself said the club needed a boost from signing a player or two, his words not mine, i agree with them, you don't.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Our record of signing players is so bad that people on here advocate selling every memeber of the squad and starting from scratch.

 

I think we've done exactly the right thing (the only option left open really) taking an enforced step back, given that the quality players we were chasing turned us down.  Take stock of who fights to get us out of this and who doesn't step up, then rebuild on that next season.

 

You don't blame Keegan but ask why no-one was signed.  It's simply that the players he went after wouldn't come.  Can't we accept that and move on?

[NE5]

its better to pay off the debt and go down then to invest in players and go down.

 

No quality players wanted to come.

 

Are you lot blind?

 

you are Gordon McKeag and Lord Westwood rolled into one

 

 

[Dokko]

You're the one saying he'd transform our results tbf.

 

Did I?

 

 

 

Touché.

 

Why else are you arguing about him then?

 

I'm not arguing about anything. Just putting peoples stupid ideas about him in to touch.

 

Knocking a young lad for scoring only one goal in the league, when £60m+ worth of Manu talent can't do any better is fuking thick imo.

 

Barnes getting NUFC grief and he hasn't even become a toon player, its just amazing, it really is.

 

People aren't knocking him for being a young lad, they're knocking him because he's been brought up in this thread as someone we should have signed.

 

i think he was actually brought up as one of the two players we know we bid for, therefore it's safe to assume we wanted to sign him

 

there are obviously better midfielders throughout europe and the world, he's just the one we know keegan asked for

 

 

Which is a fair point.

 

KK thought he saw something in him, but for some reason we offered daft money, and guess what, its was greeted with a big KO.

 

Some defended the club by saying we were going for him on the cheap and would go back, but we didn't. I just do not get what's going on with that one, which makes the Barnes situation even more bitter for myself. He should have and could have been ours for relatively cheap money. It cost twice as much to sack SA FFS.

 

i've not seen that much of barnes but the parrells with dyer work on almost every level...when we paid 6m for dyer all those years ago he'd only played in the first division but excelled there, same as barnes, and there's nothing to suggest he'd not have struggled with ipswich when they were promoted a la barnes

 

we thought 6m on a fast, young player with potential was worth it then, why not now?

 

They only wanted £4m IIRC. We bid £2m

 

He's worth £4m anyday, its not a risk, he's 19 and would easily full fill £4m worth of potential.

 

I still cannot get my head around it. Billionaire owner being a cheap cunt in times of desperation. Crazy.

 

spot on.

 

There is no way that Keegan didn't come in and immediately see 2 or 3 players that he would have liked to have signed that he knew would improve the team and avoid this mess that we are now heading towards.

 

 

 

 

 

Board, KK, both?

 

Whoever is to blame will be very lucky to avoid the most serious of consequences for not strengthening a weak team in the winter window.

 

What pisses me off is we knew the ANC was on, and we were to lose some good talent and we sat and did nothing to cover our arses.

 

Fuk me, its a joke, and that's not KK's fault, plans should have been made for a couple of loans or something similar to cover these players.

 

Thinking about it, he probably had targets but he doubted him own judgement, didn't want to take a risk, but you've got to takes some risks in football or you'll never go anywhere. Calculated? Barnes for £4m would be calculated enough. (just one example, i'm not saying he's superman and better than Messi and would have tonked Manu by himself)

[Dokko]

We played well yet won none? Great. No players in mid who can run with the ball, or shoot, or even fuking pass, you think someone who can do that, coming to a new club and wanting to prove a point might just help in tight games like that. In the games you mentioned there's simply nothing we could have done, and you know it. A whole new team would be needed, and that can be done nexct summer, but right now we need to win the winnable games, a few changes in player personal would have got us closer to doing that.

 

Who screams to join a club? You are simply talking out of your arse now. Player A wants to join NUFC so he shouts from the rooftops he want the move. It doesn't happen, where does that leave him? Jesus fuking wept man, have a word with yourself.

 

As for the name calling, give it a rest, fukwit, numb-nuts, if that's what you have to resort to then you really are, well, i'm not going down that road, no need.

 

Seems to me people want to whine about the situation for the sake of whining.

 

Since Keegan arrived there's been a drastic improvement in tactics, performances and passion.  People whining have no suggestions who we should have signed .  The people we approached goes to show how loathe players are to come.

 

If you blame Keegan and the fortnight he had with an open window when he arrived for our current position rather than Allardyce and the 8 months he took to build the most tepid team I've seen at St James', you're a moron.

 

I'm not though am i?

 

You are one fuked up muppet today.

 

 

 

erm, yeah, you are....

 

in reality because we signed no one were in a relegation fight.

 

 

I'm not blaming KK for the current situation of the club, i'm asking why no one was signed to help stay away from a relegation fight.

 

We are in a relegation fight, we didn't sign anyone to help us out, if we did we would stand a better chance, unless we simply cannot trust KK to find quality players that is. I do think there has been marginal improvements no matter what the stats say, but those games at home against beatable teams could have turned into wins with new players as we know its going to be tough with the current crop.

 

Even KK himself said the club needed a boost from signing a player or two, his words not mine, i agree with them, you don't.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Our record of signing players is so bad that people on here advocate selling every memeber of the squad and starting from scratch.

 

I think we've done exactly the right thing (the only option left open really) taking an enforced step back, given that the quality players we were chasing turned us down.  Take stock of who fights to get us out of this and who doesn't step up, then rebuild on that next season.

 

You don't blame Keegan but ask why no-one was signed.  It's simply that the players he went after wouldn't come.  Can't we accept that and move on?

 

If you want, but Barnes for £4m would have come.

 

Is it KK's fault we didn't up the bid or the board?

 

This is a public example, and why its being used, what about other bids we went in for, did we stay cheap, did KK not trust himself? Whatever, its certainly had a negative effect on the remainder of the season, signings would have helped KK out, and i think spending £10m or so on a couple of decent attacking mids would have seen us take at leas 4 more points in the games already played and looking at a much rosier seasons end.

 

 

[Guest alex]

I think arguing about Barnes completely misses the point because I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have made much, if any, difference. I'd be surprised if he'd started a match yet in all honesty.

[Dokko]

I think arguing about Barnes completely misses the point because I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have made much, if any, difference. I'd be surprised if he'd started a match yet in all honesty.

 

Nice to have someone on the bench?

 

Like i said, Barnes is being used as an example as we know it was close to happening as it went public.

 

I could pick random names out of the hat but that would be a bit pointless.

 

 

[Happy Face]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

[Guest LucaAltieri]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

 

 

I like the new attitude of not getting mugged by other teams over transfer fees. If it means we miss out on a few so-so targets then so be it.

[NE5]

Sorry like HF but I love KK and there simply hasn't been a drastic improvement in performances. There have been some encouraging signs but some performances, albeit against the very best sides in the league have been shocking and at least as bad as under Allardyce. Bolton and Boro at home didn't constitute dramatic improvements either. There are mitigating circumstances obviously.

 

the change in performances, and I agree they haven't been "drastic" but they HAVE been a canny bit better, have convinced me that KK will do the job again, providing he has the backing of the board and the time to do it.

 

The spirit on saturday on the back of the last few weeks was excellent, as was the determination to try and force the game, apply pressure etc all Keegans methods. There is no doubt that we lack the quality to make these tactics really count, but it IS the way to play if you are aiming for success, and he's doing it already.

 

This is the big question though. There is a case for playing to strengths, many teams recognise they don't have the ability to play an open game and so play a tighter game to get the points. We maybe could be doing this but it isn't Keegans way. The "tactical nous" people may jump on this and they do have a point in the current situation. Whatever happens I'm backing Keegan, because with support of his board, he'll leave us better off than where he found us and if the unthinkable happens I won't blame him, everything we have as a club now is down to him and he deserves the slack to get on with restoring the club back to where he left it the last time.

 

 

Aye and in particular we'll go for it in games, something Allardyce didn't do and led to us throwing points away against the likes of Derby, Wigan, Reading and so on - i.e. given our pourous defence 'going for it' is playing to our strengths imo.

 

fair point. But my guess is scoring the first goal and getting that first win may change the outlook slightly as I don't think the defenders are that bad to be honest. Its more a pressure situation, with no real teeth, that we are in.

 

Edit:

 

Reference the earlier post from HF [i think apologies if it isn't] about people not naming players, I said at the time we should try to buy David Bentley. Money talks. If we can't buy players from the likes of Blackburn then it says a lot. Pay the rate, what would it be, 10m quid ? 12m quid ? So what. Avoiding relegation is worth how much ? A player with an escalating value is worth how much ?

 

 

[Dokko]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

 

I thought he was worth that in the Championship last season, now they are in the prem, in the winter window £4m is nowt.

 

What English talent with potential can you get for £4m? Prices are crazy these days, £4m is nothing really, couldn't even pay Owen for a year.

 

 

 

 

[Happy Face]

I think arguing about Barnes completely misses the point because I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have made much, if any, difference. I'd be surprised if he'd started a match yet in all honesty.

 

Nice to have someone on the bench?

 

Like i said, Barnes is being used as an example as we know it was close to happening as it went public.

 

I could pick random names out of the hat but that would be a bit pointless.

 

 

 

So you agree, no-one we could've realistically signed would have improved the team in the immediate future.

[Dokko]

I think arguing about Barnes completely misses the point because I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have made much, if any, difference. I'd be surprised if he'd started a match yet in all honesty.

 

Nice to have someone on the bench?

 

Like i said, Barnes is being used as an example as we know it was close to happening as it went public.

 

I could pick random names out of the hat but that would be a bit pointless.

 

 

 

So you agree, no-one we could've realistically signed would have improved the team in the immediate future.

 

Again i never said that.

 

Unless we only went for or looked at Barnes the entire window, then i'd have even more issues with the situation than i do now.

 

I'm simply saying i'm not going to guess targets, there's plenty of players out there that would improve the squad and we could have got realistically had we stumped up some serious cash, but that would be very FM of me.

[Guest alex]

I know what you're saying Leazes. And the defence isn't as bad as it has looked. I just meant that we aren't the sort of side to go away / play at home and soak up pressure. We aren't good enough at defending but primarily we aren't good enough at either keeping possession or breaking quickly (which you need to be to play that sort of style imo). We should just have a go at teams and see what happens. That's no to say be gung-ho and damn the consequences but we should (and will) be more positive in our approach than we were under Allardyce.

[NE5]

You're the one saying he'd transform our results tbf.

 

Did I?

 

 

 

Touché.

 

Why else are you arguing about him then?

 

I'm not arguing about anything. Just putting peoples stupid ideas about him in to touch.

 

Knocking a young lad for scoring only one goal in the league, when £60m+ worth of Manu talent can't do any better is fuking thick imo.

 

Barnes getting NUFC grief and he hasn't even become a toon player, its just amazing, it really is.

 

People aren't knocking him for being a young lad, they're knocking him because he's been brought up in this thread as someone we should have signed.

 

i think he was actually brought up as one of the two players we know we bid for, therefore it's safe to assume we wanted to sign him

 

there are obviously better midfielders throughout europe and the world, he's just the one we know keegan asked for

 

 

Which is a fair point.

 

KK thought he saw something in him, but for some reason we offered daft money, and guess what, its was greeted with a big KO.

 

Some defended the club by saying we were going for him on the cheap and would go back, but we didn't. I just do not get what's going on with that one, which makes the Barnes situation even more bitter for myself. He should have and could have been ours for relatively cheap money. It cost twice as much to sack SA FFS.

 

i've not seen that much of barnes but the parrells with dyer work on almost every level...when we paid 6m for dyer all those years ago he'd only played in the first division but excelled there, same as barnes, and there's nothing to suggest he'd not have struggled with ipswich when they were promoted a la barnes

 

we thought 6m on a fast, young player with potential was worth it then, why not now?

 

They only wanted £4m IIRC. We bid £2m

 

He's worth £4m anyday, its not a risk, he's 19 and would easily full fill £4m worth of potential.

 

I still cannot get my head around it. Billionaire owner being a cheap cunt in times of desperation. Crazy.

 

spot on.

 

There is no way that Keegan didn't come in and immediately see 2 or 3 players that he would have liked to have signed that he knew would improve the team and avoid this mess that we are now heading towards.

 

 

 

 

But (supposing you're right) maybe they wouldn't come and the money was there - i.e. the Woodgate situation.

 

I accept that Woodgate chose Spurs. About to play in a cup final. Guaranteed a place in europe next year. 2 very attractive things for a player who is now 28 and a horrendous injury stricken past. Add the fact he'd been here before. If it were you and it wasn't involving the club you support, what would you have done ?

 

I don't really blame him given all these circumstances.

 

There are other players, mainly forwards and midfield players. You don't just have to look at the players who actually moved to see players we could have at least tried to sign such is the desperation.

 

 

[Happy Face]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

 

I thought he was worth that in the Championship last season, now they are in the prem, in the winter window £4m is nowt.

 

What English talent with potential can you get for £4m? Prices are crazy these days, £4m is nothing really, couldn't even pay Owen for a year.

 

 

 

 

 

Broken a foot since then and only started 11 games this season.

 

Wouldn't be so much against a pay as you play deal like.  We've been a real soft touch on transfers though.

[Dave]

Spurs weren't guaranteed a place in Europe next year before Woodgate went there FWIW.

[Baggio]

Are you blaming Keegan for this, NE5?

[NE5]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

 

 

I like the new attitude of not getting mugged by other teams over transfer fees. If it means we miss out on a few so-so targets then so be it.

 

and if we get relegated ?

 

Like it or not, you have to take risks and everybody pays over the odds sometimes if they are ambitious, and makes mistakes too.

 

 

[NE5]

I know what you're saying Leazes. And the defence isn't as bad as it has looked. I just meant that we aren't the sort of side to go away / play at home and soak up pressure. We aren't good enough at defending but primarily we aren't good enough at either keeping possession or breaking quickly (which you need to be to play that sort of style imo). We should just have a go at teams and see what happens. That's no to say be gung-ho and damn the consequences but we should (and will) be more positive in our approach than we were under Allardyce.

 

the Fulham game is now a must win, to set us up for the REading game. A win over the mackems or an away win on top of those 2 would be enough. As you say Keegans approach is always likely to bring an away win somewhere.

 

We need about 10 points and while it doesn't matter where they come from, these games , and away to Birmingham, are all 6 pointers.

 

 

[Guest alex]

You're the one saying he'd transform our results tbf.

 

Did I?

 

 

 

Touché.

 

Why else are you arguing about him then?

 

I'm not arguing about anything. Just putting peoples stupid ideas about him in to touch.

 

Knocking a young lad for scoring only one goal in the league, when £60m+ worth of Manu talent can't do any better is fuking thick imo.

 

Barnes getting NUFC grief and he hasn't even become a toon player, its just amazing, it really is.

 

People aren't knocking him for being a young lad, they're knocking him because he's been brought up in this thread as someone we should have signed.

 

i think he was actually brought up as one of the two players we know we bid for, therefore it's safe to assume we wanted to sign him

 

there are obviously better midfielders throughout europe and the world, he's just the one we know keegan asked for

 

 

Which is a fair point.

 

KK thought he saw something in him, but for some reason we offered daft money, and guess what, its was greeted with a big KO.

 

Some defended the club by saying we were going for him on the cheap and would go back, but we didn't. I just do not get what's going on with that one, which makes the Barnes situation even more bitter for myself. He should have and could have been ours for relatively cheap money. It cost twice as much to sack SA FFS.

 

i've not seen that much of barnes but the parrells with dyer work on almost every level...when we paid 6m for dyer all those years ago he'd only played in the first division but excelled there, same as barnes, and there's nothing to suggest he'd not have struggled with ipswich when they were promoted a la barnes

 

we thought 6m on a fast, young player with potential was worth it then, why not now?

 

They only wanted £4m IIRC. We bid £2m

 

He's worth £4m anyday, its not a risk, he's 19 and would easily full fill £4m worth of potential.

 

I still cannot get my head around it. Billionaire owner being a cheap cunt in times of desperation. Crazy.

 

spot on.

 

There is no way that Keegan didn't come in and immediately see 2 or 3 players that he would have liked to have signed that he knew would improve the team and avoid this mess that we are now heading towards.

 

 

 

 

But (supposing you're right) maybe they wouldn't come and the money was there - i.e. the Woodgate situation.

 

I accept that Woodgate chose Spurs. About to play in a cup final. Guaranteed a place in europe next year. 2 very attractive things for a player who is now 28 and a horrendous injury stricken past. Add the fact he'd been here before. If it were you and it wasn't involving the club you support, what would you have done ?

 

I don't really blame him given all these circumstances.

 

There are other players, mainly forwards and midfield players. You don't just have to look at the players who actually moved to see players we could have at least tried to sign such is the desperation.

 

 

Yeah but, if I read you right, you're apportioning blame to the new regime, are you not? I.e. suggesting the funds weren't there, yet you accept we went for Woodgate. I just think if KK had players in mind, for one reason or another he couldn't get them to come, especially in January. Now, you may blame the new board in a wider sense (in part at least) for how things panned out, but I think it's unfair to suggest Keegan wasn't backed in January.

[Rich]

Spurs weren't guaranteed a place in Europe next year before Woodgate went there FWIW.

 

Thought they were, being runners-up in the CC at the very worst?

[Guest LucaAltieri]

Is Barnes worth £4M like?

 

I'd raise an eyebrow at giving them £2M.

 

 

I like the new attitude of not getting mugged by other teams over transfer fees. If it means we miss out on a few so-so targets then so be it.

 

and if we get relegated ?

 

Like it or not, you have to take risks and everybody pays over the odds sometimes if they are ambitious, and makes mistakes too.

 

 

 

Fair enough, but for the likes of Barnes?

 

If we'd gone after someone of a higher calibre there might be value in paying over the odds. As it is I think we made the right choice.

[Dave]

Spurs weren't guaranteed a place in Europe next year before Woodgate went there FWIW.

 

Thought they were, being runners-up in the CC at the very worst?

 

There is no place for CC runners-up. It goes to the next place in the league.