Guest Knightrider Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The story goes like this: Tactically inept + England = failure for Kevin Keegan In part because KK himself admitted live on telly he wasn't tactically up to it. I don't buy that myself though, not exactly. I think KK gave an answer he thought was the right answer to give to people in an emotional heat of the moment on the spot reaction, but I don't think he quit because of that reason at all. I don't think he failed because of that reason either. I think he failed essentially because he's a club manager, a players man, a people person who needs to be involved with those he's managing on a daily basis not just to impart his motivational methods, footballing principles and other factors in his makeup, but more so because it's what makes him tick which is actually his main quality. The ability to motivate himself to motivate others, the ability to cheer everyone up and to galvanise people based on his upbeat and pro-active character. The man himself said he never wanted the job, he was head hunted and gave in to pressure from the media and fans all over the country who were actually chanting his name. There are plenty of quotes from him that he found it boring and there are also quotes from players who told of his less than enthusiastic demeanor in training and get-togethers and how he only ever come alive at press conferences and actual match days. A few reporters reported the same back then and since then too. Lets not forget either that at that time he would have still been smarting from failing to land us the title and his whole ending at Newcastle. It hit him hard, very hard. Even today I still don't think he's over it and it's probably one of the reasons why he's back here, to try and exorcise those ghosts by winning something, anything. If he can do that I think he'd retire the happiest man in football. Anyway, I think we've established that there are many many myths surrounding Keegan and while I am of the opinion that yes he isn't tactically astute to be a top international manager, where I disagree with the popular wide held belief is that he bombed for England because he was tactically out of his league. Going back to KK's 'admission' that he wasn't tactically up to it, if he really thought that why is he very defensive today about that area of discussion to such an extent he recently bemoaned the criticism he got for playing Southgate in central-midfield in the Germany game, pointing out that Southgate actually started out as a midfielder playing there many a time for Palace and Villa and that when Terry Venables did something similar, he was a tactical genius. Nah, Keegan failed for England because the results weren't good enough in key matches and it wasn't like it said on the brochure to him, to borrow his own phrase. I.e. the ideal job for him. Looking even deeper, that England side were not the healthiest. Key players were getting on and to be fair to Keegan he tried to freshen it up by bringing in youngsters like Dyer, Gerrard, Heskey etc. He tried to change it but it didn't work. England weren't the victim at his hands ala Steve McLaren. If anything KK was the victim because he's taken a lot of stick for it and in many ways, had his whole image and management style defined for him by others for it. God I hope he does well again here to stick two fingers up to all those who think he's some shite run of the mill manager. For England maybe, but his club record is exceptional and he deserves some respect for that. None more so than from those in our own ranks who seem to have short memories... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Couldn't this have gone in the other thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Couldn't you have just ignored this if you have nowt to say other than to moan? Anyway to answer your question: fuck off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Btw the forum's deed of late, should be pleased I'm on making some new different angle interesting and debatable threads to stop you slashing the wrists this friday night while you're stuck in the hoose all alone while normal people are out drinking and having some kind of life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'm out lad, posting off my phone which you should be able to tell from the black box above my posts. I thought you had walked out on the club anyway after your mate fat Sam had the sack, isn't that what you said? You were having nothing to do with the club again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 An international manager can't be a trial and error man. He's got to be able to think problems and solutions out in his head beforehand because there's little margin for error. One defeat can mean failure. Keegan is a doer more than a thinker and club management suits him better. I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 McClaren won something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 An international manager can't be a trial and error man. He's got to be able to think problems and solutions out in his head beforehand because there's little margin for error. One defeat can mean failure. Keegan is a doer more than a thinker and club management suits him better. I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. First Division man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Boot Boy Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Good OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 An international manager can't be a trial and error man. He's got to be able to think problems and solutions out in his head beforehand because there's little margin for error. One defeat can mean failure. Keegan is a doer more than a thinker and club management suits him better. I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. First Division man. I'd prefer to call it the Second Division. :parky: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Couldn't you have just ignored this if you have nowt to say other than to moan? Anyway to answer your question: fuck off mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I'm out lad, posting off my phone which you should be able to tell from the black box above my posts. I thought you had walked out on the club anyway after your mate fat Sam had the sack, isn't that what you said? You were having nothing to do with the club again? tantrum alert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 An international manager can't be a trial and error man. He's got to be able to think problems and solutions out in his head beforehand because there's little margin for error. One defeat can mean failure. Keegan is a doer more than a thinker and club management suits him better. I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. exceptional in context. He never took over a club that was already winning trophies or even close. Would you rather have Steve McLaren ? Or Vialli ? Or dare I say it Graeme Souness ? Nah. Managers such as Wenger are obviously top notch but as he had a job, we turned to Keegan again. I'm more than happy to have him back and try to complete his unfinished business. There have only been 3 periods in my time supporting Newcastle that I have seen a manager at the club who could have succeeded ie since Joe Harvey and 1969. They were Lee, Cox [despite the constraints they worked under but we won't go into this because nobody even wants to listen never mind try to understand] and best of all Keegan , who in all the 5 years he was here, I never once envied any other set of supporters anywhere else. I know that Dalglish and Gullit reached Cup Finals but the club was still clinging to the team and momentum that Keegan built. Bobby Robson did very well but he's the only one that got close to restoring Keegans momentum and still had remnants of his team at his disposal. Shame he hadn't been younger, but when he was younger he didn't really show much interest in the job but this has been said before. So if he doesn't succeed, nothing will take away the first time. Its well worth a punt, and if its a gamble its no more a gamble than anyone else whoever they would have been. I fancy we will see a spring in his step pretty soon, as soon as we get the first couple of quality players into the club and we start to sense the setting or proper standards again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris P Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Well done lad for sitting down and writing that piece. As for the piss ant comment's from other members of this forum .your quite right to tell them to (in your own word's) FUCK OFF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Well done lad for sitting down and writing that piece. As for the piss ant comment's from other members of this forum .your quite right to tell them to (in your own word's) FUCK OFF is the correct answer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. It is exceptional when looked at within true context. His remit at Newcastle was to first save the club, second gain promotion and 3rd consolidate as a Premier League mainstay. He overachieved. His remit for Fulham was to put in place a structure that would allow the club to become a Premier League club off the field which is exactly what he did. At Man City his remit was to get them promoted and to consolidate. He did that. He did exactly what was asked of him at all three clubs and then sum. Again his club record is exceptional. Yes he didn't win any trophies but his job wasn't to win trophies or trophies were not expected of him from his clubs because the clubs he managed were not trophy winning clubs but damaged clubs, clubs he transformed in one form or another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hodsgod Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 KK asked to be given the England job, he wasn't head hunted! His performance as England manager was akin to his performance today. Did you hear his interview on the BBC, he said I don't know what happened, it was the same 11 players as the first half. If KK doesn't know what happened he shouldn't be in charge of a football team. He is paid to see what happens and adapt the team to deal with it. I doubt he will be the manager next season, I honestly believe he will walk out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hodsgod Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. It is exceptional when looked at within true context. His remit at Newcastle was to first save the club, second gain promotion and 3rd consolidate as a Premier League mainstay. He overachieved. His remit for Fulham was to put in place a structure that would allow the club to become a Premier League club off the field which is exactly what he did. At Man City his remit was to get them promoted and to consolidate. He did that. He did exactly what was asked of him at all three clubs and then sum. Again his club record is exceptional. Yes he didn't win any trophies but his job wasn't to win trophies or trophies were not expected of him from his clubs because the clubs he managed were not trophy winning clubs but damaged clubs, clubs he transformed in one form or another. That is bullshit, of course his job is to win trophies, it is the same job for all managers, unfortunately only a few can achieve it regularly. KK has never won a thing, that is the hard truth. Maybe you were there when Mohammed A F told him not to worry about trophies? His job wasn't to remove the development of the Toon youngsters but he did that as well. When people keep asking where is the next Gazza etc, KK has a lot to answer for on this subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I don't see how you can describe his club record as 'exceptional', when he hasn't won anything. It is exceptional when looked at within true context. His remit at Newcastle was to first save the club, second gain promotion and 3rd consolidate as a Premier League mainstay. He overachieved. His remit for Fulham was to put in place a structure that would allow the club to become a Premier League club off the field which is exactly what he did. At Man City his remit was to get them promoted and to consolidate. He did that. He did exactly what was asked of him at all three clubs and then sum. Again his club record is exceptional. Yes he didn't win any trophies but his job wasn't to win trophies or trophies were not expected of him from his clubs because the clubs he managed were not trophy winning clubs but damaged clubs, clubs he transformed in one form or another. That is bullshit, of course his job is to win trophies, it is the same job for all managers, unfortunately only a few can achieve it regularly. KK has never won a thing, that is the hard truth. Maybe you were there when Mohammed A F told him not to worry about trophies? His job wasn't to remove the development of the Toon youngsters but he did that as well. When people keep asking where is the next Gazza etc, KK has a lot to answer for on this subject. KK didn't abolish the academy sides so that's bull to blame him for our failure to produce the next Gazza which as an issue, is far more deep rooted and is actually a societal issue and not just a football one or in your case, a KK/NUFC one. KK has always giving youth a chance in the actual first-team at all clubs and has played a big part in Man City's academy btw. As for trophies, no it isn't the job remit of every manager in the game to win a trophy, a trophy for 95% of clubs is a dream, nothing more, especially at the clubs KK has managed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Would probably go along with that Sharkface Also think arguably KK'a greatest strength was identifying and signing very good players which isn't any good as England manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Would probably go along with that Sharkface Also think arguably KK'a greatest strength was identifying and signing very good players which isn't any good as England manager. Yep. He was/is brilliant in his ability to sell himself, his ideas, his club and what a player could achieve with him, to players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 KK asked to be given the England job, he wasn't head hunted! His performance as England manager was akin to his performance today. Did you hear his interview on the BBC, he said I don't know what happened, it was the same 11 players as the first half. If KK doesn't know what happened he shouldn't be in charge of a football team. He is paid to see what happens and adapt the team to deal with it. I doubt he will be the manager next season, I honestly believe he will walk out. Golden rule = don't believe all talk in front of the camera, especially before they have even had a chance to look at and think about things. And even more so after 5 games and not even signing one player to improve their hand. If he walks out of this club there will only be one reason, and it won't be because he lacks faith in his ability KK was touted for the England job by the media as it seemed a natural progression for him, at the time. Which should tell you something, and not about the fickleness of the cockney press Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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