Bentley - On the Move In The Summer?

[Guest Hoop Blah]

Mock all you want but I still stand by the statement that Newcastle United is a bigger pull than the likes of Villa or Everton. We still have that Mystique, whether you like it or not,  that your clubs just can't match. The media is actually a good barometer for this. TBH the goings on at Villa or Everton hardly register on the interest level but when the tea lady at NUFC sneezes there's a story written about it.

 

 

As an outsider I agree with you afar.

 

Newcastle still have the mystique of a club that could be so much more that it is.  Unfulfilled potential is what appeals to the ego of players and managers because they can see the adulation and hero worship that would come with leading Newcastle to the top.  I don't think appoiting Keegan has helped that appeal at all though but I do still think that Newcastle has a certain something about it as a club....that and you pay silly wages too!!

 

I'm not sure you'd have a chance of getting Bentley to sign though.  It seems pretty obvious his whole approach is geared towards securing his spot in the England team and he feels that he needs to be playing and proving himself against foreign opposition in Europe tofurther his claims.

 

Personally I think he ad Liverpool would be an ideal match.  Villa would stand a good chance too, manily because of Martin O'Neil, who I'm sure is a much bigger draw for today's generation of players than Keegan is.  Spurs too would be in with a good shout because they look like they're heading in the right direction.

 

Outside of those clubs I can't see anyone else really having a chance (Chelsea & Utd won't want him).

[Guest Phil K]

Not a hope of getting him.

[Colocho]

If N'Zogbia really wants out, switch Milner to the left permanently.

 

If he goes to Spurs, then we have to go for Bentley, without a doubt. If Bentley does decide to leave and Spurs end up signing him then we need to show interest in Lennon. The same goes for Chelsea with Sean Wright-Phillips. Pennant is supposedly going to be released in the summer so he is another option.

 

Obviously, it's all ifs right now.

[Belfast Boy]

I saw Bentley out tonight...

 

http://www.seatwave.com/FileStore/SEASON/IMAGE/000543.jpg

 

No, thats just what he wanted you to think.

[afar]

Spurs are the only team outside the top four that is a bigger draw than us at the moment. Most people inside and outside of football reguard the likes of Villa and Everton as also rans, they are not in the foreseeable future going to challenge for the major honours. While the likes of Spurs and ourselves have the potential under the right circumstances to break the top 4 dominance. Villa and Everton are very much "so what" clubs in my mind. That may sound condersending but I really don't give a damn what happens to them unfortunately for you guys my feeling is not uncommon.

 

 

Mate, the last thing I want to do is get into a slanging match, but have you watched much football this year?

 

Everton are currently in fifth and looking closer than anyone to breaking the big four dominance. Spurs might want to concentrate on cracking the top half of the table before they look at the big four, and until last Sunday, a lot of people here were worried about relegation.

 

Bentley wants CL football, he's only going to get it in three places.

 

To be fair to the misguided lad, he was on about te "mystique" of the club and not the position we are in at the moment.

 

And just a side note, not that i agree with him much, but it would be a testament to the club if despite having massive relegation fears this season we were still able to attract big players like we have done in the past despite having a bit of a checkered history.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

 

That's very good of you to say and thanks for all those lovely compliments !!

 

Anyway you're right (aside from the little digs of course), I think Brummie needs to remember that their rennaisance is still very much in it's early stages, they have a long way to go to eclipse the levels we reached not too long ago.

 

Never did I say we had better team than Villa or Everton, what I said was that we are a bigger draw to potential new recruits and the fact that that is the case is a tad embarrasing from your point of view considering the turmoil that's engulfed our club over the last few years.

 

I stick to my line that Villa and Everton are still "so what" fortunate to be ran by 2 excellent managers.

[afar]

Mock all you want but I still stand by the statement that Newcastle United is a bigger pull than the likes of Villa or Everton. We still have that Mystique, whether you like it or not,  that your clubs just can't match. The media is actually a good barometer for this. TBH the goings on at Villa or Everton hardly register on the interest level but when the tea lady at NUFC sneezes there's a story written about it.

 

 

As an outsider I agree with you afar.

 

Newcastle still have the mystique of a club that could be so much more that it is.  Unfulfilled potential is what appeals to the ego of players and managers because they can see the adulation and hero worship that would come with leading Newcastle to the top.  I don't think appoiting Keegan has helped that appeal at all though but I do still think that Newcastle has a certain something about it as a club....that and you pay silly wages too!!

 

I'm not sure you'd have a chance of getting Bentley to sign though.  It seems pretty obvious his whole approach is geared towards securing his spot in the England team and he feels that he needs to be playing and proving himself against foreign opposition in Europe tofurther his claims.

 

Personally I think he ad Liverpool would be an ideal match.  Villa would stand a good chance too, manily because of Martin O'Neil, who I'm sure is a much bigger draw for today's generation of players than Keegan is.  Spurs too would be in with a good shout because they look like they're heading in the right direction.

 

Outside of those clubs I can't see anyone else really having a chance (Chelsea & Utd won't want him).

 

Thanks Hoop, I think you are spot on. I even agree with you on Martin O'Neill being a bigger pull on today's generation of footballers than Keegan (although I still don't think if given the choice between Villa and NUFC, he would plump for the former).

 

Keegan kind of lost that aura when he managed teams like Fulman and Man City (not so much the club, more the fact the were languishing in the first division at the time). I think when he left us, he was better than that, it would have hurt but he could easily have took over another team pushing for honours. The England debacle too dinted that image. Also just over time people have forgotten or are too young to remember what an outstanding career he had.

 

Back to Bentley though, you are right I think, Liverpool looks like his most likely destination but if they are none of the other top 4 are interested I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that'll he'll end up at the toon.

[Guest Knightrider]

Without wanting to engage in the whole 'big club' debate, I think Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered, especially British players. That's not because I believe we have the better team or manager or are the biggest club but I do believe that St. James' Park is a bigger stage to play on and Newcastle is one of those clubs that can be a big big club of unlimited potential as opposed to the limited potential of others.

 

It is already a big club but it isn't in the same league as some, but it could be and that is very appealing. Most players and managers, even pundits (the good the bad and the ugly) all regard Newcastle as a big club, St. James' Park as a fantastic arena and the "Toon Army" fantastic fans, justified or not. While we may be somewhat a laughing stock at times as a club, our stock is still quite high in football and always will be as long as we get the gates we do and can sign players like Owen and pay the wages such players command. Remember, footballers are quite ignorant.

 

A typical footballer will not look at where we were in the table at the end of season 07-08 and think to himself, "hmmmm, they aren't a club going places." No, they will instead look at the gates, the stadium, the names current and past (Owen, Keegan, Shearer), the money we've spent which can be translated as ambition, the wages we pay and the stage we can provide - a history of qualifying for European football on a regular basis and being arguably the only club outside of the top-four with the potential to become a member of that elite band of clubs, not fleetingly but on a regular basis. Indeed it was only a few years back we were that very club and in KK's first spell as manager we almost won the title.

 

Lets not forget how deluded footballers can be too, or again ignorant. A Bentley will look at our squad and see international stars, big name big reputation players like Owen, Viduka, Butt and Duff who have won trophies galore and in Kevin Keegan a manager renowned for letting players play to their own instincts and in a style that suits them best. Again major attraction. A player joining Newcastle won't be looking around the faces in the dressing room and thinking "this is going to be a long hard season", no, they'll be thinking "wow, this is a group of talented players here" and once they sample the stage that can be St. James' Park full to the rafters with 53,000 success starved fans roaring the lads on (read Doyle's recent comments) and a player could be forgiving for thinking "this club has the lot to succeed" regardless of where we recently finished.

 

How do I know that? Just look at the list of top players we've signed over the years, just look at the number of players who have turned down the likes of Everton, Spurs and others to sign for us (I repeat: Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered).

 

Nearly every player who signs for us all say the same thing not long after: NUFC is geared for success or has everything you need to succeed. Now the cynic in me would write half of those comments down as saying the write things and what fans want to hear, but when you look around the place, they could well be right. Our only problems over the years is that we've appointed the wrong managers and bought the wrong players.

 

Well today we have the right manager who has a history of buying the right players.

 

We would stand a very good chance of signing a player like David Bentley, even if a Liverpool also showed an interest as they did in Duff and Owen, a Red basically. If it came down to us, Villa, Spurs or Everton or similar clubs, I think we'd stand more than a good chance, we'd be favourites.

 

Now before anyone starts this isn't me saying we are going to sign him or even players like him or anything like that (although I do believe we will sign quality players, we always have done) but I am confident if we did show an interest, he'd look at us and give us more than a passing interest.

 

Don't be too down on your club people, we are too emotionally wrapped up in it all to notice the great things and attractive things about it at times. Or we are too realistic and logical for our own good at times. Owen joining us wasn't realistic or logical, same with Duff who could have stayed at Chelsea, or moved to Spurs or Liverpool. And what about Nobby? He could have joined Liverpool but decided to come back here instead.

 

Newcastle United is a fantastic club to play for, St. James' Park is a fantastic stage to play on and us lot are a fantastic backdrop to play in front of. That applies no matter where we are in the table or how rosy our future looks or not.

 

Back to Bentley, when he talks about Champions League football and an international career, I don't think he is talking with a sense of immediacy. I think Bentley is stating his intent now that he'd like to be playing on such stages one day before it passes him by. It's him basically saying Blackburn aren't going to match his ambitions and he's open to someone that can. Can NUFC? Of course we can. We were outplaying Inter Milan in the San Siro only a few seasons back and a few festive holidays back we topped the league by beating Arsenal away too. There is no reason why we can't get back the that level. Mike Ashley did not buy the club to languish around at the bottom or in mid-table and KK didn't come home to run a mediocre club that under him the first time around were only second to Man Utd in every department on and off the field.

Meanwhile a full whole Toon daft city craves success. It's there for those that want it and are good enough to take it. Everything is on a plate for them. Money, lifestyle, hero worship, platform, ambitious owner and manager, passionate fans. The whole lot. Err, except a history of success.

 

Who wants to be the first?

 

Plenty of fucking takers as we'll find out.

[olliemort]

Without wanting to engage in the whole 'big club' debate, I think Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered, especially British players. That's not because I believe we have the better team or manager or are the biggest club but I do believe that St. James' Park is a bigger stage to play on and Newcastle is one of those clubs that can be a big big club of unlimited potential as opposed to the limited potential of others.

 

It is already a big club but it isn't in the same league as some, but it could be and that is very appealing. Most players and managers, even pundits (the good the bad and the ugly) all regard Newcastle as a big club, St. James' Park as a fantastic arena and the "Toon Army" fantastic fans, justified or not. While we may be somewhat a laughing stock at times as a club, our stock is still quite high in football and always will be as long as we get the gates we do and can sign players like Owen and pay the wages such players command. Remember, footballers are quite ignorant.

 

A typical footballer will not look at where we were in the table at the end of season 07-08 and think to himself, "hmmmm, they aren't a club going places." No, they will instead look at the gates, the stadium, the names current and past (Owen, Keegan, Shearer), the money we've spent which can be translated as ambition, the wages we pay and the stage we can provide - a history of qualifying for European football on a regular basis and being arguably the only club outside of the top-four with the potential to become a member of that elite band of clubs, not fleetingly but on a regular basis. Indeed it was only a few years back we were that very club and in KK's first spell as manager we almost won the title.

 

Lets not forget how deluded footballers can be too, or again ignorant. A Bentley will look at our squad and see international stars, big name big reputation players like Owen, Viduka, Butt and Duff who have won trophies galore and in Kevin Keegan a manager renowned for letting players play to their own instincts and in a style that suits them best. Again major attraction. A player joining Newcastle won't be looking around the faces in the dressing room and thinking "this is going to be a long hard season", no, they'll be thinking "wow, this is a group of talented players here" and once they sample the stage that can be St. James' Park full to the rafters with 53,000 success starved fans roaring the lads on (read Doyle's recent comments) and a player could be forgiving for thinking "this club has the lot to succeed" regardless of where we recently finished.

 

How do I know that? Just look at the list of top players we've signed over the years, just look at the number of players who have turned down the likes of Everton, Spurs and others to sign for us (I repeat: Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered).

 

Nearly every player who signs for us all say the same thing not long after: NUFC is geared for success or has everything you need to succeed. Now the cynic in me would write half of those comments down as saying the write things and what fans want to hear, but when you look around the place, they could well be right. Our only problems over the years is that we've appointed the wrong managers and bought the wrong players.

 

Well today we have the right manager who has a history of buying the right players.

 

We would stand a very good chance of signing a player like David Bentley, even if a Liverpool also showed an interest as they did in Duff and Owen, a Red basically. If it came down to us, Villa, Spurs or Everton or similar clubs, I think we'd stand more than a good chance, we'd be favourites.

 

Now before anyone starts this isn't me saying we are going to sign him or even players like him or anything like that (although I do believe we will sign quality players, we always have done) but I am confident if we did show an interest, he'd look at us and give us more than a passing interest.

 

Don't be too down on your club people, we are too emotionally wrapped up in it all to notice the great things and attractive things about it at times. Or we are too realistic and logical for our own good at times. Owen joining us wasn't realistic or logical, same with Duff who could have stayed at Chelsea, or moved to Spurs or Liverpool. And what about Nobby? He could have joined Liverpool but decided to come back here instead.

 

Newcastle United is a fantastic club to play for, St. James' Park is a fantastic stage to play on and us lot are a fantastic backdrop to play in front of. That applies no matter where we are in the table or how rosy our future looks or not.

 

Back to Bentley, when he talks about Champions League football and an international career, I don't think he is talking with a sense of immediacy. I think Bentley is stating his intent now that he'd like to be playing on such stages one day before it passes him by. It's him basically saying Blackburn aren't going to match his ambitions and he's open to someone that can. Can NUFC? Of course we can. We were outplaying Inter Milan in the San Siro only a few seasons back and a few festive holidays back we topped the league by beating Arsenal away too. There is no reason why we can't get back the that level. Mike Ashley did not buy the club to languish around at the bottom or in mid-table and KK didn't come home to run a mediocre club that under him the first time around were only second to Man Utd in every department on and off the field.

Meanwhile a full whole Toon daft city craves success. It's there for those that want it and are good enough to take it.

 

Excellent post!

[afar]

Without wanting to engage in the whole 'big club' debate, I think Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered, especially British players. That's not because I believe we have the better team or manager or are the biggest club but I do believe that St. James' Park is a bigger stage to play on and Newcastle is one of those clubs that can be a big big club of unlimited potential as opposed to the limited potential of others.

 

It is already a big club but it isn't in the same league as some, but it could be and that is very appealing. Most players and managers, even pundits (the good the bad and the ugly) all regard Newcastle as a big club, St. James' Park as a fantastic arena and the "Toon Army" fantastic fans, justified or not. While we may be somewhat a laughing stock at times as a club, our stock is still quite high in football and always will be as long as we get the gates we do and can sign players like Owen and pay the wages such players command. Remember, footballers are quite ignorant.

 

A typical footballer will not look at where we were in the table at the end of season 07-08 and think to himself, "hmmmm, they aren't a club going places." No, they will instead look at the gates, the stadium, the names current and past (Owen, Keegan, Shearer), the money we've spent which can be translated as ambition, the wages we pay and the stage we can provide - a history of qualifying for European football on a regular basis and being arguably the only club outside of the top-four with the potential to become a member of that elite band of clubs, not fleetingly but on a regular basis. Indeed it was only a few years back we were that very club and in KK's first spell as manager we almost won the title.

 

Lets not forget how deluded footballers can be too, or again ignorant. A Bentley will look at our squad and see international stars, big name big reputation players like Owen, Viduka, Butt and Duff who have won trophies galore and in Kevin Keegan a manager renowned for letting players play to their own instincts and in a style that suits them best. Again major attraction. A player joining Newcastle won't be looking around the faces in the dressing room and thinking "this is going to be a long hard season", no, they'll be thinking "wow, this is a group of talented players here" and once they sample the stage that can be St. James' Park full to the rafters with 53,000 success starved fans roaring the lads on (read Doyle's recent comments) and a player could be forgiving for thinking "this club has the lot to succeed" regardless of where we recently finished.

 

How do I know that? Just look at the list of top players we've signed over the years, just look at the number of players who have turned down the likes of Everton, Spurs and others to sign for us (I repeat: Newcastle United to most footballers would be seen as a better draw than an Everton, a Villa or a Spurs all things considered).

 

Nearly every player who signs for us all say the same thing not long after: NUFC is geared for success or has everything you need to succeed. Now the cynic in me would write half of those comments down as saying the write things and what fans want to hear, but when you look around the place, they could well be right. Our only problems over the years is that we've appointed the wrong managers and bought the wrong players.

 

Well today we have the right manager who has a history of buying the right players.

 

We would stand a very good chance of signing a player like David Bentley, even if a Liverpool also showed an interest as they did in Duff and Owen, a Red basically. If it came down to us, Villa, Spurs or Everton or similar clubs, I think we'd stand more than a good chance, we'd be favourites.

 

Now before anyone starts this isn't me saying we are going to sign him or even players like him or anything like that (although I do believe we will sign quality players, we always have done) but I am confident if we did show an interest, he'd look at us and give us more than a passing interest.

 

Don't be too down on your club people, we are too emotionally wrapped up in it all to notice the great things and attractive things about it at times. Or we are too realistic and logical for our own good at times. Owen joining us wasn't realistic or logical, same with Duff who could have stayed at Chelsea, or moved to Spurs or Liverpool. And what about Nobby? He could have joined Liverpool but decided to come back here instead.

 

Newcastle United is a fantastic club to play for, St. James' Park is a fantastic stage to play on and us lot are a fantastic backdrop to play in front of. That applies no matter where we are in the table or how rosy our future looks or not.

 

Back to Bentley, when he talks about Champions League football and an international career, I don't think he is talking with a sense of immediacy. I think Bentley is stating his intent now that he'd like to be playing on such stages one day before it passes him by. It's him basically saying Blackburn aren't going to match his ambitions and he's open to someone that can. Can NUFC? Of course we can. We were outplaying Inter Milan in the San Siro only a few seasons back and a few festive holidays back we topped the league by beating Arsenal away too. There is no reason why we can't get back the that level. Mike Ashley did not buy the club to languish around at the bottom or in mid-table and KK didn't come home to run a mediocre club that under him the first time around were only second to Man Utd in every department on and off the field.

Meanwhile a full whole Toon daft city craves success. It's there for those that want it and are good enough to take it. Everything is on a plate for them. Money, lifestyle, hero worship, platform, ambitious owner and manager, passionate fans. The whole lot. Err, except a history of success.

 

Who wants to be the first?

 

Plenty of f****** takers as we'll find out.

 

This is why I should shut my cakehole and let others do the talking. My thoughts exactly only much more eloquently put and way less confrontational

[Guest Knightrider]

In footballing terms, your posts set me up perfectly. I credit you with an assist

[Guest Knightrider]

Villa would stand a good chance too, manily because of Martin O'Neil, who I'm sure is a much bigger draw for today's generation of players than Keegan is.

 

I disagree strongly. MON is famed for getting the best out of average players (Leiciester) and his recent history is predominantly based around his feats at Celtic in a league that made a star of Lennon, Hartson and other Premiership or lower division journey men. As a player he was not a big hit either. Keegan on the other hand is famous for getting the best out of all kinds of players, especially top players. See Owen for example, KK has turned his Toon career around and withit maybe his future career. I bet Berbatov for example would rather work with KK than MON. Just look at the reaction when KK returned. Players of the calibre of SWP, Anelka et al waxed lyrical about him. Football as an industry is quite walled garden and KK's reputation inside the game is massive, as a former player, a manager and importantly as a person. Even outside of the walled garden, fans in general regard him highly as a good bloke, a fave of many fathers who we all know pass on their knowledge to their kids, and one of our better exports. In Germany he's well known, in Spain he's well known as he lived their for 7 years. He's probably more liked outside of the green and white side of Glasgow in Scotland than MON who achieved a lot North of the Border. He's a top draw. If he left Newcastle at the end of the season and MON left Villa at the end of the season, I know which manager would get the most offers and which manager would get the bigger job. If KK and MON were in for the same players, I reckon more would rather play under KK than MON, and likewise play for NUFC more than Villa all things considered. That's not me dismissing MON of course, he's obviously got something about him and has a certain attraction, as do Villa, but KK has proven himself in getting players to sign for him and importantly play for him, the good the bad and the ugly. Btw a lot of today's generation grew up on watching NUFC going all out attack for the title and lets not forget this generation probably supported us as their second fave team Seriously, when Berbatov talks about growing up he talks about Shearer, and KK's Newcastle and isn't he today's generation, isn't he a top player? I doubt he even heard of MON before he arrived here. I think he's a pretty good example to illustrate my point and he's foreign, British players go without saying.

[johnnypd]

i'm biased but i do think newcastle have a more attractive allure than everton or villa, despite those clubs maybe being more successful in the past or more stable in the present. i think spurs have this quality too. it is difficult to pin it down but two of those clubs are always in the media and the other two aren't, two always go for big names players, spend big fees, have huge fanbases and have a bit of mystique about them. villa and everton for some reason come off as boring and run of the mill. even when everton finished 4th it was aways 'plucky everton' who built a side on a budget, braving against the odds. there was never the sense that this was a big club on the rise. when we had a good spell under robson there was much more press attention and adulation. even when spurs finished 5th they got far more plaudits. it's not somethig you can quantify into stadium size, trophies or league positions though, just a kind of irrational 'feeling' you get about certain clubs and not with others.

 

not that this is definitely going to sway such and such a player. more important is probably the wages offered, players in the squad and the feeling they get after talking to their prospective manager.

[Guest Knightrider]

To strengthen my point:

 

Faye recently speaking:

 

“When I first arrived I really thought we could get into the top six."

 

He thought we were capable of getting into the top 6 despite finishing mid-table the season before. No why did he think that? The stadium perhaps, the names in the dressing room perhaps? The full houses? Our recent history? Could be all of them.

 

“This was Newcastle I was signing for, they don’t struggle like this. This season has been not what I expected."

 

We've been struggling for years. What give him the impression we don't struggle? The walled garden effect I like to call it. Players don't really get deeply involved in the game like fans do, they don't analyse form, league tables or see past what they only know. When Faye played at St. James' Park with Bolton he didn't see a mid-table club who had been doing shite for years, no he seen that huge stadium, a full house, he felt the big stage feeling. He probably though what a great place SJP would be to play at every week. What a big club Newcastle must be.

 

“Of course we can get in the top six at this club. Everything here is ready for that. When I came here I was joining a club with big names, big players around the place. I thought we’d do well this season. I thought top six, top five or even get in the Champions League. It’s not happened like that at all."

 

There you go, from the horses mouth. Notice the mention of big name faces, big players? Also notice how footballers see things differently? Champions League? Fuck me if any fan on here thought that they'd be ridiculed.

 

“Everybody wants to play in the Champions League and after very difficult times that’s something we think we can still get to next season. Sometimes things don’t go well and they haven’t this season, but things are improving and hopefully next season, I think, will be better.”

 

He's saying that looking in from the inside, what would those looking in from the outside think? Big stadium, great fans, good history, spend lots of money, will pay me big wages, have challenged for big honours before, regulars in Europe, an attacking footballing manager who loves to see his players playing to their own instincts in a style that suits them best. A dream ticket, no?

 

What could an Everton offer? A delapitated stadium, a "meh" manager, no recent European history to speak of or challenges for major honours, small squad, not many big name players or big game players, haven't spent much over the years, don't always sell out, not the biggest stage to play on. Andy Johnson or Michael Owen? And quite significant.... neighbourly envy. When you join Everton you're not even joining the best club in the city.

 

Johnnypd and Afar are right to be honest. I don't buy that bigger club bollocks personally, Everton or Villa for me for example are a big club, as big as we are or no bigger, some could justifiably argue they are bigger. But there is something about a club like Newcastle, a bigger appeal and I think I know what it is, reputation, justified or not. In the walled garden of the game it's to footy what word of mouth is to marketeers and advertisers. The be all and end all.

 

When we were after Laurent Robert he asked Henry what he though about Newcastle and Henry said, big club, potential to be one of the best, great fans, big stadium, pay good money, sign for them. Dessailly said the same thing to Boumsong. Now if Bentley had an offer from us and wanted to know what working with KK and NUFC was like, all he'd have to do is ask his England colleague Owen, a player he probably admires greatly whose feats he'd love to emulate for England. Michael Owen or Andy Johnson?

[afar]

I tried to stay clear of the "Big Club" for very good reason, Villa and Everton have as rich and probably richer history than ourselves.

 

The general apathy for which both clubs are held is quite amazing considering that their history. Aston Villa are one of only 4 English clubs to win the biggest prize in club football. Everton's history of success is the envy of most other clubs. Yet neither has that draw for the big name player.

 

I wonder what either can do to change that because until they do they'll never progress further than they are at present.

[Guest Knightrider]

I reckon Villa being a Midlands club hasn't helped their cause and the fact that Everton live in the shadow of Liverpool hasn't done them any favours either. Agree though, both are big clubs and if I'm right Villa have over 20 trophies to their name which would make them the 4th most successful club in England. I don't think Everton can do anything to enhance their reputation much as LFC are far too dominant in that City. Villa could though, by spending big, signing big names, playing good football and playing in Europe regularly for a few seaons. Basically making splashes which they haven't done for decades. Strange club Villa, a half a season club for so many years and even though they're having a good season in general and have improved a lot, they are still an upper mid-table club. MON's caution in the transfer market will undo all his good work and work against him and Villa. He's doing there exactly what he did at Leiciester although he's spent a bit more money, working with a core small group of mixed players and getting them working hard and acheiving certain goals, but Villa need more. That at Leicester was overachieving. That at Celtic won leagues. At Villa, for them to move on, he has to buy quality players when the iron is hot and he hasn't done that. Time will tell whether his work just dries up there.

[brummie]

I tried to stay clear of the "Big Club" for very good reason, Villa and Everton have as rich and probably richer history than ourselves.

 

The general apathy for which both clubs are held is quite amazing considering that their history. Aston Villa are one of only 4 English clubs to win the biggest prize in club football. Everton's history of success is the envy of most other clubs. Yet neither has that draw for the big name player.

 

I wonder what either can do to change that because until they do they'll never progress further than they are at present.

 

No offence, but that's such a load of patronising fucking rubbish.

 

"General apathy" - get a fucking clue, mate. Have a look at the recent history of the club, and you might have an idea.

 

I used to watch your club an awful lot in the McKeag era (I suspect that name means nothing to you), and saw how shitly you were run back then (something I agree with NE5 on).

 

Well, that's the way we've been run for the best part of 40 years, with the exception of the last 2 years, and 3 years betwen 1979 and 1982. In the years 79-82, we won the league and the european cup. In the last two years, we've been looking a lot more positive.

 

When you were signing players like Shearer and Owen, we were sending Erik Bakke back to Leeds because we couldn't afford his wages. We were run like a fucking corner shop. File that under "apathy".

 

I could pick more holes in your patronising rubbish, but I won't, lest I fall out with some of the friends I've made on here, but I'll just say that in a few posts you've epitomised what people mean when they get a negative idea of Newcastle fans.

 

 

 

[Dave]

Ouch.

[brummie]

Ouch.

 

Sorry.

 

Nah, fuck it, I'm not sorry about the point, just the somewhat forceful wording.

 

You know what I mean 

[afar]

I tried to stay clear of the "Big Club" for very good reason, Villa and Everton have as rich and probably richer history than ourselves.

 

The general apathy for which both clubs are held is quite amazing considering that their history. Aston Villa are one of only 4 English clubs to win the biggest prize in club football. Everton's history of success is the envy of most other clubs. Yet neither has that draw for the big name player.

 

I wonder what either can do to change that because until they do they'll never progress further than they are at present.

 

No offence, but that's such a load of patronising f****** rubbish.

 

"General apathy" - get a f****** clue, mate. Have a look at the recent history of the club, and you might have an idea.

 

I used to watch your club an awful lot in the McKeag era (I suspect that name means nothing to you), and saw how shitly you were run back then (something I agree with NE5 on).

 

Well, that's the way we've been run for the best part of 40 years, with the exception of the last 2 years, and 3 years betwen 1979 and 1982. In the years 79-82, we won the league and the european cup. In the last two years, we've been looking a lot more positive.

 

When you were signing players like Shearer and Owen, we were sending Erik Bakke back to Leeds because we couldn't afford his wages. We were run like a f****** corner shop. File that under "apathy".

 

I could pick more holes in your patronising rubbish, but I won't, lest I fall out with some of the friends I've made on here, but I'll just say that in a few posts you've epitomised what people mean when they get a negative idea of Newcastle fans.

 

 

 

 

I have to admit that what I wrote was intended to get your goat up a little and I appologise for causing you offence. You're right it was patronising in the extreme.

 

To address one pont though: A lot of people refer back to those dark days in our history as the McKeag years but McKeag's stewardship was actually only a part of the the problem. The real issues began under Lord Westwood and later Stan Seymour jnr. who's was very much a kin to Douglas Hall, his father too had been such a major influence on this club and his memory has been sullied by his offspring. I venture to say I watched a hell of a lot more NUFC games during that than you did, so please do not try to belittle me.

 

I still stand by my general point though, sorry if that just endorses the negative opionon of NUFC fans that these people of yours have. 

[1878]

Ouch.

 

Sorry.

 

Nah, f*** it, I'm not sorry about the point, just the somewhat forceful wording.

 

You know what I mean 

 

I wasn't biting. Not interested in getting into a pissing contest over who is the better club.

 

What I will say is Everton and Villa have both had the same problems, incompetent wankers running the club and little to no money invested. That's why big names "won't come here"- because we can't afford to make them an offer in the first place. Also, Liverpool being in the same city is totally irrelevant nonsense.

[fredbob]

Ouch.

 

Sorry.

 

Nah, f*** it, I'm not sorry about the point, just the somewhat forceful wording.

 

You know what I mean 

 

I wasn't biting. Not interested in getting into a pissing contest over who is the better club.

 

What I will say is Everton and Villa have both had the same problems, incompetent wankers running the club and little to no money invested. That's why big names "won't come here"- because we can't afford to make them an offer in the first place. Also, Liverpool being in the same city is totally irrelevant nonsense.

 

Really??

 

Id of listed that as one of your biggest weaknesses as a club. No matter how well they do in the league as long as they arent doing better than Liverpool on a consistent basis they will never be the club they could and deserve to be. Size of the club is directly relevant to the type of players you sign and unformunately even if you are doing a bit better han Liverpool, in fact even if you were doing a lot better than Liverpool, you still wouldnt in my opinion have the same pulling power as liverpool would have.

 

Its the saem with Man City, the by rights could be a big big club as well but they will never ever hav the samepuling power as Man U irrespective of how much money they have and how well they are doing.

 

To re illustrate tht point, Newcastle have benefitted massivvely from being a one club city.

[brummie]

There's really no point thinking of sharing a city with Liverpool or Man United as anything like sharing a city with "another premier league club" - both clubs are beloved of jester hat toting Scandos, Irish coach parties and perma grinning Koreans, and always will be. They've transcended mere bitchslapfests as local rivalries (with the exception of 2 games a season).

 

Everton are a massive club, they're one of the corner stones of the English game. To suggest they're limited because of the Johny Come Latelies over the park seems to me to be missing the point.

 

They've got the traditional fanbase, they've got the history, they've got the "name", and they're quite obviously moving in the right direction. I can also think of several of their players I'd swap for the equivalents in our time in a heartbeat.

 

The fact that Liverpool are filling their ground (well, most weeks, anyway) with out-of-towners doesn't mean Everton don't have their share of the support in the city. Not at all.

 

 

[fredbob]

There's really no point thinking of sharing a city with Liverpool or Man United as anything like sharing a city with "another premier league club" - both clubs are beloved of jester hat toting Scandos, Irish coach parties and perma grinning Koreans, and always will be. They've transcended mere bitchslapfests as local rivalries (with the exception of 2 games a season).

 

Everton are a massive club, they're one of the corner stones of the English game. To suggest they're limited because of the Johny Come Latelies over the park seems to me to be missing the point.

 

They've got the traditional fanbase, they've got the history, they've got the "name", and they're quite obviously moving in the right direction. I can also think of several of their players I'd swap for the equivalents in our time in a heartbeat.

 

The fact that Liverpool are filling their ground (well, most weeks, anyway) with out-of-towners doesn't mean Everton don't have their share of the support in the city. Not at all.

 

 

 

Not sure i agree with all of that, my point was that Everton are handicapped as a club by having Livepool in the same city. i think its a bit of an unrealisitc view to suggest that the tradition of the clubs has much standing in todays game, unfortunately it is an aspect of the game which seems to be phased out in order to make more room for the souless business side of the game.

 

I like Everton as a club, i think Moyes has done a fantastic job and maybe doesnt get half the credit he deserves (credit which seems to be reseverd for the english Sam Allrdyce) but i genuinely believe that having a good history, having a good standing at present and having a good tradition count for very little in toays more moey driven game. And especially so when you have a massive world reknonwed club on your doorstep.

 

Its David versus Goliath without the rock.

 

[Guest Hoop Blah]

CoachHTT - although I do agree that Newcastle have a big drawing power for players, I think you're getting a little carried away with your clubs own hype.  A few points.

 

- players will generally go where the money is, and your lucky enough to be able to match the top dollar for the big names

- you talk of players choosing the Toon over the likes of Spurs and Liverpool.  I dont think Liverpool ever showed an interest in Owen, maybe Duff but from not memory not at the time you actually signed him, and Woodgate clearly preferred to move to London and a greater chance of silverwear with Spurs than stay at home in the North East and return to St James'

- I totally agree players will look at potential as opposed to league position

- you quote new signings raving about the talent, history and potential of the club....what else are they going to say?  I've signed here because the top four didnt want me but I might be able to impress enough here whilst earning 50k a week before getting my dream move to a side that's really going to challenge....

- regarding Bentley, I think your wrong about the immediacy bit, he clearly wants to be proving himself to Coppello now in order to enhance his world cup claims, and that means playing in Europe now, not after the world cup has passed.

 

As for your comparison between KK and O'Neil, I think you're living in the past I'm afraid.  There is now way that Liverpool or Man Utd would consider Keegan as their successor, I'd say both would think about O'Neil if they were in the market for a new manager.  I agree that O'Neil has made his reputation building sides out of lesser players and bringing success to the clubs his done that with....that in essence is what a good manager does, that is why he's so highly regarding by pretty much all his ex-players and ex-clubs.  I guess which manager a current player would rather play for will depend on the type of player.  If he's an up and coming player who is hungry to succeed and improve, then I'd wager they'd plum for O'Neil.

[1878]

There's really no point thinking of sharing a city with Liverpool or Man United as anything like sharing a city with "another premier league club" - both clubs are beloved of jester hat toting Scandos, Irish coach parties and perma grinning Koreans, and always will be. They've transcended mere bitchslapfests as local rivalries (with the exception of 2 games a season).

 

Everton are a massive club, they're one of the corner stones of the English game. To suggest they're limited because of the Johny Come Latelies over the park seems to me to be missing the point.

 

They've got the traditional fanbase, they've got the history, they've got the "name", and they're quite obviously moving in the right direction. I can also think of several of their players I'd swap for the equivalents in our time in a heartbeat.

 

The fact that Liverpool are filling their ground (well, most weeks, anyway) with out-of-towners doesn't mean Everton don't have their share of the support in the city. Not at all.

 

 

 

Not sure i agree with all of that, my point was that Everton are handicapped as a club by having Livepool in the same city. i think its a bit of an unrealisitc view to suggest that the tradition of the clubs has much standing in todays game, unfortunately it is an aspect of the game which seems to be phased out in order to make more room for the souless business side of the game.

 

I like Everton as a club, i think Moyes has done a fantastic job and maybe doesnt get half the credit he deserves (credit which seems to be reseverd for the english Sam Allrdyce) but i genuinely believe that having a good history, having a good standing at present and having a good tradition count for very little in toays more moey driven game. And especially so when you have a massive world reknonwed club on your doorstep.

 

Its David versus Goliath without the rock.

 

 

So what do you think about Atletico Madrid? They attract big name players every year and have pretty much an identical honours list to Everton and the biggest club in the world on their doorstep. The difference being money. You just said yourself that today's game is money driven, Atletico have lots of it and we don't.

 

It's also worth considering that back in the 70's when Liverpool were far, far stronger than they are now and were winning everything in sight it was no handicap to us in the long run, we came through it stronger and won major trophies ourselves in the 80's.

 

Back then we had the finances to compete at the very top end of the market and go after all the top players but now we're operating a step below that. If/when things change in the boardroom then that will be reflected on the pitch. We'll be able to genuinely compete at that point but until then, we're hoping one of the rich clubs will slip up and our manager will be able to capitalise on it. Same as Villa/City/Spurs/Newcastle.