Senderos Vs Taylor

[Guest alex]

think its slightly odd the way people jump onto bandwagons, most of them are probably unconvinced of their own point of view so hide behind the majority.

 

A few years ago the vast majority of people said Ameobi was the new Shearer, needed games to improve, the new "flying centre forward". Some even said it justified the sale of Bellamy because we had plenty of other good forwards [words to that effect].

 

The truth is that he was always crap - for the standards we wanted - and never had a cat in hells chance of filling either Shearer's or Bellamy's boots.

 

Taylor is now attracting the same but with the opposite view.

 

The last post by sicsfingeredmong is closer to the truth. The fact is he was a prospect with a lot of potential, and appears to have stalled during a season which has been difficult for everybody, as well as the last one too, and the one before. Why single out Taylor ?

 

If his attitude and desire remain, he can still achieve his potential, the same player is still there at 21/22 years old. Playing alongside better players will be the making of him if this is the case.

 

 

You keep saying that often enough but I still don't think anyone believes you. Shola's probably the only on who said it.

 

oh I don't think so Alex. I remember it clearly, and I suspect that you do too.

 

 

No I don't. The best thing 'the vast majority' has ever said about Shola is that he looked alright when we got to 7th under Roeder. By all means dig up the dozens of quotes you must remember saying he was 'the new Shearer' though. I suspect you'll say you can't be bothered

 

thats right, I can't be bothered, it may also be on the old server. I also know that what I say is true, although I realise you may not like it even though I don't know why not as I don't think you did.

 

In fact Alex, the only person who appears to have the time and the sad inclination to rake through hundreds of old posts by people is your little mate Baggy.

 

 

What's your problem with my liking Baggio exactly? You've mentioned that several times of late. I think he's a canny poster, aye. It doesn't follow that I dislike you just because you two don't get on.

[NE5]

think its slightly odd the way people jump onto bandwagons, most of them are probably unconvinced of their own point of view so hide behind the majority.

 

A few years ago the vast majority of people said Ameobi was the new Shearer, needed games to improve, the new "flying centre forward". Some even said it justified the sale of Bellamy because we had plenty of other good forwards [words to that effect].

 

The truth is that he was always crap - for the standards we wanted - and never had a cat in hells chance of filling either Shearer's or Bellamy's boots.

 

Taylor is now attracting the same but with the opposite view.

 

The last post by sicsfingeredmong is closer to the truth. The fact is he was a prospect with a lot of potential, and appears to have stalled during a season which has been difficult for everybody, as well as the last one too, and the one before. Why single out Taylor ?

 

If his attitude and desire remain, he can still achieve his potential, the same player is still there at 21/22 years old. Playing alongside better players will be the making of him if this is the case.

 

 

You keep saying that often enough but I still don't think anyone believes you. Shola's probably the only on who said it.

 

oh I don't think so Alex. I remember it clearly, and I suspect that you do too.

 

 

No I don't. The best thing 'the vast majority' has ever said about Shola is that he looked alright when we got to 7th under Roeder. By all means dig up the dozens of quotes you must remember saying he was 'the new Shearer' though. I suspect you'll say you can't be bothered

 

thats right, I can't be bothered, it may also be on the old server. I also know that what I say is true, although I realise you may not like it even though I don't know why not as I don't think you did.

 

In fact Alex, the only person who appears to have the time and the sad inclination to rake through hundreds of old posts by people is your little mate Baggy.

 

 

What's your problem with my liking Baggio exactly? You've mentioned that several times of late. I think he's a canny poster, aye. It doesn't follow that I dislike you just because you two don't get on.

 

calling it as I see it Alex. I find it a bit sad that people go digging up old posts, ref your comment that "I wouldn't be bothered" thats right, I can't be bothered.

 

 

[Dave]

I was taking the piss when I posted that NE5, given that we'd already descended into YET ANOTHER argument about the board. In a thread about Steven Taylor. Nobody started that but you with a ridiculous comment about Mort. Sorry but that's a fact too. Same with the ridiculous arguing with Baggio, Gol and Mick just because you've fallen out in the past about other things.

[Guest alex]

think its slightly odd the way people jump onto bandwagons, most of them are probably unconvinced of their own point of view so hide behind the majority.

 

A few years ago the vast majority of people said Ameobi was the new Shearer, needed games to improve, the new "flying centre forward". Some even said it justified the sale of Bellamy because we had plenty of other good forwards [words to that effect].

 

The truth is that he was always crap - for the standards we wanted - and never had a cat in hells chance of filling either Shearer's or Bellamy's boots.

 

Taylor is now attracting the same but with the opposite view.

 

The last post by sicsfingeredmong is closer to the truth. The fact is he was a prospect with a lot of potential, and appears to have stalled during a season which has been difficult for everybody, as well as the last one too, and the one before. Why single out Taylor ?

 

If his attitude and desire remain, he can still achieve his potential, the same player is still there at 21/22 years old. Playing alongside better players will be the making of him if this is the case.

 

 

You keep saying that often enough but I still don't think anyone believes you. Shola's probably the only on who said it.

 

oh I don't think so Alex. I remember it clearly, and I suspect that you do too.

 

 

No I don't. The best thing 'the vast majority' has ever said about Shola is that he looked alright when we got to 7th under Roeder. By all means dig up the dozens of quotes you must remember saying he was 'the new Shearer' though. I suspect you'll say you can't be bothered

 

thats right, I can't be bothered, it may also be on the old server. I also know that what I say is true, although I realise you may not like it even though I don't know why not as I don't think you did.

 

In fact Alex, the only person who appears to have the time and the sad inclination to rake through hundreds of old posts by people is your little mate Baggy.

 

 

What's your problem with my liking Baggio exactly? You've mentioned that several times of late. I think he's a canny poster, aye. It doesn't follow that I dislike you just because you two don't get on.

 

calling it as I see it Alex. I find it a bit sad that people go digging up old posts, ref your comment that "I wouldn't be bothered" thats right, I can't be bothered.

 

 

Fucking hell man Steve, that was a joke anyway, I even put a wink on the end. I genuinely don't remember the 'vast majority' (your words) saying Shola was the next Alan Shearer though.

[Lotus]

think its slightly odd the way people jump onto bandwagons, most of them are probably unconvinced of their own point of view so hide behind the majority.

 

A few years ago the vast majority of people said Ameobi was the new Shearer, needed games to improve, the new "flying centre forward". Some even said it justified the sale of Bellamy because we had plenty of other good forwards [words to that effect].

 

The truth is that he was always crap - for the standards we wanted - and never had a cat in hells chance of filling either Shearer's or Bellamy's boots.

 

Taylor is now attracting the same but with the opposite view.

 

The last post by sicsfingeredmong is closer to the truth. The fact is he was a prospect with a lot of potential, and appears to have stalled during a season which has been difficult for everybody, as well as the last one too, and the one before. Why single out Taylor ?

 

If his attitude and desire remain, he can still achieve his potential, the same player is still there at 21/22 years old. Playing alongside better players will be the making of him if this is the case.

 

 

You keep saying that often enough but I still don't think anyone believes you. Shola's probably the only on who said it.

 

oh I don't think so Alex. I remember it clearly, and I suspect that you do too.

 

 

No I don't. The best thing 'the vast majority' has ever said about Shola is that he looked alright when we got to 7th under Roeder. By all means dig up the dozens of quotes you must remember saying he was 'the new Shearer' though. I suspect you'll say you can't be bothered

 

thats right, I can't be bothered, it may also be on the old server. I also know that what I say is true, although I realise you may not like it even though I don't know why not as I don't think you did.

 

In fact Alex, the only person who appears to have the time and the sad inclination to rake through hundreds of old posts by people is your little mate Baggy.

 

 

What's your problem with my liking Baggio exactly? You've mentioned that several times of late. I think he's a canny poster, aye. It doesn't follow that I dislike you just because you two don't get on.

 

calling it as I see it Alex. I find it a bit sad that people go digging up old posts, ref your comment that "I wouldn't be bothered" thats right, I can't be bothered.

 

 

f****** hell man Steve, that was a joke anyway, I even put a wink on the end. I genuinely don't remember the 'vast majority' (your words) saying Shola was the next Alan Shearer though.

I really don't believe anyone did tbh.

Nothing wrong with having big expectations of Taylor a couple of years ago (despite my teasing), he looked more promising then tbf. Taylor might come good, you never know. We all hope so because it's great to have someone out of academy doing well. This argument is all about something else tbh.

[NE5]

I was taking the piss when I posted that NE5, given that we'd already descended into YET ANOTHER argument about the board. In a thread about Steven Taylor. Nobody started that but you with a ridiculous comment about Mort. Sorry but that's a fact too. Same with the ridiculous arguing with Baggio, Gol and Mick just because you've fallen out in the past about other things.

 

suggest you read again Dave, from page 6. You will clearly see that Baggy and Gol both made reference to me and replied to me before I mentioned either of them or Chris Mort. My very first comment was saying that I think people are applying different standards to Taylor because he's a local lad, just like they did ref Ameobi.

 

Don't suppose you would retract the above comments in spite of it being wrong mind.

 

Thats a sort of piss take too by the way.

 

 

[Dave]

I was taking the piss when I posted that NE5, given that we'd already descended into YET ANOTHER argument about the board. In a thread about Steven Taylor. Nobody started that but you with a ridiculous comment about Mort. Sorry but that's a fact too. Same with the ridiculous arguing with Baggio, Gol and Mick just because you've fallen out in the past about other things.

 

suggest you read again Dave, from page 6. You will clearly see that Baggy and Gol both made reference to me and replied to me before I mentioned either of them or Chris Mort. My very first comment was saying that I think people are applying different standards to Taylor because he's a local lad, just like they did ref Ameobi.

 

Don't suppose you would retract the above comments in spite of it being wrong mind.

 

Thats a sort of piss take too by the way.

 

 

 

You're getting mixed up.

 

You and I were chatting about last season when you edited your post (this one: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=51807.msg1279598#msg1279598) to add in a comment about Mort that loads of others then jumped on (because frankly it was pathetic).

 

The fact you're also going on about the same old things with Baggio (number of games he's attended - relevance to Taylor?), Gol (editing people's posts - relevance to Taylor?) and Mick (Champions League qualifications - relevance to Taylor?) is just in addition to that.

[NE5]

I was taking the piss when I posted that NE5, given that we'd already descended into YET ANOTHER argument about the board. In a thread about Steven Taylor. Nobody started that but you with a ridiculous comment about Mort. Sorry but that's a fact too. Same with the ridiculous arguing with Baggio, Gol and Mick just because you've fallen out in the past about other things.

 

suggest you read again Dave, from page 6. You will clearly see that Baggy and Gol both made reference to me and replied to me before I mentioned either of them or Chris Mort. My very first comment was saying that I think people are applying different standards to Taylor because he's a local lad, just like they did ref Ameobi.

 

Don't suppose you would retract the above comments in spite of it being wrong mind.

 

Thats a sort of piss take too by the way.

 

 

 

You're getting mixed up.

 

You and I were chatting about last season when you edited your post (this one: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=51807.msg1279598#msg1279598) to add in a comment about Mort that loads of others then jumped on (because frankly it was pathetic).

 

The fact you're also going on about the same old things with Baggio (number of games he's attended - relevance to Taylor?), Gol (editing people's posts - relevance to Taylor?) and Mick (Champions League qualifications - relevance to Taylor?) is just in addition to that.

 

and you - finally after how long disagreeing with me - agreed with the sentiments I expressed in that link ?

 

Point is also that if Baggy and Gol hadn't replied to me, [and mick referenced], I had no intention whatsoever of even thinking of making reference to any of them, so you are jumping on the wrong side of the fence here.

 

I stick by my judgement of Taylor, regarding the subject of this thread, and it seems the vast majority of people agree.

 

 

[Mick]

 

 

What position did we finish in Fred's first season as sole chairman?

 

I started to answer. 

[Dave]

and you - finally after how long disagreeing with me - agreed with the sentiments I expressed in that link ?

 

Point is also that if Baggy and Gol hadn't replied to me, [and mick referenced], I had no intention whatsoever of even thinking of making reference to any of them, so you are jumping on the wrong side of the fence here.

 

I stick by my judgement of Taylor, regarding the subject of this thread, and it seems the vast majority of people agree.

 

 

 

As I said, I agreed generally with your post before you edited in the bit about Mort, which to me seemed ridiculous, hence my post after that.

 

I know it's not just you to blame when threads descend into this dross btw.

[NE5]

and you - finally after how long disagreeing with me - agreed with the sentiments I expressed in that link ?

 

Point is also that if Baggy and Gol hadn't replied to me, [and mick referenced], I had no intention whatsoever of even thinking of making reference to any of them, so you are jumping on the wrong side of the fence here.

 

I stick by my judgement of Taylor, regarding the subject of this thread, and it seems the vast majority of people agree.

 

 

 

As I said, I agreed generally with your post before you edited in the bit about Mort, which to me seemed ridiculous, hence my post after that.

 

I know it's not just you to blame when threads descend into this dross btw.

 

whats that got to do with baggy, gol and mick ?

 

 

[fredbob]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

[NE5]

 

 

What position did we finish in Fred's first season as sole chairman?

 

I started to answer.   

 

 

[Dave]

and you - finally after how long disagreeing with me - agreed with the sentiments I expressed in that link ?

 

Point is also that if Baggy and Gol hadn't replied to me, [and mick referenced], I had no intention whatsoever of even thinking of making reference to any of them, so you are jumping on the wrong side of the fence here.

 

I stick by my judgement of Taylor, regarding the subject of this thread, and it seems the vast majority of people agree.

 

 

 

As I said, I agreed generally with your post before you edited in the bit about Mort, which to me seemed ridiculous, hence my post after that.

 

I know it's not just you to blame when threads descend into this dross btw.

 

whats that got to do with baggy, gol and mick ?

 

 

 

 

Read my post again. I just meant you do yourself no favours when you drag up those old arguments in threads like this. The bit about Mort was between you and me and others jumped on it.

[NE5]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

[fredbob]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise.

 

Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand?

 

Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest....

 

Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc

[TRon]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it).

 

[NE5]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it).

 

 

you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength.

 

He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes.  All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now.

 

He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal.

 

 

[Dave]

When do you expect he'll gain the experience though, given he has over 100 starts for the club? Has he improved much in that time?

[NE5]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise.

 

Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand?

 

Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest....

 

Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc

 

You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United.

 

Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about 

[fredbob]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it).

 

 

you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength.

 

He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes.  All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now.

 

He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal.

 

 

 

To be fair, he lacks the strength required to become the Terry type defender, well does at the moment. Look at the likes of Faye, Campbell, Terry, Vidic, even Bramble to see how weak he is comparitively speaking. That is a major flaw forhim if he wants to thrive in that position.

 

Also the bit in bold....what is it that Roz and Cacapa have done which is any worse than what you've mentioned yet still make them classifiable as "shit"

[NE5]

When do you expect he'll gain the experience though, given he has over 100 starts for the club?

 

He's only 21/22 he's still a bairn in terms of footballing development.

 

Playing with better teams and better players always improves you. The last few years haven't been easy for our defenders, ever since we lost Shearer, Bellamy and Robert. Last year we lost Solano too. To a degree dire went but he hardly played and when he did he wasn't arsed a lot of the time. Don't you see what a difference this makes to the overall pattern, shape of the team and development of all the players at the club ?

 

I've seen loads of defenders improve as they get older. Loads, and not just at Newcastle. Bobby Moncur had no pace, but he was a good captain. As a defender he improved all through his career, I'm sure he wasn't even a regular first team player until he was in his early 20's. Ollie Burton too was a  "right-half" who converted to a centre half in his mid 20's and became one of the best we have had.

 

Kenny Burns was always a decent player at Birmingham. But moving to Forest and playing in a top side transformed him into one of the best around. This is how it is. He needs to step up from playing in a team of the standard he's played in for the last year or two into a better side, and if its with us he can and should perform much better himself.

 

 

[NE5]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it).

 

 

you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength.

 

He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes.  All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now.

 

He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal.

 

 

 

To be fair, he lacks the strength required to become the Terry type defender, well does at the moment. Look at the likes of Faye, Campbell, Terry, Vidic, even Bramble to see how weak he is comparitively speaking. That is a major flaw forhim if he wants to thrive in that position.

 

Also the bit in bold....what is it that Roz and Cacapa have done which is any worse than what you've mentioned yet still make them classifiable as "shit"

 

having seen them brushed aside by the physical challenge, I find that an amazing question

 

 

[TRon]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it).

 

 

you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength.

 

He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes.  All defenders do this.

 

 

Well it's mostly just the 2nd rate defenders who do. I can only call it as I see it and I quite often see Taylor get outmuscled, same as Rozenhal, and he doesn't have any of Rozenhal's anticipation either, or Cacapa's intelligence. David Wheater looks a far better 'local' prospect to me, now he'd have a reason to be big-headed.

[fredbob]

Great argument that. Could have been used for Smith and Duff starting every week in which case we'd probably have been relegated.

 

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye.

 

My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO.

 

WUM?

 

To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management.

 

Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances.

 

how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender]

 

 

 

Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well?

 

Man you really dont know much about football do you?

 

Have you ever played football?

 

strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ?

 

You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like 

 

Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise.

 

Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand?

 

Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest....

 

Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc

 

You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United.

 

Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about 

 

Hit a sore point there then. Sorry...

 

Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and  perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time.

 

To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me.

 

Basically what im saying is that you're wrong.