Newcastle in Turmoil, says Sir Les

[Dave]

You just can't stay on topic can you, always throwing in completely unrelated things. It'll be Bellamy and Souness next.

[Cajun]

A lot of people don't think Edgar or Taylor are good enough (a few think Faye aswell) so I don't see how a quality centre back is a "trophy" signing.

 

A lot of people didn't realise that Solano was near the end of his career and a lot of people didn't realise that zoggy was still very young and unlikely to play anywhere near a whole season either. But it still didn't stop there personality driven agendas.

 

I don't see how under those circumstances Duff was a "trophy signing " either especially when he was only a Chelsea squad player too.

 

 

 

I will go all "NE5" on you know..

 

I said at the time the Duff money could have been spent better, this is a FACT because he has proven to be shite for us.

[NE5]

ne5......just for the record will you put a figure on what you would class as acceptable spending by NUFC this window ?

just thought i'd quote this again in case he missed it the first time

 

I've answered this before madras. People will just say we are going over old ground again if I answer it again.

 

Quality players, 1st choice signings. No top figure, but act like the big club we are. Spending a few million quid when we clearly need at least 3 player to go straight into the team is not behaving like a top club with a big turnover.

 

I don't think you understand this to be honest do you ?

 

It's not just about money, its about paying it where you need to and not capping him and forcing him to go 2nd best.

 

it's also about not being tret as a mug (in the transfer market,it's also about getting a decent manager.

 

oh and big turnover means nowt if your outgoings are more than the turnover. it doesn't give you extra spending power.

 

Mugs supported the club when they sold our best players for decades and ended up with one foot in the 3rd division as a result. Like me. All 20,000 of us. Those 30,000 who were attracted back to the club because the club showed intent to punch our weight and compete at the level we should have been at were, in fact, also mugs for missing out on the good old days when we were never embarrassed, never had "debts due to stadium expansion" and didn't spend money that we never had because we bought players from the 3rd and 4th divisions.

 

Except nobody was interested, hence the failed share issue too, in 1991.

 

Nobody is denying that in the last few years they appointed Souness and gave him too much money, and allowed him to get rid of good players for peanuts too, but hey madras, people like me said this at the time, and said where we would end up because of it, and others said we should continue backing him [with more money we didn't have ] ? The same people now slating for the debt do you think ?

 

At the end of the day though, the same principle applies. If you don't buy a ticket you won't win the raffle.

if you buy too many raffle tickets you cant afford to eat.

 

 

building up some debt is ok...keeping on piling it on isn't. you yourself go on about the massive turnover but that was increasingly used on wages rather than improving the club. amazing that we spent so much on wages with such a small squad while struggling in the lower reaches of mid table

 

desperate attempt to justify your agenda.

 

At the end of the day, the bad old days of playing in europe more often than everyone but 4 teams says everything.

 

 

4 top half finishes in 11 years isn't it ?

 

5 top half finishes in almost 40 years is what I make it, pre 1992

 

Perspective.

 

You would have thought with such a dismal record as you point out, the crowds would have gone down or something. Strange.

 

[NE5]

A lot of people don't think Edgar or Taylor are good enough (a few think Faye aswell) so I don't see how a quality centre back is a "trophy" signing.

 

A lot of people didn't realise that Solano was near the end of his career and a lot of people didn't realise that zoggy was still very young and unlikely to play anywhere near a whole season either. But it still didn't stop there personality driven agendas.

 

I don't see how under those circumstances Duff was a "trophy signing " either especially when he was only a Chelsea squad player too.

 

 

 

I will go all "NE5" on you know..

 

I said at the time the Duff money could have been spent better, this is a FACT because he has proven to be shite for us.

 

hindsight

 

What about all that dross we bought last summer that Mort and Ashley sanctioned

 

 

[Dave]

Point proven again. mackems.gif

 

I love this thread, that's three things now.

[NE5]

I don't know why you have put those smillies, its a perfectly valid point and doing it in a discussion like this lets you down a bit, and makes me think you really don't understand this point about showing ambition.

 

I put those smilies because your argument on Aimar makes no sense whatsoever. How can you, I or anyone on this board answer why he didn't come, when we don't even know whether the club wanted him or not? It's complete nonsense. You might as well ask why Ronaldinho didn't come, or why Marcus fucking Bent didn't come.

 

well, why don't the club help themselves and release a statement saying its bollocks and tell us why he didn't want to come ?

 

 

[tmonkey]

Keegan will tell us what he thinks and what he wants but he has certain constraints because he;s the manager, I don't have any doubt that the meeting they had in London was an exchange of views and ideas, but one thing out of it is that Keegan has been told he can't go around saying the club can't get into the top 4 teams. No owner of any company would like that, its correct from Ashleys point of view, and Keegan has to accept it.

 

Keegan didnt say he'd not be able to get us into the top 4. He said we could, but it'd take 4-5 years.

 

I.e. thats how long its going to take to undo the damage the previous board did in overseeing us going from CL qualifiers to a dogshit, relegation threatened club with plenty of s*** players on massive wages and unsustainable huge debts.

 

Which is pretty accurate imo. Hopefully it'll take 2-3 years to undo the damage, but certainly there'll be no quick fix due to our current state and unattractiveness.

 

you mean the same board who got us out of real dogshit and into the Champions League in the first place ?

 

Cherry picking.

 

 

Chairman during Newcastle's rise from possible relegation to the old Third Division to challenging heavily for the title: John Hall.

 

Chairman during Newcastle's fall from title challengers to lower mid table and potential relegation plus huge debts (with one CL "blip" along the way during that slip): Freddy Shepherd.

 

Its not the same board when the key man has left and someone else is promoted to chief.

 

As for cherry picking, im pretty sure you've tried to credit everything positive done during the John Hall era to Shepherd and Hall Jnr.

 

Regardless, I wasnt talking about any previous success - plenty of dogs have their day. Please refer to the fact that Freddy Shepherd oversaw the club's massive slide from potential CL regulars to potential relegation dogfighters, and holds ultimate responsibility for our current position of being an ugly, unattractive club (with respsect to top players) that few take seriously. Any excuses you want to trot out, or are you going to absolve your cousin of any blame?

[Cajun]

Hindsight? I said it WHEN he signed not when he played and was shit. How is that hindsight?

 

 

[Dave]

I don't know why you have put those smillies, its a perfectly valid point and doing it in a discussion like this lets you down a bit, and makes me think you really don't understand this point about showing ambition.

 

I put those smilies because your argument on Aimar makes no sense whatsoever. How can you, I or anyone on this board answer why he didn't come, when we don't even know whether the club wanted him or not? It's complete nonsense. You might as well ask why Ronaldinho didn't come, or why Marcus fucking Bent didn't come.

 

well, why don't the club help themselves and release a statement saying its bollocks and tell us why he didn't want to come ?

 

 

 

So we should release statements explaining why every player we don't sign didn't come here? mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

This gets better and better.

[Cajun]

I don't know why you have put those smillies, its a perfectly valid point and doing it in a discussion like this lets you down a bit, and makes me think you really don't understand this point about showing ambition.

 

I put those smilies because your argument on Aimar makes no sense whatsoever. How can you, I or anyone on this board answer why he didn't come, when we don't even know whether the club wanted him or not? It's complete nonsense. You might as well ask why Ronaldinho didn't come, or why Marcus fucking Bent didn't come.

 

well, why don't the club help themselves and release a statement saying its bollocks and tell us why he didn't want to come ?

 

 

 

and how many times do we expect the club to do this?

 

Most people are prepared to treat this stuff as bollocks until something official is announced.

[NE5]

Point proven again. mackems.gif

 

I love this thread, that's three things now.

 

I'm tying you in knots Dave.......

 

You can't prove me wrong, you won't. What I post is first hand experience.

 

Anyway, I'm off.

 

 

[NE5]

I don't know why you have put those smillies, its a perfectly valid point and doing it in a discussion like this lets you down a bit, and makes me think you really don't understand this point about showing ambition.

 

I put those smilies because your argument on Aimar makes no sense whatsoever. How can you, I or anyone on this board answer why he didn't come, when we don't even know whether the club wanted him or not? It's complete nonsense. You might as well ask why Ronaldinho didn't come, or why Marcus fucking Bent didn't come.

 

well, why don't the club help themselves and release a statement saying its bollocks and tell us why he didn't want to come ?

 

 

 

and how many times do we expect the club to do this?

 

Most people are prepared to treat this stuff as bollocks until something official is announced.

 

as often as necessary !!

 

Have you seen the post about lack of publicity coming back and biting the club on the arse ?

 

 

[Cajun]

So we should expect the club to dismiss every player we are linked to through the summer?

[NE5]

I don't know why you have put those smillies, its a perfectly valid point and doing it in a discussion like this lets you down a bit, and makes me think you really don't understand this point about showing ambition.

 

I put those smilies because your argument on Aimar makes no sense whatsoever. How can you, I or anyone on this board answer why he didn't come, when we don't even know whether the club wanted him or not? It's complete nonsense. You might as well ask why Ronaldinho didn't come, or why Marcus fucking Bent didn't come.

 

well, why don't the club help themselves and release a statement saying its bollocks and tell us why he didn't want to come ?

 

 

 

So we should release statements explaining why every player we don't sign didn't come here? mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

This gets better and better.

 

some of the others must be catching .......... you're beginning to sound like them Dave

 

In denial of the story in the mirror and Mail. Why do nothing if its untrue ?

 

[Guest battyleespeed]

NE5 you are absolutely right to ring the alarm bells.

 

all what i can say is that the top management (mike and his entourage) is playing a very risky game right now by trying to be prudent and cost effective. if they are actually busting their guts trying to bring in new playing assets that KK has identified as ones to make a real difference then all credit for them but all signs do point to lack of ambition in the market and priorization of things like cost-cutting, building academy and recruiting new backroom personnel.

 

why that is very risky and what NE5 is also pointing out... the first team is in absolute shambles and has fallen even more behind others during close and pre-season. cutbacks to the first team that was in relegation fight. its couple weeks to season start and only two bargain basement signings have been brought in. given the current state of affairs with first team premiership survival must be the only target for the upcoming season.

 

this state of affairs would be more acceptable if the top management would actually demonstrate real determination to go out there and sign quality players that can make a difference this season. at the end its all down to mike as he is the money man but for some reasons he has chickened out and now speaks about "partners" and "investors" to "share the costs" of rebuilding the club. the question has to be why mike hasn't taken 2-3 names from KK who he considers to be the most important players for the upcoming season... and instruct his people to go hell-bent to get those players at all costs. even if without a concrete result at least there would be right kind of smoke for all to see. kk thinks owen is the most important "signing" of the season but the club is still haggling over a salary cut.... now that is the smoke we see.

 

i'd bet that come january there will be, yet again, exercise in crisis management.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

NE5 you are absolutely right to ring the alarm bells.

 

all what i can say is that the top management (mike and his entourage) is playing a very risky game right now by trying to be prudent and cost effective. if they are actually busting their guts trying to bring in new playing assets that KK has identified as ones to make a real difference then all credit for them but all signs do point to lack of ambition in the market and priorization of things like cost-cutting, building academy and recruiting new backroom personnel.

 

why that is very risky and what NE5 is also pointing out... the first team is in absolute shambles and has fallen even more behind others during close and pre-season. cutbacks to the first team that was in relegation fight. its couple weeks to season start and only two bargain basement signings have been brought in. given the current state of affairs with first team premiership survival must be the only target for the upcoming season.

 

this state of affairs would be more acceptable if the top management would actually demonstrate real determination to go out there and sign quality players that can make a difference this season. at the end its all down to mike as he is the money man but for some reasons he has chickened out and now speaks about "partners" and "investors" to "share the costs" of rebuilding the club. the question has to be why mike hasn't taken 2-3 names from KK who he considers to be the most important players for the upcoming season... and instruct his people to go hell-bent to get those players at all costs. even if without a concrete result at least there would be right kind of smoke for all to see. kk thinks owen is the most important "signing" of the season but the club is still haggling over a salary cut.... now that is the smoke we see.

 

i'd bet that come january there will be, yet again, exercise in crisis management.

 

despite my "pessimists are never disappointed" attitude to this transfer window i guess secretly i've been holding out subconscious hope ashley will stick two fingers up to everyone and bring in the players we NEED

 

KK's comments the other day about making up for quality & quantity in the squad by being the fittest team in the league was like a sucker punch to the kidneys to be honest

 

suggests to me if we are signing anyone it'll be limited, i.e. a coloccini & a warnock and that'll be it...i now hold out virtually no hope of seeing a good midfielder or new striker arrive at the club, long season coming boys and girls

[NE5]

Keegan will tell us what he thinks and what he wants but he has certain constraints because he;s the manager, I don't have any doubt that the meeting they had in London was an exchange of views and ideas, but one thing out of it is that Keegan has been told he can't go around saying the club can't get into the top 4 teams. No owner of any company would like that, its correct from Ashleys point of view, and Keegan has to accept it.

 

Keegan didnt say he'd not be able to get us into the top 4. He said we could, but it'd take 4-5 years.

 

I.e. thats how long its going to take to undo the damage the previous board did in overseeing us going from CL qualifiers to a dogshit, relegation threatened club with plenty of s*** players on massive wages and unsustainable huge debts.

 

Which is pretty accurate imo. Hopefully it'll take 2-3 years to undo the damage, but certainly there'll be no quick fix due to our current state and unattractiveness.

 

you mean the same board who got us out of real dogshit and into the Champions League in the first place ?

 

Cherry picking.

 

 

Chairman during Newcastle's rise from possible relegation to the old Third Division to challenging heavily for the title: John Hall.

 

Chairman during Newcastle's fall from title challengers to lower mid table and potential relegation plus huge debts (with one CL "blip" along the way during that slip): Freddy Shepherd.

 

Its not the same board when the key man has left and someone else is promoted to chief.

 

As for cherry picking, im pretty sure you've tried to credit everything positive done during the John Hall era to Shepherd and Hall Jnr.

 

Regardless, I wasnt talking about any previous success - plenty of dogs have their day. Please refer to the fact that Freddy Shepherd oversaw the club's massive slide from potential CL regulars to potential relegation dogfighters, and holds ultimate responsibility for our current position of being an ugly, unattractive club (with respsect to top players) that few take seriously. Any excuses you want to trot out, or are you going to absolve your cousin of any blame?

 

you think the chairman has complete control do you  mackems.gif

 

its been said before too, quite amazing that you still insist Hall Jnr, Fletcher and Shepherd were responsible for appointing Keegan, not Hall Snr who didn't want him, when he said so in his own book and its been repeated so many times.

 

Not to mention that you think the Halls allowed Shepherd to control the club all on his own.

 

Ugly and unattractive club ? haha, don't be daft man. Anyway, you are moving this over to the old board, and even I can say that this is not what this is supposed to be about, its about Les Ferdinand giving his opinion on where the club is going.

 

 

[thedudeabides]

A lot of people don't think Edgar or Taylor are good enough (a few think Faye aswell) so I don't see how a quality centre back is a "trophy" signing.

 

A lot of people didn't realise that Solano was near the end of his career and a lot of people didn't realise that zoggy was still very young and unlikely to play anywhere near a whole season either. But it still didn't stop there personality driven agendas.

 

I don't see how under those circumstances Duff was a "trophy signing " either especially when he was only a Chelsea squad player too.

 

 

 

I will go all "NE5" on you know..

 

I said at the time the Duff money could have been spent better, this is a FACT because he has proven to be s**** for us.

 

hindsight

 

What about all that dross we bought last summer that Mort and Ashley sanctioned

 

 

Bought by Shepherd's man Big Sam nontheless.

 

Maybe Mort should have overruled his manager like Shepherd did with Robson?