tmonkey Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. The ultimate responsibility should always lie with those at the top. After all, it's their job. However, im a tad curious about something. What happened to "mistakes happen" and "forgive and forget"? Ashley made a mistake and it resulted in someone as stubborn as they are important to the club in walking out. A mistake made by an owner new to the game itself, an owner with good intentions for the club, with money ready to subsidise the club, with a good policy and plan for the long term running of the club, unlike those before him who had amassed serious debts and an awful playing squad contrary to their dillusional statements. So what do our fans do? We run around screaming for his head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 f*** West Ham, who gives a s*** about them. Agreed!! The W Ham situation has 'similarities' to ours, but it is not the same. Also (as said above) who gives a (flying) s*** about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I agree with tmonkey on this, although it was a bit of a catch 22 situation. Either keep quiet and let the club be run in a way that isn't working (at the moment) or kick up a fuss and find ourselves in the situation we are in now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable? the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things. Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. The ultimate responsibility should always lie with those at the top. After all, it's their job. However, im a tad curious about something. What happened to "mistakes happen" and "forgive and forget"? Ashley made a mistake and it resulted in someone as stubborn as they are important to the club in walking out. A mistake made by an owner new to the game itself, an owner with good intentions for the club, with money ready to subsidise the club, with a good policy and plan for the long term running of the club, unlike those before him who had amassed serious debts and an awful playing squad contrary to their dillusional statements. So what do our fans do? We run around screaming for his head. Some of the above appears to involve the use of large rose-coloured spectacles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 ..... So, aside from the conspiracy theory, how is that not because of the fans? Because its bollocks - he's been trying to sell the club for months and his shit about being a football fan is just that - he was 23 when he "started watching England" or however he put it - who the fuck did he support when he was a kid then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Do you have proof of all this? I know he said it in his mag interview but this system of his has done nothing but bad and this debt payment is him increasing the value of the club either way you spin it. As for good intentions, like getting pissed in New York when all this was going tits up? Or how about undermining his manager, surely if you want whats best for the club you don't allow that to happen, not when you've stated the manager has final say anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 with money ready to subsidise the club, with a good policy and plan for the long term running of the club, unlike those before him who had amassed serious debts and an awful playing squad contrary to their dillusional statements. So what do our fans do? We run around screaming for his head. No evidence of subsidy that apart from in the statement - £9m in 3 transfer windows. No squad improvement this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable? the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things. Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. and which 'one' was that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Ok I am sure he is willing to right off hundreds of millions of pounds just to get back at those nasty people who called him a cockney. As I said, he isn't going to write off a penny. Not a penny. Letting us rot (wasting our season) will not lose him a penny. What makes you think it would? It will like, Owen leaving will drop the value of the club by 10-15 million on its own. Then what happens if we get relegated, not that I think for a second we would, but lets say we're left managerless all season and the injuries stay bad, its possible and would quarter the price of the club, or worse. Nope Ashley wouldn't risk losing £1.50 to get revenge on Newcastle fans, never mind millions of pounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The squad hasn't improved this summer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable? the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things. Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. I would love the club to tell us in great detail, what they did between Keegan resigning and the Hull match to replace him. As far as I am aware, nothing has been done and its now the fucking 20th of September. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable? the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things. Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. and which 'one' was that? humour me..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The squad hasn't improved this summer? Yes - Guttierez is the only position we have improved in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Ok I am sure he is willing to right off hundreds of millions of pounds just to get back at those nasty people who called him a cockney. As I said, he isn't going to write off a penny. Not a penny. Letting us rot (wasting our season) will not lose him a penny. What makes you think it would? It will like, Owen leaving will drop the value of the club by 10-15 million on its own. Then what happens if we get relegated, not that I think for a second we would, but lets say we're left managerless all season and the injuries stay bad, its possible and would quarter the price of the club, or worse. The club is an asset that has a certain value. That value will not be affected by (as I say) letting us rot for a season or two or three. I agree, if we were relegated it would, but I am sure that they will do enough (just enough) to ensure that does not happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. Go on..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The responsibility for what happened is spread around quite a few people/groups, including the fans. But 99.99% of the responsibility lies with the owner. He made the decisions, at various stages, that caused this to happen in the way that it did. The buck stops with the owner. So if he is at fault which to be honest i can agree with ( he shouldnt of employed keegan in the first place, naiveity, etc,etc), does that mean that it is still right to try and force him out after one mistake - albeit a massive one, which wouldnt of affected the club massively had he follwed up with a good appointment which was perfectly viable? the protests just seemed so disproportionate to the issue in the grand scheme of things. Keegan is replaceable there are better managers out there and there are managers out there who have achieved more than him who would of been interested in the job. and which 'one' was that? humour me..... I appreciate you want me to do your work for you . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 with money ready to subsidise the club, with a good policy and plan for the long term running of the club, unlike those before him who had amassed serious debts and an awful playing squad contrary to their dillusional statements. So what do our fans do? We run around screaming for his head. Don't fall for that subsidise bollocks man. Also have you seen the state of our team at the moment, yes our squad quality has improved a bit this season, but we needed much more. Something Keegan told them no doubt, but Wise and his mates knew better.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Coloccini? Guthrie will give more to the team and squad than Emre. Xisco has pushed Smith and Shola further away from the first 11. Bassong looks better than Ramage. Can't comment on Nacho yet. Nile Ranger has brought more joy to the forum than anything else in recent years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 West Ham also appointed a new manager in about 7 days and in the interim period, were telling the fans, through the media, how the appointment process was going So because we haven't done it in 7 days, or communicated with the fans as well as others, we should lynch those running the club? Certainly Ashley & Co have made some major mistakes, things could and should have been done alot better, but the point here is that the ridiculous overreaction by the fans did have a significant part to play in the current situation whereby we have a temporary manager unable to do the job required and no desire by those in charge to change that situation anytime soon. I m absolutely convinced that if the club had spoken to the fans 2 or 3 times in the period between Kevin walking out and the Hull match, the protests that took place would not have been anywhere near as well supported. I think they knew that would happen and played on it. They saw what the instant reaction was and must have realised that it was going to build and build until the next home game. They had a responsibility to calm things down. Instead, their silence and that f***ing ridiculous FACT statement on the web site just fanned the flames. Do that to a set of football fans and you should never be surprised with the reaction your going to get. I am not condoing the (non-violent) protests, but it was always going to happen That statement on the website was indeed ridiculous, and did fan the flames. But maybe it was made to try and put the flames out, but was done so to an extremely incompetent degree? For example, had Ashley's current statement been put up (minus the "im selling part) instead of the "Fact" statement, then things would have been alot clearer about the differences between the two parties. Unfortunately, a mistake was made, maybe a severe lack of communication played its part in it, etc etc. Its also woth noting that on the face of it, the club had waited for Ashley to get back from New York before he could meet with Kevin Keegan in what may have been an attempt to get him back. On the day that news broke about the possibilty of Keegan returning, plenty of Ashley's critics had admitted that this would be a great move, a sensible one. The fact that it failed could have been down to a number of reasons, e.g. maybe Keegan wanted more money to spend in order to do his job, or disagreed with the policy of scouting the world for talent instead of signing expensive Premiership proven players? Who knows. We dont know what happened during that period, and therefore its difficult to come to a conclusion as to what the club, or those running it, were trying to do. Anything else is pure conjecture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The squad hasn't improved this summer? Yes - Guttierez is the only position we have improved in. Coloccini? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Coloccini? 5 words: Abdoulaye Faye and Carlton Fucking Cole. Guthrie will give more to the team and squad than Emre. No differnce - Guthrie will play more but is nowhere near the player Emre was (on his very rare days) The others are just like for like. We needed better players and lots of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Ok I am sure he is willing to right off hundreds of millions of pounds just to get back at those nasty people who called him a cockney. As I said, he isn't going to write off a penny. Not a penny. Letting us rot (wasting our season) will not lose him a penny. What makes you think it would? It will like, Owen leaving will drop the value of the club by 10-15 million on its own. Then what happens if we get relegated, not that I think for a second we would, but lets say we're left managerless all season and the injuries stay bad, its possible and would quarter the price of the club, or worse. The club is an asset that has a certain value. That value will not be affected by (as I say) letting us rot for a season or two or three. I agree, if we were relegated it would, but I am sure that they will do enough (just enough) to ensure that does not happen. Not really, the value of a Football club can change very easily depending on success, playing staff and revenue and many other factors. As I said Owen going for nowt would chop at least £10 million of the value of the club. Season ticket sales dropping in half next season would drop far more off the value, and it would happen in the case you're talking about. Right now he might be able to get £250 million for us, leave the club to rot for a few seasons and he can forget at least £100 million of that as the likes of Owen, Martins, Given ect leave, the team continually flirts with relegation and the fans either stop turning up almost completely or end up murdering the fucker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Coloccini? 5 words: Abdoulaye Faye and Carlton f***ing Cole Abdoulaye Faye is as good as Coloccini is he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Libertine Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 the fans have come across the worst in this whole thing. i've been quite ashamed to call myself one recently. there are reasons why we're a national joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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