Newcastle United Finances - 2008 Accounts Recently Filed

[Guest fading star]

 

Im not sure how to argue that point, seems a bit of a moot point really. second part is pure specualtion as well and something else which i dont think i can argue either.

 

How do you view the Modric bid and the bid for Woodgate? What about Collocinni? Arent they substantial bids and purchases?

 

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate.

 

I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy  which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe.

 

Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money.

 

If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is.

 

 

Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich.

 

Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white?

 

 

Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap.

 

f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong.

 

If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread.

The figure I put forward was £25m.

and where was this £25mill to come from ?

Out of the £600m Mike has in the bank, assuming he wasn’t wiling to sell his house to pay for a decent left back.

[madras]

 

Im not sure how to argue that point, seems a bit of a moot point really. second part is pure specualtion as well and something else which i dont think i can argue either.

 

How do you view the Modric bid and the bid for Woodgate? What about Collocinni? Arent they substantial bids and purchases?

 

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate.

 

I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy  which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe.

 

Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money.

 

If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is.

 

 

Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich.

 

Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white?

 

 

Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap.

 

f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong.

 

If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread.

The figure I put forward was £25m.

and where was this £25mill to come from ?

 

How do other clubs buy players? Genuine question, I know nowt about finance but I know Liverpool and Man Utd are swimming in debt but still spend big money on players. Why have the administrators not been called in there?

they have operating profit, makes it easier to finance

[madras]

 

Im not sure how to argue that point, seems a bit of a moot point really. second part is pure specualtion as well and something else which i dont think i can argue either.

 

How do you view the Modric bid and the bid for Woodgate? What about Collocinni? Arent they substantial bids and purchases?

 

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate.

 

I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy  which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe.

 

Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money.

 

If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is.

 

 

Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich.

 

Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white?

 

 

Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap.

 

f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong.

 

If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread.

The figure I put forward was £25m.

and where was this £25mill to come from ?

Out of the £600m Mike has in the bank, assuming he wasn’t wiling to sell his house to pay for a decent left back.

is it your money ? should you tell someone where to put there money when they've already put quite a bit your way ?

[Jayson]

I think Ashley is under the assumption that we will stay in the league regardless...so wouldnt spend much even if he had it. Thats the feeling i get....Kinnear claimed he had to have a meeting with Ashley & Wise two weeks into the transfer window to "explain" how bad our situation was. That fills me with a lot of doubt over their awareness of how dangerously close we are to getting relegated this season. We're playing badly now against bad teams...we have Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea & Man Utd home games all in a row coming up. We're 2 points off the very bottom.....a bad run for us with other teams picking up points...we could be out of it soon. Thats a far far to realistic possiblity.

 

Especially when you imagine the negative reaction that would create in the fans faith in the management, the players, the players own confidence etc. Last season the boost of Keegan got us going again.....this season...the way newcastle play.....if we hit bottom....i dont see us as a side that will be able to pull ourselves out of that on our performances over the last few seasons.

 

No one except Barton looks to have any real passion.....as Kinnear has said he could be key for us.

 

Its clear that a lot of criticism directed towards Ashley has been unfair now these accounts have come out.

 

But when you get back to the core of the situation at present, the choices he makes in this transfer window will ultimately determine peoples perception of him.

If he fails to risk some investment in the first team to stop us from being relegated because of our tiny squad... or the mental boost some new players might give the others around them and we do get relegated...

 

Only he can be blamed...and he'll lose a whole lot of money while we suffer the consequences with him.

 

If we dont get anyone else in this window, we're in serious danger surely.

[Kitman]

I think Ashley is under the assumption that we will stay in the league regardless...so wouldnt spend much even if he had it. Thats the feeling i get....Kinnear claimed he had to have a meeting with Ashley & Wise two weeks into the transfer window to "explain" how bad our situation was. That fills me with a lot of doubt over their awareness of how dangerously close we are to getting relegated this season. We're playing badly now against bad teams...we have Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea & Man Utd home games all in a row coming up. We're 2 points off the very bottom.....a bad run for us with other teams picking up points...we could be out of it soon. Thats a far far to realistic possiblity.

 

Especially when you imagine the negative reaction that would create in the fans faith in the management, the players, the players own confidence etc. Last season the boost of Keegan got us going again.....this season...the way newcastle play.....if we hit bottom....i dont see us as a side that will be able to pull ourselves out of that on our performances over the last few seasons.

 

No one except Barton looks to have any real passion.....as Kinnear has said he could be key for us.

 

Its clear that a lot of criticism directed towards Ashley has been unfair now these accounts have come out.

 

But when you get back to the core of the situation at present, the choices he makes in this transfer window will ultimately determine peoples perception of him.

If he fails to risk some investment in the first team to stop us from being relegated because of our tiny squad... or the mental boost some new players might give the others around them and we do get relegated...

 

Only he can be blamed...and he'll lose a whole lot of money while we suffer the consequences with him.

 

If we dont get anyone else in this window, we're in serious danger surely.

 

Good post.  Be interesting to see whether clubs like West Ham spend this transfer window too.

[Wullie]

 

Im not sure how to argue that point, seems a bit of a moot point really. second part is pure specualtion as well and something else which i dont think i can argue either.

 

How do you view the Modric bid and the bid for Woodgate? What about Collocinni? Arent they substantial bids and purchases?

 

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate.

 

I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy  which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe.

 

Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money.

 

If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is.

 

 

Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich.

 

Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white?

 

 

Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap.

 

f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong.

 

If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread.

The figure I put forward was £25m.

and where was this £25mill to come from ?

 

How do other clubs buy players? Genuine question, I know nowt about finance but I know Liverpool and Man Utd are swimming in debt but still spend big money on players. Why have the administrators not been called in there?

they have operating profit, makes it easier to finance

 

But don't Liverpool have a debt stretching into the hundreds of millions? In 2006 they turned a profit of £7m (can't find more recent figures) - unless they've found a massive profit-making exercise in the meantime, I can't imagine the banks are too happy with that.

[ChezGiven]

Wullie, the reason i asked earlier about the enterprise value of the club was because it helps explain why man u can have debt and invest. The cash in is bigger than the cash out on an annual basis. 

 

As for analysing the structure of ashley's wealth, thats exactly what you SHOULD be doing. If 600m is held in devaluing equity then the question of where 25m is coming from is a very pertinent one. Especially if one of your biggest assets cant pay for itself. 

[Guest fading star]

Signed for Spurs. Signed for Spurs. Desperation.

 

 

True, true, How?

Overpriced panic buy.

 

[Mick]

Overpriced panic buy.

 

We paid £10 million for an international defender, I hardly think he was overpriced.  As for being a panic buy, we signed him in early August and have been after him for more than a month.

 

[Wullie]

Wullie, the reason i asked earlier about the enterprise value of the club was because it helps explain why man u can have debt and invest. The cash in is bigger than the cash out on an annual basis.

 

As for analysing the structure of ashley's wealth, thats exactly what you SHOULD be doing. If 600m is held in devaluing equity then the question of where 25m is coming from is a very pertinent one. Especially if one of your biggest assets cant pay for itself.

 

But putting aside Ashley's personal wealth, should a club of our size not be able to fund transfers of its own accord?

 

These latest figures don't make good reading and show what a mess Shepherd left us in but they do show a club shorn of debt (other than to its owner which we can ignore for the time being) which makes us one of the very few in the league in that state iirc. Seeing as much of the "loss" is this amortisation business, which is a paper loss rather than cash, these figures look to me (as someone who knows jack shit about it so please put me right) like we are one of the few clubs who can actually afford to spend rather than the other way on - especially when they don't include three season's worth of ST money from at least 25000 people (my guess).

 

Can someone explain to me: if we can't afford to buy anyone, how the fuck can anyone else (obvious exceptions, Villa, City, Chelsea apart)?

[Mick]

 

But putting aside Ashley's personal wealth, should a club of our size not be able to fund transfers of its own accord?

 

These latest figures don't make good reading and show what a mess Shepherd left us in but they do show a club shorn of debt (other than to its owner which we can ignore for the time being) which makes us one of the very few in the league in that state iirc. Seeing as much of the "loss" is this amortisation business, which is a paper loss rather than cash, these figures look to me (as someone who knows jack s*** about it so please put me right) like we are one of the few clubs who can actually afford to spend rather than the other way on - especially when they don't include three season's worth of ST money from at least 25000 people (my guess).

 

Can someone explain to me: if we can't afford to buy anyone, how the f*** can anyone else (obvious exceptions, Villa, City, Chelsea apart)?

 

Player amortisation isn't a paper loss, if we buy a player for £10 million over 4 years then it's shown on the accounts as £2.5 million per year.  We could also be paying the transfer fee over the whole period of the contract.

 

As for how others can afford transfers, no idea other than they're probably borrowing and have a surplus between money coming in and money going out.  We've got no room to borrow as we have more going out than coming in so we have nothing to pay a loan back with.

[Guest fading star]

Overpriced panic buy.

 

We paid £10 million for an international defender, I hardly think he was overpriced.  As for being a panic buy, we signed him in early August and have been after him for more than a month.

 

The season started in mid August, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. It was the lack of options that induced the panic. It was Collocini or nobody, such was the effectiveness of our scouting system.

[ShearMagic]

Wullie, the reason i asked earlier about the enterprise value of the club was because it helps explain why man u can have debt and invest. The cash in is bigger than the cash out on an annual basis. 

 

As for analysing the structure of ashley's wealth, thats exactly what you SHOULD be doing. If 600m is held in devaluing equity then the question of where 25m is coming from is a very pertinent one. Especially if one of your biggest assets cant pay for itself. 

 

But putting aside Ashley's personal wealth, should a club of our size not be able to fund transfers of its own accord?

 

These latest figures don't make good reading and show what a mess Shepherd left us in but they do show a club shorn of debt (other than to its owner which we can ignore for the time being) which makes us one of the very few in the league in that state iirc. Seeing as much of the "loss" is this amortisation business, which is a paper loss rather than cash, these figures look to me (as someone who knows jack shit about it so please put me right) like we are one of the few clubs who can actually afford to spend rather than the other way on - especially when they don't include three season's worth of ST money from at least 25000 people (my guess).

 

Can someone explain to me: if we can't afford to buy anyone, how the fuck can anyone else (obvious exceptions, Villa, City, Chelsea apart)?

 

I'm not sure that the three years worth of season tickets will make a huge difference.

 

If the club is smart, that will be going on their accounts per year, because it's stupid to put it all on one year, meaning that in one year we're going to have lots from season tickets, yet in other years we're going to have nothing.

 

Plus, with the stadium hardly selling out these days, there's somewhere between 5,000 - 7,000 tickets going spare, which at 35 quid a pop (on average) is somewhere between £175,000 and £245,000 each match that's not getting paid in, that would have been in previous seasons.

[Mick]

The season started in mid August, but youre barking up the wrong tree. It was the lack of options that induced the panic. It was Collocini or nobody, such was the effectiveness of our scouting system.

 

How do you know that it was Coloccini or nobody?

[ChezGiven]

Like west ham or pompey? 

 

Or stoke and hull? Who have just come into sky money but were operating on championship wages. 

 

 

[merlin]

I think Ashley is under the assumption that we will stay in the league regardless...so wouldnt spend much even if he had it. Thats the feeling i get....Kinnear claimed he had to have a meeting with Ashley & Wise two weeks into the transfer window to "explain" how bad our situation was. That fills me with a lot of doubt over their awareness of how dangerously close we are to getting relegated this season. We're playing badly now against bad teams...we have Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea & Man Utd home games all in a row coming up. We're 2 points off the very bottom.....a bad run for us with other teams picking up points...we could be out of it soon. Thats a far far to realistic possiblity.

 

Especially when you imagine the negative reaction that would create in the fans faith in the management, the players, the players own confidence etc. Last season the boost of Keegan got us going again.....this season...the way newcastle play.....if we hit bottom....i dont see us as a side that will be able to pull ourselves out of that on our performances over the last few seasons.

 

No one except Barton looks to have any real passion.....as Kinnear has said he could be key for us.

 

Its clear that a lot of criticism directed towards Ashley has been unfair now these accounts have come out.

 

But when you get back to the core of the situation at present, the choices he makes in this transfer window will ultimately determine peoples perception of him.

If he fails to risk some investment in the first team to stop us from being relegated because of our tiny squad... or the mental boost some new players might give the others around them and we do get relegated...

 

Only he can be blamed...and he'll lose a whole lot of money while we suffer the consequences with him.

 

If we dont get anyone else in this window, we're in serious danger surely.

 

A very good post Jayson - this sums up the whole situation very well.

 

I agree with most, if not all, of your points and would add that Ashley is mainly responsible for appointing the wrong staff to run the club ; furthermore, he has shown bad judgment and appalling management skills by alllowing the Keegan walk-out to be finalised - anyone with half a brain would have realised the drastic effect such an event would have on both fans and players at the start of the season.

I believe that KK could have been talked round, and although it may have cost Ashley by having to fire Wise, it would have probably ensured the club would remain in the Prem, although only just, because the team is patently NOT good enough...the turmoil at the season's start has wrecked morale and this could have been prevented.

So, despite the good work he has done to put the club on a better financial footing, Ashley has messed-up big time.

[Guest fading star]

Wullie, the reason i asked earlier about the enterprise value of the club was because it helps explain why man u can have debt and invest. The cash in is bigger than the cash out on an annual basis. 

 

As for analysing the structure of ashley's wealth, thats exactly what you SHOULD be doing. If 600m is held in devaluing equity then the question of where 25m is coming from is a very pertinent one. Especially if one of your biggest assets cant pay for itself. 

 

But putting aside Ashley's personal wealth, should a club of our size not be able to fund transfers of its own accord?

 

These latest figures don't make good reading and show what a mess Shepherd left us in but they do show a club shorn of debt (other than to its owner which we can ignore for the time being) which makes us one of the very few in the league in that state iirc. Seeing as much of the "loss" is this amortisation business, which is a paper loss rather than cash, these figures look to me (as someone who knows jack s*** about it so please put me right) like we are one of the few clubs who can actually afford to spend rather than the other way on - especially when they don't include three season's worth of ST money from at least 25000 people (my guess).

 

Can someone explain to me: if we can't afford to buy anyone, how the f*** can anyone else (obvious exceptions, Villa, City, Chelsea apart)?

The club is debt free but can’t compete with Hull in the transfer market??? Another Ashley contradiction.

 

Earlier today Sunderland got about 22,000 in for their fourth round FA cup replay against Blackburn. A week ago Newcastle pulled in 30,000 for their third round tie with Hull. SAFC have spent about £50,000,000 over the last two season. NUFC have spent £5000.

 

Outspent by Sunderland. Less attractive than Hull. Shepherd’s financial failings alone don’t account for the gravity of our fall.

[Guest fading star]

The season started in mid August, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. It was the lack of options that induced the panic. It was Collocini or nobody, such was the effectiveness of our scouting system.

 

How do you know that it was Coloccini or nobody?

Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked with?

[Baggio]

Wullie, the reason i asked earlier about the enterprise value of the club was because it helps explain why man u can have debt and invest. The cash in is bigger than the cash out on an annual basis. 

 

As for analysing the structure of ashley's wealth, thats exactly what you SHOULD be doing. If 600m is held in devaluing equity then the question of where 25m is coming from is a very pertinent one. Especially if one of your biggest assets cant pay for itself. 

 

But putting aside Ashley's personal wealth, should a club of our size not be able to fund transfers of its own accord?

 

These latest figures don't make good reading and show what a mess Shepherd left us in but they do show a club shorn of debt (other than to its owner which we can ignore for the time being) which makes us one of the very few in the league in that state iirc. Seeing as much of the "loss" is this amortisation business, which is a paper loss rather than cash, these figures look to me (as someone who knows jack s*** about it so please put me right) like we are one of the few clubs who can actually afford to spend rather than the other way on - especially when they don't include three season's worth of ST money from at least 25000 people (my guess).

 

Can someone explain to me: if we can't afford to buy anyone, how the f*** can anyone else (obvious exceptions, Villa, City, Chelsea apart)?

The club is debt free but can’t compete with Hull in the transfer market??? Another Ashley contradiction.

 

Earlier today Sunderland got about 22,000 in for their fourth round FA cup replay against Blackburn. A week ago Newcastle pulled in 30,000 for their third round tie with Hull. SAFC have spent about £50,000,000 over the last two season. NUFC have spent £5000.

 

Outspent by Sunderland. Less attractive than Hull. Shepherd’s financial failings alone don’t account for the gravity of our fall.

 

Sunderland raised money for transfers first from a share option when Drummaville bought them and by reissuing more shares in the Summer, which is when the American bought in.

 

You did know that I take it?

[fredbob]

I think Ashley is under the assumption that we will stay in the league regardless...so wouldnt spend much even if he had it. Thats the feeling i get....Kinnear claimed he had to have a meeting with Ashley & Wise two weeks into the transfer window to "explain" how bad our situation was. That fills me with a lot of doubt over their awareness of how dangerously close we are to getting relegated this season. We're playing badly now against bad teams...we have Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea & Man Utd home games all in a row coming up. We're 2 points off the very bottom.....a bad run for us with other teams picking up points...we could be out of it soon. Thats a far far to realistic possiblity.

 

Especially when you imagine the negative reaction that would create in the fans faith in the management, the players, the players own confidence etc. Last season the boost of Keegan got us going again.....this season...the way newcastle play.....if we hit bottom....i dont see us as a side that will be able to pull ourselves out of that on our performances over the last few seasons.

 

No one except Barton looks to have any real passion.....as Kinnear has said he could be key for us.

 

Its clear that a lot of criticism directed towards Ashley has been unfair now these accounts have come out.

 

But when you get back to the core of the situation at present, the choices he makes in this transfer window will ultimately determine peoples perception of him.

If he fails to risk some investment in the first team to stop us from being relegated because of our tiny squad... or the mental boost some new players might give the others around them and we do get relegated...

 

Only he can be blamed...and he'll lose a whole lot of money while we suffer the consequences with him.

 

If we dont get anyone else in this window, we're in serious danger surely.

 

A very good post Jayson - this sums up the whole situation very well.

 

I agree with most, if not all, of your points and would add that Ashley is mainly responsible for appointing the wrong staff to run the club ; furthermore, he has shown bad judgment and appalling management skills by alllowing the Keegan walk-out to be finalised - anyone with half a brain would have realised the drastic effect such an event would have on both fans and players at the start of the season.

I believe that KK could have been talked round, and although it may have cost Ashley by having to fire Wise, it would have probably ensured the club would remain in the Prem, although only just, because the team is patently NOT good enough...the turmoil at the season's start has wrecked morale and this could have been prevented.

So, despite the good work he has done to put the club on a better financial footing, Ashley has messed-up big time.

 

Your post discount the idea that problems may have been caused by Keegan in this whole farce, the accounts show the neccesity of having the "transfer team" becasue they're ensuring that the money is going further, which is vital.

 

Ashley 2 major mistakes have been appointing Keegan and poor communication.

[Mick]

Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked?

 

OK, I understand, because I don't know of anybody else then we mustn't have had any other targets.

[fredbob]

The season started in mid August, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. It was the lack of options that induced the panic. It was Collocini or nobody, such was the effectiveness of our scouting system.

 

How do you know that it was Coloccini or nobody?

Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked with?

 

So basically your saying we went after Colo and got our man?

[Guest fading star]

Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked?

 

OK, I understand, because I don't know of anybody else then we mustn't have had any other targets.

That and limiting our search for players to Spain.

[fredbob]

Who else were we looking at? Which names were we being heavily linked?

 

OK, I understand, because I don't know of anybody else then we mustn't have had any other targets.

That and limiting our search for players to Spain.

 

Fucking, you're relentless, ive never heard so much rubbish come out of one persons mouth over such a short period of time. How old are you? I want to say zitty teen but im not entirely sure.

[Mick]

That and limiting our search for players to Spain.

 

Where in Spain did Guthrie and Bassong come from?