Shepherd plans Toon takeover - Doesn't make for pretty reading

[Guest Cyberbats]

[ it's been known for a while that Shepherd's hands have been tied on a lot of things by Douglas Hall and it would be interesting to see how he does things if he had complete control, an example being that I've always thought Douglas Hall was the reason behind such high dividends being paid.

 

 

 

You can usually tell when a statement has no foundation when the author starts with .... its been known....

 

What a load of hoooew !

 

I doubt whether Douglas Hall has learned how to tie his own shoe laces yet.

 

If it isn't bad enough that our Chairman is the Uncle Fester to his brother Bruce's Gomez, Dougie Hall doesn't have the business acumen of a common housefly with whom incidently he seems to have more in common with than just a poor record in business.

[NE5]

[ it's been known for a while that Shepherd's hands have been tied on a lot of things by Douglas Hall and it would be interesting to see how he does things if he had complete control, an example being that I've always thought Douglas Hall was the reason behind such high dividends being paid.

 

 

 

You can usually tell when a statement has no foundation when the author starts with .... its been known....

 

What a load of hoooew !

 

I doubt whether Douglas Hall has learned how to tie his own shoe laces yet.

 

If it isn't bad enough that our Chairman is the Uncle Fester to his brother Bruce's Gomez, Dougie Hall doesn't have the business acumen of a common housefly with whom incidently he seems to have more in common with than just a poor record in business.

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

[Baggio]

[ it's been known for a while that Shepherd's hands have been tied on a lot of things by Douglas Hall and it would be interesting to see how he does things if he had complete control, an example being that I've always thought Douglas Hall was the reason behind such high dividends being paid.

 

 

 

You can usually tell when a statement has no foundation when the author starts with .... its been known....

 

What a load of hoooew !

 

I doubt whether Douglas Hall has learned how to tie his own shoe laces yet.

 

If it isn't bad enough that our Chairman is the Uncle Fester to his brother Bruce's Gomez, Dougie Hall doesn't have the business acumen of a common housefly with whom incidently he seems to have more in common with than just a poor record in business.

 

When I say it's been known I mean to myself personally from things said by Sir Bobby in his book, he talks about Hall being the main power behind the scenes at the club and believes it was him who was behind his sacking.

 

To quote his book...

 

Although Freddy Shepherd and Douglas Hall had appointed me, I saw very little of Douglas in the first season, or, indeed, throughout my five years in charge of Newcastle. He was something of a recluse as far as the staff were concerned. He would come to the club sometimes and I wouldn't even know he was there. He didn't once ask to see me in five years. At the same time, I knew how immensely powerful he was within the club. He called many of the shots. It would not surprise me if, in the summer of 2004 when Newcastle threw me aside, he encouraged Freddy Shepherd to give me the sack.

 

Unless Sir Bobby is full of hoooew ! too.

[Guest Cyberbats]

 

 

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

 

This isn't the old ... Shepherd is better than what came before him so he's a genius... load of tired old nonsense is it ?

 

Charles Manson wasn't quite as nasty as Adolf Hitler, but I wouldn't want him as my next door neighbour, my bank manager or my football club chairman !!!

 

[Captain Underpants]

Freddy Shepherd has vowed the fans calling for his head will not deter him from his mission as Newcastle United chairman...

 

To step down only when the Magpies finally win a major trophy.

 

With United languishing in the league, supporters have vented their fury on the man at the top at St James's Park.

 

And with the Jersey-based Belgravia Group linked with a takeover bid for the club, many question why Shepherd would want to stand his corner for much longer.

 

But the man himself insists his motivation for staying put is the desire to deliver on an ageing promise to bring silverware to Tyneside.

 

He remains confident that Glenn Roeder - the manager he is backing to the hilt - can yet fulfil that dream this season.

 

And he has fired a broadside at the Belgravia Group and others who have made noises about buying United without putting an offer on the table.

 

"I took over as chairman with a mission to win a trophy - and I'm not going to be knocked off that," Shepherd told the Sunday Sun. "It's more than 50 years since we won a major domestic trophy and 37 years since we won our only European honour, and if I can end that dreadful run then that will be the time for me to walk away.

 

"And we are still involved in three cup competitions, so I would like to think that we could win something this season.

 

Shepherd admitted: "It has proved a more difficult, elusive task to win a trophy than I thought it would be when I first joined the board 14 years ago.

 

"But you have to remember that when I joined the board, nothing had been won for 23 years and nothing had been done to the ground or the training facilities.

 

"I've invested a lot of my time working for the club over the last nine years, and I am satisfied with what I have achieved off the pitch. If nothing else I have helped create one of the finest stadiums in Europe and a top-class training ground. That is my legacy."

 

And on the pitch, Shepherd claims he retains all faith in Roeder to steer Newcastle out of relegation trouble - and will prove it by financing a January swoop for a top new striker and defender.

 

"We have got to give Glenn time to turn it around, of course we have, and I think he can," he said.

 

"I am not giving him a timeframe to do so, because I see the quality in Glenn to turn the situation around.

 

"The players admit that they didn't play well against Sheffield United last week, but generally the performances haven't been bad.

 

"We have good players here. Look at our team sheet. Christ, these are good players, and they have to sort it out.

 

"But I would rather the fans have a go at me rather than the team or the manager." Shepherd added: "Stock Exchange rules mean we cannot say exactly what we are going to do in the January transfer window - but look at our past record.

 

"And I know a forward and a defender are a priority."

 

Meanwhile, while Shepherd admits that he and United's Plc board have a duty to all shareholders to listen to any reasonable offer that is made for the club, he is not holding his breath.

 

"Anyone can make an offer for the company," he said. "As chairman I then have to do what is best for the Plc and for the shareholders.

 

"But while there are lots of good talkers and people saying they are going to do this, that and the other, I don't see anyone coming here and saying: `Right, we'll buy the club and do this and that'.

 

"So I am going to see this job through, and I believe I will turn this situation around.

 

"My bags aren't packed."

 

 

 

So this is why we're not winning any trophies! FS doesnt want to leave.. So he deliberatly pick managers who are tactically lost and in some cases just plain stupid (Souness.) ?

[NE5]

 

 

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

 

This isn't the old ... Shepherd is better than what came before him so he's a genius... load of tired old nonsense is it ?

 

Charles Manson wasn't quite as nasty as Adolf Hitler, but I wouldn't want him as my next door neighbour, my bank manager or my football club chairman !!!

 

 

the fact is, like it or not, they took a club ailing on the brink of oblivion and totally transformed it. Whether they have gone as far as they have is possible, but they are leaving a far better one than the one they found, and finding better is far from automatic.

 

You can carry on with your blind hatred though.

 

 

[WhatTheFunk]

 

 

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

 

This isn't the old ... Shepherd is better than what came before him so he's a genius... load of tired old nonsense is it ?

 

Charles Manson wasn't quite as nasty as Adolf Hitler, but I wouldn't want him as my next door neighbour, my bank manager or my football club chairman !!!

 

 

It is.

 

Good to have you back soldier

[Guest Cyberbats]

 

 

the fact is, like it or not, they took a club ailing on the brink of oblivion and totally transformed it. Whether they have gone as far as they have is possible, but they are leaving a far better one than the one they found, and finding better is far from automatic.

 

You can carry on with your blind hatred though.

 

 

 

 

I think you have to credit John Hall with ... took a club ailing on the brink of oblivion and totally transformed it. .....

 

Compare Sir John Halls time as Chairman with that of Freddie Shepherd.

 

I don't hate Freddie Shepherd, and I don't view his tenure as Newcastle Chairman blindly. I don't believe he his trying to do a bad job, but I do believe his ego, his courting of celebrity for himself, his financial arrangements with regard NUFC plc, and his poor record of decision making, mean he is not the man to bring success to Newcastle United.

[Dokko]

:obi: :obi: :obi: :obi: :obi:

 

What a suprise your at it again, rolling in delight in the Toon's misery.

 

Fuking WUM, glad am not the only one who sees you for what you truly are.

 

Wolf in sheeps clothing, your making more enemies than friends now so i guess you can drop the act, and i for one cant wait to see you fuk off from these forums and go be a parasite somewhere else.

 

 

 

[thedudeabides]

 

 

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

 

This isn't the old ... Shepherd is better than what came before him so he's a genius... load of tired old nonsense is it ?

 

Charles Manson wasn't quite as nasty as Adolf Hitler, but I wouldn't want him as my next door neighbour, my bank manager or my football club chairman !!!

 

 

the fact is, like it or not, they took a club ailing on the brink of oblivion and totally transformed it. Whether they have gone as far as they have is possible, but they are leaving a far better one than the one they found, and finding better is far from automatic.

 

You can carry on with your blind hatred though.

 

 

 

Sir John Hall was the best chairman this club as ever had, bar none, I don't think anyone would deny that..........but what the club achieved between 1992 and 1996 has next to fuck all to do with Shepherd's input.

 

However, since Shepherd took over in December 96, the club has continually gone backwards (give or take the odd blip). Would you agree or disagree?

[NE5]

 

 

 

I'm sure you would consider the people who left the club staring at relegation to the 3rd division and sold our best players for over 30 years to be geniuses though.

 

 

 

This isn't the old ... Shepherd is better than what came before him so he's a genius... load of tired old nonsense is it ?

 

Charles Manson wasn't quite as nasty as Adolf Hitler, but I wouldn't want him as my next door neighbour, my bank manager or my football club chairman !!!

 

 

the fact is, like it or not, they took a club ailing on the brink of oblivion and totally transformed it. Whether they have gone as far as they have is possible, but they are leaving a far better one than the one they found, and finding better is far from automatic.

 

You can carry on with your blind hatred though.

 

 

 

Sir John Hall was the best chairman this club as ever had, bar none, I don't think anyone would deny that..........but what the club achieved between 1992 and 1996 has next to fuck all to do with Shepherd's input.

 

However, since Shepherd took over in December 96, the club has continually gone backwards (give or take the odd blip). Would you agree or disagree?

 

my point mate is that the board since 1992 has been the same board with the same major shareholders. SJH was a charismatic chairman, and the team did better on the field during his time as chairman due to having the best manager, and that is the only reason they did better, but it wasn't him who chose the manager, therefore he got a bit lucky. Its a fact that if the team does well, you either aren't aware of board shortcomings, and/or simply you don't care about them.

 

I am aware the club have not performed as well on the field as they did under Keegan - see above - but I don't think Shepherd has chosen the managers single handedly or ran the club single handedly either. He is not the major shareholder now, and he wasn't then. Hall Jnr said after sacking Bobby Robson that the club had had to do it, that should tell you who is making the major decisions, the answer being the board as a whole and like any company nobody does anything without the major shareholders being heavily involved, at least.

 

In fact if you look at the makeup of the board, the one significant person missing is in fact Freddie Fletcher. And as he is the one who, with Hall Jnr and Shepherd, chose and persuaded keegan to become manager of the club, maybe he is the real person that had the biggest influence in the backround, more than anyone ?

 

 

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

[Guest Knightrider]

While I appreciate the work Sir John Hall has done for the club as Chairman and will always be grateful for his decision to get involved because had he not we would have went bust and with it possible extinction.

 

However I think most of the praise for that era needs to go to Kevin keegan and it is no coincidence that the club started to go backwards the moment his influence ended. He was the driving force behind Hall, not the other way round.

 

Of course Hall played a key part as Chairman, especially in selling the whole "Geordie nation" line to the City (and just as importantly to business people) but it was KK who first sold him on the idea and he fell for it hook line and sinker like we all did at the time.

 

KK's departure had a bigger effect on the club than any subsequent decision made after, that and becoming a PLC which I put KK's departure down to anyway.

 

We've never really recovered from that save a few years under Sir Bobby Robson. All that remains of KK's legacy is St. James' Park and our reputation in the transfer market as big and ambitious spenders. Unlike then however, all signings under KK were brought to win the club trophies, not placate fans or cover one's own arse (Owen).

 

One other legacy that remains of KK's is the live for today attitude but again under KK there was an actual plan at the end of everything the club did where as today there doesn't seem to be one.

[NE5]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.  And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

[NE5]

While I appreciate the work Sir John Hall has done for the club as Chairman and will always be grateful for his decision to get involved because had he not we would have went bust and with it possible extinction.

 

However I think most of the praise for that era needs to go to Kevin keegan and it is no coincidence that the club started to go backwards the moment his influence ended. He was the driving force behind Hall, not the other way round.

 

absolutely.

 

Of course Hall played a key part as Chairman, especially in selling the whole "Geordie nation" line to the City (and just as importantly to business people) but it was KK who first sold him on the idea and he fell for it hook line and sinker like we all did at the time.

 

KK's departure had a bigger effect on the club than any subsequent decision made after, that and becoming a PLC which I put KK's departure down to anyway.

 

We've never really recovered from that save a few years under Sir Bobby Robson. All that remains of KK's legacy is St. James' Park and our reputation in the transfer market as big and ambitious spenders. Unlike then however, all signings under KK were brought to win the club trophies, not placate fans or cover one's own arse (Owen).

 

One other legacy that remains of KK's is the live for today attitude but again under KK there was an actual plan at the end of everything the club did where as today there doesn't seem to be one.

 

Good points, apart from the fact that he was the person who didn't believe in the value of the reserve team - plan ? - and there is no way that players such as Owen, Bellamy, Robert etc weren't brought to the club to win trophies, Keegan would have bought all of those players himself too possibly. The reason we haven't won a trophy is because of the amount of shit buys, that weren't "trophy players" who let the better players down.

 

 

[Dragon55544]

Would people be happy if FS bought Newcastle but then stepped down as Chairman and basically stayed in the backround like J.Hall?

 

 

[NE5]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.   And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

 

No you got it wrong, and no we aren't 5th in the league at the moment. However, I am curious to know who you think would guarantee us permanent Champions League and trophies, as you - and others - appear to think we have a divine right to it ?

 

Do you seriously think that Shepherd has chosen ALL the managers, and runs the club on his own, without consultation and group decisions made with the major shareholders ? ... I thought accountants understand business ........ have I got that right ?

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.  And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

 

No you got it wrong, and no we aren't 5th in the league at the moment. However, I am curious to know who you think would guarantee us permanent Champions League and trophies, as you - and others - appear to think we have a divine right to it ?

 

Do you seriously think that Shepherd has chosen ALL the managers, and runs the club on his own, without consultation and group decisions made with the major shareholders ? ... I thought accountants understand business ........ have I got that right ?

 

 

 

Yeah, funny because I don't remember ever mentioning that we should have a divine right to Champions League or trophies.  I understand though that it makes it easier for you to argue with me if you attribute comments like that to me.  Bit silly though isn't it?  Making stuff up and telling me I said it.  Childish, even.

 

As to your second paragraph, Shepherd is the Chairman.  Whether the decision is entirely his or not, it is him that rubber stamps it.  And if he didn't approve of a managerial appointment, it wouldn't be made.  So don't now change tack and try and blame Shepherd's mistakes on others. 

[Guest Knightrider]

Good points, apart from the fact that he was the person who didn't believe in the value of the reserve team - plan ? - and there is no way that players such as Owen, Bellamy, Robert etc weren't brought to the club to win trophies, Keegan would have bought all of those players himself too possibly. The reason we haven't won a trophy is because of the amount of shit buys, that weren't "trophy players" who let the better players down.

 

KK made a big fuck up sacking the reserves but he had his reasons for it, at the time the reserves were playing at SJP and this was having a bad effect on the playing surface. KK did the right thing in putting the first-team first and above everything else but it was a short-term view that wasn't going to be of any benefit long-term. Everything else KK did was done with one eye on the future, most noticably the sale of Cole.

 

You are right the Roberts and Bellamys were bought to win trophies, I agree, or rather they were bought to help build a team to challenge for honours, bought by a man who at the time had complete control of affairs and who knew what he was doing but the likes of Owen, Luque et al weren't and neither were the likes of Sibierski or Duff. Owen's signing came when the Chairman was under fire from fans and was a big massive PR exercise more than anything. Only a misguided person would pay all that money for Owen when there were more pressing issues needing resolved. KK would never have signed Owen if it meant neglecting the squad. KK was a big believer in having a big squad and put the team before individuals.

 

I'm sure Owen was bought in mind to replace Shearer and to score us lots of goals but that wasn't the primary reason.

 

For me we haven't won a trophy because we've only ever appointed one man capable of bringing success to the club (after KK). I won't blame the board for our lack of trophies however because such things hinge on all kind of things, mostly the luck of the draw (cups) or injuries and suspensions (the league) and of course, the money spent has been more than enough to equip the respective manager's with the means to challenge.

[NE5]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.   And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

 

No you got it wrong, and no we aren't 5th in the league at the moment. However, I am curious to know who you think would guarantee us permanent Champions League and trophies, as you - and others - appear to think we have a divine right to it ?

 

Do you seriously think that Shepherd has chosen ALL the managers, and runs the club on his own, without consultation and group decisions made with the major shareholders ? ... I thought accountants understand business ........ have I got that right ?

 

 

 

Yeah, funny because I don't remember ever mentioning that we should have a divine right to Champions League or trophies.  I understand though that it makes it easier for you to argue with me if you attribute comments like that to me.  Bit silly though isn't it?  Making stuff up and telling me I said it.  Childish, even.

 

As to your second paragraph, Shepherd is the Chairman.  Whether the decision is entirely his or not, it is him that rubber stamps it.  And if he didn't approve of a managerial appointment, it wouldn't be made.  So don't now change tack and try and blame Shepherd's mistakes on others. 

 

No it isn't childish. You either think we have a divine right to finish in the top 4 and win trophies or accept clubs have good times and bad times, everybody does. I am aware of our position, but again, I predicted what supporting Souness could bring, so why are you [childishly] making the point you did when entering this thread ?

 

I am not blaming anything on anybody. The board acts as a group, the chairman does not always make the decision, you obviously haven't read the bit where I quoted from Keegans book where he says that Hall Jnr, Fletcher and Shepherd forced SJH to appoint him, because he was against it. Just imagine what would have happened if he [sJH] had not "rubber stamped" that, or if you like respected his colleagues decision and went with the majority against his own judgement .....

 

I completely agree with the comment made by Knightrider in his above post, that everything we did is down to Keegan, which I have also said many times, and he drove SJH and the club, not the other way round. That is why we have not repeated the same success, simply because we have not been able to match Keegan.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Would people be happy if FS bought Newcastle but then stepped down as Chairman and basically stayed in the backround like J.Hall?

 

 

 

I would, but only if a competent board were appointed on his behalf. I say "happy", ideally I'll never be fully happy with the club until it is in the ownership of fans, the only people who will always have the clubs best interests at heart, regardless. But aye I'd be happy enough, I wouldn't complain put it that way. Good question BTW.

[Guest Gemmill]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.  And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

 

No you got it wrong, and no we aren't 5th in the league at the moment. However, I am curious to know who you think would guarantee us permanent Champions League and trophies, as you - and others - appear to think we have a divine right to it ?

 

Do you seriously think that Shepherd has chosen ALL the managers, and runs the club on his own, without consultation and group decisions made with the major shareholders ? ... I thought accountants understand business ........ have I got that right ?

 

 

 

Yeah, funny because I don't remember ever mentioning that we should have a divine right to Champions League or trophies.  I understand though that it makes it easier for you to argue with me if you attribute comments like that to me.  Bit silly though isn't it?  Making stuff up and telling me I said it.  Childish, even.

 

As to your second paragraph, Shepherd is the Chairman.  Whether the decision is entirely his or not, it is him that rubber stamps it.  And if he didn't approve of a managerial appointment, it wouldn't be made.  So don't now change tack and try and blame Shepherd's mistakes on others. 

 

No it isn't childish. You either think we have a divine right to finish in the top 4 and win trophies or accept clubs have good times and bad times, everybody does. I am aware of our position, but again, I predicted what supporting Souness could bring, so why are you [childishly] making the point you did when entering this thread ?

 

I am not blaming anything on anybody. The board acts as a group, the chairman does not always make the decision, you obviously haven't read the bit where I quoted from Keegans book where he says that Hall Jnr, Fletcher and Shepherd forced SJH to appoint him, because he was against it. Just imagine what would have happened if he [sJH] had not "rubber stamped" that, or if you like respected his colleagues decision and went with the majority against his own judgement .....

 

I completely agree with the comment made by Knightrider in his above post, that everything we did is down to Keegan, which I have also said many times, and he drove SJH and the club, not the other way round. That is why we have not repeated the same success, simply because we have not been able to match Keegan.

 

 

 

We're 19th in the league, with a third-rate (at best) manager, and a painfully thin squad because Keegan left a decade ago.  Okayyyyyy.

 

I'm not gonna go on anymore in this thread because it's clear that it's going to take relegation for it to sink in with you that Shepherd is doing an appalling job of running this club.  Let's hope it never gets to the point where it sinks in eh?  I'd rather you lived in ignorance and we stayed in the Premiership.

[NE5]

Good points, apart from the fact that he was the person who didn't believe in the value of the reserve team - plan ? - and there is no way that players such as Owen, Bellamy, Robert etc weren't brought to the club to win trophies, Keegan would have bought all of those players himself too possibly. The reason we haven't won a trophy is because of the amount of shit buys, that weren't "trophy players" who let the better players down.

 

KK made a big fuck up sacking the reserves but he had his reasons for it, at the time the reserves were playing at SJP and this was having a bad effect on the playing surface. KK did the right thing in putting the first-team first and above everything else but it was a short-term view that wasn't going to be of any benefit long-term. Everything else KK did was done with one eye on the future, most noticably the sale of Cole.

 

You are right the Roberts and Bellamys were bought to win trophies, I agree, or rather they were bought to help build a team to challenge for honours, bought by a man who at the time had complete control of affairs and who knew what he was doing but the likes of Owen, Luque et al weren't and neither were the likes of Sibierski or Duff. Owen's signing came when the Chairman was under fire from fans and was a big massive PR exercise more than anything. Only a misguided person would pay all that money for Owen when there were more pressing issues needing resolved. KK would never have signed Owen if it meant neglecting the squad. KK was a big believer in having a big squad and put the team before individuals.

 

I'm sure Owen was bought in mind to replace Shearer and to score us lots of goals but that wasn't the primary reason.

 

For me we haven't won a trophy because we've only ever appointed one man capable of bringing success to the club (after KK). I won't blame the board for our lack of trophies however because such things hinge on all kind of things, mostly the luck of the draw (cups) or injuries and suspensions (the league) and of course, the money spent has been more than enough to equip the respective manager's with the means to challenge.

 

yes I agree about the reasons for stopping the reserve team. I also defended Keegan in the past against people who slag him off for it - mostly people who thought he had "failed" or that we would be better off without him and quoted this as attempting to prove their point , which of course brings in the "be careful what you wish for" phrase.

 

The sale of Cole was inspired, I also trusted him here because I knew he would do what he thought was right and saw what his idea was, Cole may have won medals at manure because he was a very good player and the right one for them at the time, but Les Ferdinand was a better all round player. Again, we didn't win the league because maybe it all came a bit quickly for us and Keegan hadn't finished building his team, and that the only reason why we didn't win it IMO.

 

I'm not so sure about Keegan signing Owen mate. More than anything he believed in quality, he bought Shearer didn't he ? Did we need forwards ? He had just bought Arsprilla [the wrong man anyway, he should have bought Zola who was the perfect replacement for Beardsley], when we needed a captain defender [to replace Venison] and a top class goalkeeper to move forwards, at that time.

And yes, I know that Souness would have been quite happy signing Owen to take the heat off himself, but he was Shearers long term replacement.

 

I agree with the luck of the draw playing its part in not winning cups. A top 5 [or top 3] team is good enough to win a cup, and our 2 FA Cup Finals were a disaster, the only people to blame for not even performing is the players, and to a degree the manager for getting it wrong.

 

 

[NE5]

Hey Leazes matey, how's it going?  You've been keeping a bit of a low profile on Toontastic since we sunk into the relegation zone - can't think why.  I'm wondering though, do you still think we're the 5th best club in the Premiership?  Don't let me mentioning that we're in the relegation zone affect your answer btw.  I'm not trying to sway your opinion. 

 

Well Gemma [who is Leazes ?] as has been said before, people don't like these cut and paste things so I am sure they will have a go at you for asking the same questions - the reason we are where we are is because the club did what you wanted, and backed Souness, remember ? So - you got what you wanted ...... I can categorically say that I was against us being where we are now, financially and on the pitch. In fact I predicted it and you said I was wrong.

 

Not that I'm making owt up like, like some do 

 

 

 

Ah so it's all my fault.   And was it my posts on here that influenced Shepherd to appoint and back Souness?  Or ESP?  Just so I know not to do that sort of thing again.

 

We aren't 5th best anymore though, right?  Have I got that bit right? 

 

No you got it wrong, and no we aren't 5th in the league at the moment. However, I am curious to know who you think would guarantee us permanent Champions League and trophies, as you - and others - appear to think we have a divine right to it ?

 

Do you seriously think that Shepherd has chosen ALL the managers, and runs the club on his own, without consultation and group decisions made with the major shareholders ? ... I thought accountants understand business ........ have I got that right ?

 

 

 

Yeah, funny because I don't remember ever mentioning that we should have a divine right to Champions League or trophies.  I understand though that it makes it easier for you to argue with me if you attribute comments like that to me.  Bit silly though isn't it?  Making stuff up and telling me I said it.  Childish, even.

 

As to your second paragraph, Shepherd is the Chairman.  Whether the decision is entirely his or not, it is him that rubber stamps it.  And if he didn't approve of a managerial appointment, it wouldn't be made.  So don't now change tack and try and blame Shepherd's mistakes on others. 

 

No it isn't childish. You either think we have a divine right to finish in the top 4 and win trophies or accept clubs have good times and bad times, everybody does. I am aware of our position, but again, I predicted what supporting Souness could bring, so why are you [childishly] making the point you did when entering this thread ?

 

I am not blaming anything on anybody. The board acts as a group, the chairman does not always make the decision, you obviously haven't read the bit where I quoted from Keegans book where he says that Hall Jnr, Fletcher and Shepherd forced SJH to appoint him, because he was against it. Just imagine what would have happened if he [sJH] had not "rubber stamped" that, or if you like respected his colleagues decision and went with the majority against his own judgement .....

 

I completely agree with the comment made by Knightrider in his above post, that everything we did is down to Keegan, which I have also said many times, and he drove SJH and the club, not the other way round. That is why we have not repeated the same success, simply because we have not been able to match Keegan.

 

 

 

We're 19th in the league, with a third-rate (at best) manager, and a painfully thin squad because Keegan left a decade ago.  Okayyyyyy.

 

I'm not gonna go on anymore in this thread because it's clear that it's going to take relegation for it to sink in with you that Shepherd is doing an appalling job of running this club.  Let's hope it never gets to the point where it sinks in eh?  I'd rather you lived in ignorance and we stayed in the Premiership.

 

I will be as pissed off as anybody. But I have seen a truly appalling situation, and believe me, it is far worse than where we are now.

Having a board at the club who doesn't back their managers, is something I sincerly hope you remain ignorant of too.

 

YOu also clearly still think the majority shareholders have no say in what happens with their company.