Will Mike spend any of this on NUFC?

[ewerk]

He promised to personally fund the club to £20mil per season originally.

 

To date, he's exceeded that (even if only as a short-term loan).

 

If the club stays on an even keel for a couple of seasons, the £20mil per year may still continue but naturally it would go towards player transfers & signing-on fees (I would imagine wages would be restricted to the club budget)

 

For as much crap as he gets, he's at least kept us afloat.

 

Because letting us go under would be in his best interests?

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

He promised to personally fund the club to £20mil per season originally.

 

To date, he's exceeded that (even if only as a short-term loan).

 

If the club stays on an even keel for a couple of seasons, the £20mil per year may still continue but naturally it would go towards player transfers & signing-on fees (I would imagine wages would be restricted to the club budget)

 

For as much crap as he gets, he's at least kept us afloat.

 

Because letting us go under would be in his best interests?

This has been covered thousands of times. Mike Ashley wouldn't lose his wealth, he'd lose the money invested and St. James' Holdings would go bankrupt, all the rest of his moeny and assests would be fine. Yet, he continues to pay what is needed to balance the books and keep the club running.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility he's doing that so someone buys it at an inflated price, but at anytime he could walk away and the money he'd lose would be the initial purchase price and invested money he's put into the club since taking over - so just a little bit of his wealth.

[ewerk]

He promised to personally fund the club to £20mil per season originally.

 

To date, he's exceeded that (even if only as a short-term loan).

 

If the club stays on an even keel for a couple of seasons, the £20mil per year may still continue but naturally it would go towards player transfers & signing-on fees (I would imagine wages would be restricted to the club budget)

 

For as much crap as he gets, he's at least kept us afloat.

 

Because letting us go under would be in his best interests?

This has been covered thousands of times. Mike Ashley wouldn't lose his wealth, he'd lose the money invested and St. James' Holdings would go bankrupt, all the rest of his moeny and assests would be fine. Yet, he continues to pay what is needed to balance the books and keep the club running.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility he's doing that so someone buys it at an inflated price, but at anytime he could walk away and the money he'd lose would be the initial purchase price and invested money he's put into the club since taking over - so just a little bit of his wealth.

 

A little bit of his wealth? I haven't got time to do the research so correct me if I'm wrong, his wealth is reported at £700m, he paid £134m for the club and has loaned us another £100m (?) since then.

 

I'd say it's more than you a 'little bit of his wealth'. It's in his interests to see us doing well, I just don't think he's done a very good job of that.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

He promised to personally fund the club to £20mil per season originally.

 

To date, he's exceeded that (even if only as a short-term loan).

 

If the club stays on an even keel for a couple of seasons, the £20mil per year may still continue but naturally it would go towards player transfers & signing-on fees (I would imagine wages would be restricted to the club budget)

 

For as much crap as he gets, he's at least kept us afloat.

 

Because letting us go under would be in his best interests?

This has been covered thousands of times. Mike Ashley wouldn't lose his wealth, he'd lose the money invested and St. James' Holdings would go bankrupt, all the rest of his moeny and assests would be fine. Yet, he continues to pay what is needed to balance the books and keep the club running.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility he's doing that so someone buys it at an inflated price, but at anytime he could walk away and the money he'd lose would be the initial purchase price and invested money he's put into the club since taking over - so just a little bit of his wealth.

 

A little bit of his wealth? I haven't got time to do the research so correct me if I'm wrong, his wealth is reported at £700m, he paid £134m for the club and has loaned us another £100m (?) since then.

 

I'd say it's more than you a 'little bit of his wealth'. It's in his interests to see us doing well, I just don't think he's done a very good job of that.

 

2/7 of his wealth, sure £200m+ is a lot, but its not the vast majority of his net worth.

[ewerk]

You don't reckon a man like Mike Ashley would really hate to lose that £200m?

 

To say that he has kept us afloat as an act of generosity is a ridiculous statement.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Aye, its clearly out of spite - I can hear his malice cackles drifting my way now. 

[ewerk]

Where did I say it was out of spite?

 

What I've said is that Ashley will want to see us do well in order to protect his investment, the problem is that his definition of doing well is scraping 17th place, something I'd be happy with this season but not in the long-term. We've already seen him massively misjudge what it takes to stay in the PL before, I'm worried that he'll do it again.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Where did I say it was out of spite?

 

What I've said is that Ashley will want to see us do well in order to protect his investment, the problem is that his definition of doing well is scraping 17th place, something I'd be happy with this season but not in the long-term. We've already seen him massively misjudge what it takes to stay in the PL before, I'm worried that he'll do it again.

 

Where did I say it was out of generosity? Simply said at least he's 'keeping the club afloat', which is more than some Chairmens have managed over recent years

How is that different from any other chairman/businessman? Not defending the lying git, but to ignore whatever small positives he's provided is blind.

[TRon]

Ashley isn't really interested in sinking more money into this club. Partly that is down to him being tight and partly it's down to the anti-Ashley hate mob who have probably made sure he sticks to that policy. It's a shame he isn't going to use promotion as a chance to build us into a decent team but as no one else has taken the chance to buy the club it's pointless complaining about it. If you don't like the way the club is being run just don't go to the games.

[ewerk]

Not defending the lying git, but to ignore whatever small positives he's provided is blind.

 

Yes, him keeping the club afloat is a positive, no one would deny that. But you make it sound like he had a choice, he wouldn't have simply walked away due to the money he would've lost, it's not something to praise him on.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

[Guest malandro]

He’ll have trouble selling at a breakeven price as he bought when the price for football clubs was at its peak and paid way over the odds. Repaying all his loans and selling a debt free PL club operating at a small profit for about £100m is the only way he can break even?

 

I don’t think supporters who boycott the club shop and sports direct see it as a way of getting him out, more a case of not giving their money to a man neither trust or respect.

 

[OzzieMandias]

He’ll have trouble selling at a breakeven price as he bought when the price for football clubs was at its peak and paid way over the odds. Repaying all his loans and selling a debt free PL club operating at a small profit for about £100m is the only way he can break even?

 

I don’t think supporters who boycott the club shop and sports direct see it as a way of getting him out, more a case of not giving their money to a man neither trust or respect.

 

 

It won't help get him out. It'll just mean we have even less money to spend on players.

[Guest malandro]

He’ll have trouble selling at a breakeven price as he bought when the price for football clubs was at its peak and paid way over the odds. Repaying all his loans and selling a debt free PL club operating at a small profit for about £100m is the only way he can break even?

 

I don’t think supporters who boycott the club shop and sports direct see it as a way of getting him out, more a case of not giving their money to a man neither trust or respect.

 

 

It won't help get him out. It'll just mean we have even less money to spend on players.

Not if the transfer budget is fixed. Implement a sell to buy policy and any extra money coming in won’t be spent on players.

 

The amounts of money involved in this boycott aren’t relevant to the big picture, it’s purely symbolic. Trying to make out it’s detrimental to the clubs transfer strategy is bollocks.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes, Liverpool will strengthen for sure just maybe not to the extent their supporters would like

 

only mike fucking ashley appears not to grasp this simple premise

[Stu]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

[mrmojorisin75]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

[madras]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

[mrmojorisin75]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

a lot obviously

 

but how many seasons without CL football can they suffer before the wheels really come off?

 

let's put it this way as Stu brought us into it - i don't see Liverpool ending the summer balanced on transfers or in a profit and i can not say that with the same level of confidence for us

[madras]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

a lot obviously

 

but how many seasons without CL football can they suffer before the wheels really come off?

 

let's put it this way as Stu brought us into it - i don't see Liverpool ending the summer balanced on transfers or in a profit and i can not say that with the same level of confidence for us

isn't that stus point  though, when the wheels come off at liverpool they will have to behave as we are or face going under. we have been to a certain extent in the position liverpool are in. we spent to try and recapture the champs lge place and if it doesn't work your left with a load of debt that cant be built on forever.

[mrmojorisin75]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

a lot obviously

 

but how many seasons without CL football can they suffer before the wheels really come off?

 

let's put it this way as Stu brought us into it - i don't see Liverpool ending the summer balanced on transfers or in a profit and i can not say that with the same level of confidence for us

isn't that stus point  though, when the wheels come off at liverpool they will have to behave as we are or face going under. we have been to a certain extent in the position liverpool are in. we spent to try and recapture the champs lge place and if it doesn't work your left with a load of debt that cant be built on forever.

i'm not trying to be offensive to Stu but from his post if you gleaned that that was his point i just don't know how

 

and i don't see how any of that negates what i said about improving on the pitch - fat fred kept gambling 'cause he knew being up there and having good players is the ONLY way to succeed financially...he took it too far and couldn't see that the game had changed around him with Abramovich etc. but the fundamental principle is sound

 

it's only when you lose sight of when to reign it in things go to shit...i can't say how anyone can say Liverpool are at that point yet

[Exiled in Texas]

Surely if Liverpool have to strengthen to be worth 800M, then you have to factor in the additional costs required to get there.  No point spending an additional 200M to be worth 800M if your debt levels etc are now up to 900M.

 

Hind sight and all that......but we may well be better off than many clubs due to Ashleys earlier forray into fiscal responsibility rather than continuing to play FM with a real club.

[mrmojorisin75]

Surely if Liverpool have to strengthen to be worth 800M, then you have to factor in the additional costs required to get there.  No point spending an additional 200M to be worth 800M if your debt levels etc are now up to 900M.

 

Hind sight and all that......but we may well be better off than many clubs due to Ashleys earlier forray into fiscal responsibility rather than continuing to play FM with a real club.

 

this is spectacularly missing the point i was making, if that's what you're addressing - i wasn't saying they should strengthen to reach that stupid valuation but they will know they need to strengthen (the owners i mean) to stop themselves going backwards as we did when smart arse mike gambled on transfers and took the club backwards by XX amount of years

 

as i said liverpool might not spend 50m net but they'll do something to ensure they're stronger on the pitch this coming season

 

so far i don't see mike ashley being that astute - we might get more bodies but that does not equate to strengthening in any real sense

[Exiled in Texas]

Gotcha - read it the wrong way to what you intended.

 

Agree that Liverpool will spend and put out a stronger team. just not sure which way that will be taking their balance sheet.  At some point you have to live within your means. We are a good example of realising that a little too late.

 

The question is.....are we ahead of the move to fiscal responsibility and can we turn that to our advantage

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Gotcha - read it the wrong way to what you intended.

 

Agree that Liverpool will spend and put out a stronger team. just not sure which way that will be taking their balance sheet.  At some point you have to live within your means. We are a good example of realising that a little too late.

 

The question is.....are we ahead of the move to fiscal responsibility and can we turn that to our advantage

 

 

I think I said that earlier: someone in charge has to realise the tipping point, fat fred didn't do that with us.  Mike Ashley has gone past the tipping point in the other direction and to answer your question I don't think he's smart enough to make prudence work in our favour, ever.

 

As for Liverpool, again as I said, I don't think they're anywhere near the point where they should stop spending reasonable amounts to keep in the CL.  Fair enough if they piss 100m away this summer and fail they'd better rethink but they have a good squad and now a good manager.  Reasonable investment will see them through imo.