West Ham to get Olympic Stadium

[Stifler]

People need to get rid of the chips on their shoulders about London, it's 3 hours on the f***ing train man - you could have came along if you wanted to.

 

How much would you estimate it would have cost for a family of 4 from Newcastle (or similar) to come down to see 3 or 4 events with trains (inc tube tickets), event tickets, accommodation, food etc? That's on top of probably needing at least a few days off work/school.

 

Same goes for England playing their home games on a Friday night but that's by the by.

 

Trains would have been cheap as chips if they'd got in early, ticket prices were reasonable (particularly for the Paralympics, which is what I went to).  Not sure why you're going on about accommodation and taking lots of time off work, my brother's a teacher and he brought about 10 kids down to see some Paralympics events and they just did it like a day trip.  What did you want them to do, host it all over the country?*  People are just having a go for the sake of it.

 

* Oh hang on, they did that.

Fucking bollocks, you can only pre-book for so long before the event, the whole period of the Olympics and Paralympics was over inflated right from the start as every hotel operator, B&B owner, coach and train providers cashed in on the event.

 

A few low key football games, aye thats fair.

 

You book trains between Newcastle and London for relative pennies 3 months before the event, I know because I've done it for 5 years.  The train companies didn't change that system for the Olympics.

The prices for tickets during the Olympics was always high, as soon as they came out, what don't you get about that?

 

I went to watch the Paralympics via my company, a very big national company. They only managed to get tickets because they were one of the official sponsors (something which they paid a hell of a lot for). The prices for hotel or even hostel rooms were so expensive that they had to hire the whole allocation of a Universities student accommodation complexes whilst the summer break was still happening. Even then plenty of people had to leave early in the morning and return late at night instead of travelling the day before. A lot of the travel was via chartered planes and trains because it was cheaper than buying regular tickets.

 

I don't even know why I'm trying to discuss this point because my initial point was that £11bn for the Olympics was far too much and a complete waste of funds which could have and should have been better spent elsewhere.

 

You just have to take everyone else word and the press coverage it received even before the Olympics started to realise that for the majority of us outside of London it was unaffordable for us to spectate in. 

[Interpolic]

Howay then, where are your calculations coming from, i.e. link me to some nutjob on Skyscraper City or whatever it's called.

 

Calculations-aside, many of the benefits of the Olympics are intangible in the short term.  I also completely disagree with you that it's a short term effect.  If the Olympics are what helped get a kid into sport, or an adult back into keeping fit then that's not short term, it's the spark that causes a long term positive effect.  Euro 96 will have multiplied the amount of kids that were football daft by a long shot, and it's a similar idea.

 

You've also neglected to mention that it was a fucking good show that gave people a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see top class sport in their own back yard.

[Stifler]

3. Go away and type "olympics london council tax" into Google News.  I've been reading the Standard for a few years and it's consistently referred to as a matter of fact that a chunk of people's council tax has been going towards the Olympics.  Your thing about Council Tax going up simply because house prices were going up is utter, utter bilge.

You mean the perceived contribution of about £200m to £1bn at the higher end of the projection scale. Even the those figure are not for the Olympics but are to cover the cost of 40,000 new homes and improved public transport, oh and also it is accepted that London councillors are beginning to and will continue to profit from the sale of Olympic land.

 

Londoners contribute my fucking ass.

[Interpolic]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

[Interpolic]

You're not quoting sources mate, you're just barking figures at me.  Feel 100% like I'm having a conversation with Rain Man.

[Dave]

Can't believe anyone would debate money with Stifler after billiongate.

[Stifler]

Howay then, where are your calculations coming from, i.e. link me to some nutjob on Skyscraper City or whatever it's called.

 

Calculations-aside, many of the benefits of the Olympics are intangible in the short term.  I also completely disagree with you that it's a short term effect.  If the Olympics are what helped get a kid into sport, or an adult back into keeping fit then that's not short term, it's the spark that causes a long term positive effect.  Euro 96 will have multiplied the amount of kids that were football daft by a long shot, and it's a similar idea.

 

You've also neglected to mention that it was a fucking good show that gave people a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see top class sport in their own back yard.

Take up and continued participation in sports are down since before the Olympics, meaning less people are taking part in sports then they were before the Olympics, despite at the time of the Olympics participation showing a significant increase. That means the positive effects of the Olympic legacy have already ended and now less people are leading active lives then they were before the Olympics.

 

Slate Skyscrapercity all you like, the fact is it's the worlds leading contraction and infrastructure forum with some of the worlds leading people in the industry taking part on there. It isn't a football forum.

[Stifler]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

[Interpolic]

Howay then, where are your calculations coming from, i.e. link me to some nutjob on Skyscraper City or whatever it's called.

 

Calculations-aside, many of the benefits of the Olympics are intangible in the short term.  I also completely disagree with you that it's a short term effect.  If the Olympics are what helped get a kid into sport, or an adult back into keeping fit then that's not short term, it's the spark that causes a long term positive effect.  Euro 96 will have multiplied the amount of kids that were football daft by a long shot, and it's a similar idea.

 

You've also neglected to mention that it was a fucking good show that gave people a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see top class sport in their own back yard.

Take up and continued participation in sports are down since before the Olympics, meaning less people are taking part in sports then they were before the Olympics, despite at the time of the Olympics participation showing a significant increase. That means the positive effects of the Olympic legacy have already ended and now less people are leading active lives then they were before the Olympics.

 

Slate Skyscrapercity all you like, the fact is it's the worlds leading contraction and infrastructure forum with some of the worlds leading people in the industry taking part on there. It isn't a football forum.

 

Source? Fuck me.  I could quite easily say that grass is purple and they're the facts.  It means nowt man, you mentalist.

 

I haven't got a clue what Skyscraper City is, and I don't care.  I post on a football forum because I like football, what the fuck you're on there for I don't have a clue.

[Stifler]

You're not quoting sources mate, you're just barking figures at me.  Feel 100% like I'm having a conversation with Rain Man.

I've yet to see you quote one source, you haven't even said any figures at all, all you have done is "I don't agree" and then "Look it up yourself", oh and "It's a shithole because my mum says it is".

[Interpolic]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

[Interpolic]

You're not quoting sources mate, you're just barking figures at me.  Feel 100% like I'm having a conversation with Rain Man.

I've yet to see you quote one source, you haven't even said any figures at all, all you have done is "I don't agree" and then "Look it up yourself", oh and "It's a shithole because my mum says it is".

 

You're the one barking out figures!  I'm referring mainly to the social impact of the games, there are a million and one sources for that.

[Stifler]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

[Interpolic]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

 

It was affordable, it's got nothing to do with where I live.

[Stifler]

You're not quoting sources mate, you're just barking figures at me.  Feel 100% like I'm having a conversation with Rain Man.

I've yet to see you quote one source, you haven't even said any figures at all, all you have done is "I don't agree" and then "Look it up yourself", oh and "It's a shithole because my mum says it is".

 

You're the one barking out figures!  I'm referring mainly to the social impact of the games, there are a million and one sources for that.

And the benefits do not weigh the cost of the Olympics, the money could have and should have easily have been used for many other projects, revitalising not just one small patch of London but many areas of the UK which would have brought in bigger and longer lasting revenue.

 

Did people take pride in London hosting the Olympics, yes, does it justify the £11bn and rising cost? no.

[Stifler]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

 

It was affordable, it's got nothing to do with where I live.

It wasn't affordable, and yes it does when you claim it is affordable for other people to travel down and attend the games when you yourself literally just have to walk out of your front door to get to the games.

[Interpolic]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

 

It was affordable, it's got nothing to do with where I live.

It wasn't affordable, and yes it does when you claim it is affordable for other people to travel down and attend the games when you yourself literally just have to walk out of your front door to get to the games.

 

That's irrelevant because I can see past the end of my own nose.

 

Tickets were affordable and train travel is affordable if you book in plenty advance, otherwise I had mates who booked event tickets short notice and jumped on the Megabus because they were desperate to get down and see some sport.  Plus there's that example of my brother bringing a load of kids from his class, an example that will have been replicated up and down the country.

[Stifler]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

 

It was affordable, it's got nothing to do with where I live.

It wasn't affordable, and yes it does when you claim it is affordable for other people to travel down and attend the games when you yourself literally just have to walk out of your front door to get to the games.

 

That's irrelevant because I can see past the end of my own nose.

 

Tickets were affordable and train travel is affordable if you book in plenty advance, otherwise I had mates who booked event tickets short notice and jumped on the Megabus because they were desperate to get down and see some sport.  Plus there's that example of my brother bringing a load of kids from his class, an example that will have been replicated up and down the country.

Tickets were highly priced during the time for the Olympics when they were initially released, it was well documented especially on SSN.

Your brother would have been given funds to have done that and you have already admitted he had to make it a day trip because he could not get accommodation, something which isn't exactly ideal or viable in most cases.

 

The price of attending the games was high, not just from my experience but the experience of other people I met there and people who I have spoken too since.

 

I've already said though that this isn't the point I'm making, it's a separate subject. The point I'm making was that the Olympics cost far too much to host and the money would have been better served elsewhere. Nor am I going to argue that didn't bring pride and enjoyment to the UK because it did, I even enjoyed myself whistle I was there (despite the cost whilst I was there), however the cost to host the games was not worth and it did not outweigh the benefits.

 

As a result we have stadia left unused and ready to go back into it's box waiting to be sold and other stadia without a purpose.

 

The Olympic site and other sites around the UK could have been redeveloped and done so in better ways for the £11bn. 

[Interpolic]

You're trying to argue that the price of tickets was high now?  Even for the Paralympics?

 

I paid a tenner for wheelchair basketball at the O2, 15 quid to watch the 3rd place play-off and final of wheelchair basketball and 20 quid for the Paralympics closing ceremony.  If you think that's dear you're off your tits.  I also got the tickets really easily, I could have went to loads of other stuff if I had a bit more spare cash.

No, some tickets were reasonably priced, others weren't. What I did say though that over all including transport the cost of going to the Olympics and Paralympics was unaffordable for most people outside of London.

 

Well it wasn't.  Next.

Yeah nice that isn't it?, someone who lives right next door to the Olympic park says "Coming to London to see the Olympics is affordable for those who live outside of the London area".

 

It was affordable, it's got nothing to do with where I live.

It wasn't affordable, and yes it does when you claim it is affordable for other people to travel down and attend the games when you yourself literally just have to walk out of your front door to get to the games.

 

That's irrelevant because I can see past the end of my own nose.

 

Tickets were affordable and train travel is affordable if you book in plenty advance, otherwise I had mates who booked event tickets short notice and jumped on the Megabus because they were desperate to get down and see some sport.  Plus there's that example of my brother bringing a load of kids from his class, an example that will have been replicated up and down the country.

Your brother would have been given funds to have done that and you have already admitted he had to make it a day trip because he could not get accommodation, something which isn't exactly ideal or viable in most cases.

 

:lol: That's my cue to leave, you've just made that up.  They didn't need accomodation, it was a day trip.  What's the matter with that?

 

It wasn't expensive.  There was a sliding scale of ticket prices but for the Paralympics at least you never had to pay more than 20 quid a ticket.  Tell me about people you've spoken to about it being expensive all you like, I'll trust my own experience and the experience of my mates (who aren't mental) who went.

 

Basically your point is that the £11bn could have been better spent, I'm saying that it was a fantastic experience for a lot of people which will leave a good legacy in years to come.  It wasn't "just so London could show off again" and I think your weird bitterness towards London shines through with everything you say.

 

We'll never agree - you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  And on that note I'm off.  It has not been fun.

[Stifler]

lol: :lol: That's my cue to leave, you've just made that up.  They didn't need accomodation, it was a day trip.  What's the matter with that?

 

It wasn't expensive.  There was a sliding scale of ticket prices but for the Paralympics at least you never had to pay more than 20 quid a ticket.  Tell me about people you've spoken to about it being expensive all you like, I'll trust my own experience and the experience of my mates (who aren't mental) who went.

 

Basically your point is that the £11bn could have been better spent, I'm saying that it was a fantastic experience for a lot of people which will leave a good legacy in years to come.  It wasn't "just so London could show off again" and I think your weird bitterness towards London shines through with everything you say.

 

We'll never agree - you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  And on that note I'm off.  It has not been fun.

I have to say I'm disappointed by the fact that you have had to insinuate some sort of mental defect just because you don't agree with me. I thought you were a better person than that. In all honesty to me thats slander and I would quite rightly have grounds to take legal action against you.

 

Anyway all the way through this you have failed to provide one piece of evidence against my evidence yet request that I do the same and when I point out resources to you that you could look at you question the mental health of members of another forum that you have never visited.

You then go on about your personal experiences of the Olympics and those of people you know then when I do the same you dismiss it. At least one other member on here has echoed the sense of it total being unaffordable which you promptly dismissed.

Other people on here have already agreed that even though a good sense of pride was around during the Olympics the cost and final legacy of the Olympics was not worth it and they have sat back and let you just get on with it, I'm afraid I will not give you that option and it is irresponsible of you to ignore their views as well.

 

Do I have a bitterness towards London? yes but so do many people outside of London because they can see the unfair advantages it gets compared to the rest of the UK. The Olympics is just another example of this and it should quite rightly be subject to being questioned.

[Interpolic]

I have to say I'm disappointed by the fact that you have had to insinuate some sort of mental defect just because you don't agree with me. I thought you were a better person than that. In all honesty to me thats slander and I would quite rightly have grounds to take legal action against you.

 

Well fucking hell, I'll watch my fucking letterbox.

 

I'm not sure you can say calling someone mental is akin to saying they have a mental defect either, it's become a bit of a colloquialism.  I'd imagine that you know that, so all of this outrage at the end of the conversation's just an attempt to make me look bad.  Whatever, I'm not really bothered but you're well aware that I've never been on your case on here in the way a lot of others have been.  Considering how mental you are, anyway.

 

The reason I was asking you for sources is that you were barking figures and facts at me as if they were the Gospel.  The reason I wasn't providing sources is that my points were unfortunately a bit airy-fairy and not really based on economics, e.g. it was a fantastic spectacle (my opinion, one which is widely held), it will leave a great legacy in terms of sparking peoples' interest for sport (not that easily measurable, and certainly not at this point in time) and that it gave people a great chance to see top class sport basically on their doorstep at an affordable price, which I've been through with you and won't budge on.

[mrmojorisin75]

can stifler answer the question about the revenue, projected or actual, that hosting the games brought in?  otherwise i don't see the point in barking 11bn all the time if it made 5bn profit or whatever...

[mrmojorisin75]

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/how-much-money-does-the-olympics-make.html

 

example, no idea if the figures here quoted are accurate

 

what seems to not make sense from stifler is that he's almost certainly correct that 11bn could have been spent better, however the spending on olympics is done with a specific purpose in mind and the consequent economic benefits associated with that...how likely in the economic climate of 2012 is it that the government could get away with saying "righto, we're spending 11nb on shit"

 

the olympics is the reason it gets spent and potentially overall it'll end up with a positive economic impact from various sources, no olympics no spend, simples right?

[Stifler]

can stifler answer the question about the revenue, projected or actual, that hosting the games brought in?  otherwise i don't see the point in barking 11bn all the time if it made 5bn profit or whatever...

£2.4bn

£746m was from domestic Sponsorship.

 

£659m was from ticket sales.

 

£85m was from merchandise sales.

 

The rest was made up of other sponsorships, sales of assets, and grants (some of which came from the UK government).

 

That is direct revenue.

 

Give me some time (it's early in the morning) and I shall dig out some more information if you wish.

[mrmojorisin75]

fuck that, don't bother on my account just assumed you'd know

 

if what you've just quoted there is correct it's fuckin mental, why would anyone agree to something that would guarantee an 8-9bn loss?   in fact not just agree to it, bid for it?