The Refereeing & Officiating Thread

[TheGuv]

I was talking to a lad who works next to the dugout every match day and says that the 4th official scenario was a big problem under CH.

 

All the other team's pester the 4th official after every decision, and eventually the decision's will go there way.

 

For example:

 

Tiote makes anohter foul.

Ian Holloway: 'Look, that's the 4th one in a row.'

4th Official: 'Ok'.

 

Tiote fouls again.

Ian Holloway: 'There he goes again'

4th Official: 'Ref, that's his 5th foul, should probably book him now'

 

We never did that under CH apart from Paul Barron everynow and then. Since Pardew has came in we've been doing it more. I don't think it's on mind that the management team should get away with that, but unfortunately they do.

[Magpie]

Just watching the Wolves Spuds highlights and how that 'goal' by Spearman was disallowed l'll never know!! Yet more 'you're not fit to regetee' chants, becoming more and more common.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I said it on page 1 but it was dismissed with a neasypost, so here we go again. As many people have realised, refereeing isn't getting worse... if there's any evidence to suggest that I would love to see it.

 

Referees perform their job to the best of their ability. Of course they are human and aren't immune to psychological factors like players confronting them, the reactions of fans and the pressure from managers.

 

But we should be trying to find ways to protect referees from all these things, not criticising them for it.

[Skirge]

Its a thankless task BUT its what these fuckwitts choose to do for a living, so many shocking decisions are made in most games now.

The camera/video evidence debate will rage on and on but they need the help to get things right. I do not care if it slows the game down or makes it stop start I want to see correct decisions made.

[Exiled in Texas]

Clattenburg may quit as Premier League Referee.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1363613/Referee-Clattenburg-giving-thought-quitting-week-controversy.html

 

Interesting item in the article though...

 

There is unhappiness among referees about the disciplinary procedures that prevent them correcting a mistake through the FA when a decision is proved to be wrong

 

I think that referees would like to be able to retroactivley award/change misconducts based on the additional viewpoints available from replays.

[ShearMagic]

I didn't think Webb was too bad tbh.

 

As for the vendetta, people forget quickly don't they?

 

I remember the penalty he gave us against the Mackems after Steven Taylor took a dive.

 

So because of one penalty, he's entitled to have a stinker when he referees us?

 

I'm sorry like but I know what I saw with my own eyes, his performance wasn't "alright", it was dire.

 

He wouldn't let the game flow at all, he played right into the hands of Everton players with their persistent time wasting and dropping like flies, and he missed blatant fouls throughout as well (Jonas on the edge of the area comes to mind)

 

1) He didn't have a stinker

 

2) I never said that because of one penalty he's entitled to make wrong decisions - was simply stating that the wrong decisions work both ways.

 

3) Jonas wasn't fouled - and if he stopped diving theatrically everytime somebody got within a metre of him he'd get a lot more decisions his way.

[JH]

I said it on page 1 but it was dismissed with a neasypost, so here we go again. As many people have realised, refereeing isn't getting worse... if there's any evidence to suggest that I would love to see it.

 

Referees perform their job to the best of their ability. Of course they are human and aren't immune to psychological factors like players confronting them, the reactions of fans and the pressure from managers.

 

But we should be trying to find ways to protect referees from all these things, not criticising them for it.

 

The amount of poor decisions made this season is worse than in any year I can remember.

 

Regardless of the rules of post-games and so on, the amount of blatant penalties, 'offsides' that aren't even borderline and dodgy tackles that have resulted in bookings (sometimes not even free kicks!) is ridiculous.

 

As far as I can remember, they had exactly the same pressures five years ago and were making far fewer mistakes. They need technological support.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The amount of mistakes is massively overstated IMO, it's just a non-issue for me.

 

The main problem is why managers, players and fans are constantly blaming and disrespecting officials. That's what needs to be addressed.

[JH]

The amount of mistakes is massively overstated IMO, it's just a non-issue for me.

 

The main problem is why managers, players and fans are constantly blaming and disrespecting officials. That's what needs to be addressed.

 

Because officials continue to make mistakes which can have massive effects on players' and teams' seasons.

 

If I make a mistake at work or produce a poor performance, I get the blame. It's how life works, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.

 

I don't think it should happen in public, via the press or twitter or whatever, like. But it should happen.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The amount of mistakes is massively overstated IMO, it's just a non-issue for me.

 

The main problem is why managers, players and fans are constantly blaming and disrespecting officials. That's what needs to be addressed.

 

Because officials continue to make mistakes which can have massive effects on players' and teams' seasons.

 

If I make a mistake at work or produce a poor performance, I get the blame. It's how life works, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.

 

I don't think it should happen in public, via the press or twitter or whatever, like. But it should happen.

 

They will always make mistakes, they are human beings.

 

Criticism already happens in private, referees are assessed and demoted/promoted. It just shouldn't be instant and at the behest of a baying mob of incredibly biased managers.

[Guest neesy111]

The amount of mistakes is massively overstated IMO, it's just a non-issue for me.

 

The main problem is why managers, players and fans are constantly blaming and disrespecting officials. That's what needs to be addressed.

 

Because officials continue to make mistakes which can have massive effects on players' and teams' seasons.

 

If I make a mistake at work or produce a poor performance, I get the blame. It's how life works, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.

 

I don't think it should happen in public, via the press or twitter or whatever, like. But it should happen.

 

They will always make mistakes, they are human beings.

 

Criticism already happens in private, referees are assessed and demoted/promoted. It just shouldn't be instant and at the behest of a baying mob of incredibly biased managers.

 

And who rates the referee's, their ex-work collegues / mates.  No wonder why none of them hardly get demoted.  Also when was the last time you even heard of a referee being sacked ?!?

[JH]

The amount of mistakes is massively overstated IMO, it's just a non-issue for me.

 

The main problem is why managers, players and fans are constantly blaming and disrespecting officials. That's what needs to be addressed.

 

Because officials continue to make mistakes which can have massive effects on players' and teams' seasons.

 

If I make a mistake at work or produce a poor performance, I get the blame. It's how life works, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.

 

I don't think it should happen in public, via the press or twitter or whatever, like. But it should happen.

 

They will always make mistakes, they are human beings.

 

Criticism already happens in private, referees are assessed and demoted/promoted. It just shouldn't be instant and at the behest of a baying mob of incredibly biased managers.

 

Of course they will but like I've already said the rate of mistakes is much greater than in recent years. They're making a handful each game. It's madness.

 

If I made that many mistakes at work and a client (the football manager) complained, I'd be reprimanded for it. Just because they have a high profile job and it's a tough job, doesn't mean that their mistakes should just be laughed off.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Unless anyone has any data about whether the amount of mistakes really is higher (which I guess it's impossible to obtain) then we need to stop arguing about that issue. IMO it's no worse, some people think it is. There's no way to tell either way.

 

And the referee isn't working for the managers, so to compare them to his client is insane. He works for the game in general, embodied by the Football Association. If anything he is higher up the hierarchy than managers.

 

 

[Guest Geordiesned]

Sorry if already mentioned but I have to say I was astounded to see that Mark Clattenburg got a Premier League this weekend. The FA basically then agreeing he was right not to send off Rooney last weekend.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Sorry if already mentioned but I have to say I was astounded to see that Mark Clattenburg got a Premier League this weekend. The FA basically then agreeing he was right not to send off Rooney last weekend.

 

Not really, a referee isn't demoted after every incident he misses, is he?

[Incognito]

Refereeing isn't any worse than it has been in the past,though really it should be better what with them now being full-time though.

[Exiled in Texas]

Interesting how all these "Mistakes" are really all about the "Opinion of the referee".

 

"A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following 6 offenses in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force"[/Quote]

 

"A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play"[/Quote]

 

So are these really mistakes, or just a difference of opinion?  (I assume that the referee did see the incident with sufficient detail to make his decision)

[JH]

Trip, or attempts to trip.

Pushes, or attempts to push

Strikes, or attempts to strike.

 

There's no opinion in it. Either it happens, or it doesn't.

[Exiled in Texas]

Trip, or attempts to trip.

Pushes, or attempts to push

Strikes, or attempts to strike.

 

There's no opinion in it. Either it happens, or it doesn't.

 

It's all opinion.......was it a trip/push/strike?  Or was it incidental contact?  It's all opinion.

 

That's the challenge that all new referees face.  They takes the class, and then sits the exam.  The exam question says "the red defender trips the blue attacker inside the penalty area.  What the correct restart?"

 

So for the new referee they have been given important information that is undeniable for the exam. A trip took place, and the position of the trip was inside the penalty area.  So it's simple to decide that the correct re-start is a penalty kick to blue.

 

In the real world of the game....the referee must first decide if indeed a trip took place. Was it a trip? Was it incidental contact? Was it a dive?  Then they must determine where it took place....if it was right on the edge of the area, did contact initiate outside of the area and then continue inside? Did contact initiated outside and then the player fell inside? Was it all inside the area.  All of this is for the referee to decide.....in their opinion.....exactly what happened.

 

It's all opinion.

[Neil]

Trip, or attempts to trip.

Pushes, or attempts to push

Strikes, or attempts to strike.

 

There's no opinion in it. Either it happens, or it doesn't.

 

It's all opinion.......was it a trip/push/strike?  Or was it incidental contact?   It's all opinion.

 

That's the challenge that all new referees face.  They takes the class, and then sits the exam.  The exam question says "the red defender trips the blue attacker inside the penalty area.  What the correct restart?"

 

So for the new referee they have been given important information that is undeniable for the exam. A trip took place, and the position of the trip was inside the penalty area.  So it's simple to decide that the correct re-start is a penalty kick to blue.

 

In the real world of the game....the referee must first decide if indeed a trip took place. Was it a trip? Was it incidental contact? Was it a dive?  Then they must determine where it took place....if it was right on the edge of the area, did contact initiate outside of the area and then continue inside? Did contact initiated outside and then the player fell inside? Was it all inside the area.   All of this is for the referee to decide.....in their opinion.....exactly what happened.

 

It's all opinion.

 

Fair enough perspective. It's also worth noting how little time they have to make a decision. Spilt-second a lot of the time.

[Exiled in Texas]

Agreed Neil - you're standing there indicating who got the free kick, the half of the coaches and players are screaming at you and you're thinking "i'd love to see that again - I'd love to be able to make sure that I got it right".

 

 

Split-second is right too......especially the offside decisions.  How many times have you thought a player was on/off when you first saw it and then watched it on replay and realised you thought wrong.  And the times when even just replaying the action still doesn't make it obvious and it take a freeze-frame to show when the pass is made and the player positions - on/off by half a leg.  Impossible to get right 100% of the time in a game.

[Guest neesy111]

The simple fact is, it's the same referee's that are making huge huge clangers.  Clattenberg probably has more than the rest of the ref's put together. 

 

I can accept mistakes but some decisions made especially the last few weeks have been dreadful.  Linesman to me have harder jobs calling off-side decisions imo.

 

The way the FA & FIFA acts does not help them one bit.  If Cricket, Rugby, Tennis for example can use technology for decisions why can't football.  Why is it such a bloody special case for it not to happen in Football.  One decision could cost a team relegation and £90M in revenue the stakes nowadays are simply far too high. It will make it for a much fairer game as well, which benefits everyone apart from the top 4.

[Exiled in Texas]

Agree that technology would help.

 

But one decision cannot relegate a team. It might look like it, but there were 40 games to play, and during that some decisions helped win points while others didn't. At the end of the day, the crap teams go down.

 

Now in cup games.....yes, one decision could look like it made a big difference. But there was probably a fair few other moments during the 90 that were equally decisive.

[Guest neesy111]

Agree that technology would help.

 

But one decision cannot relegate a team. It might look like it, but there were 40 games to play, and during that some decisions helped win points while others didn't. At the end of the day, the crap teams go down.

 

Now in cup games.....yes, one decision could look like it made a big difference. But there was probably a fair few other moments during the 90 that were equally decisive.

 

One huge clanger could, like a Phantom goal (Watford v Crystal Palace 2009).  That is when referee's/linesman cannot be defended.

[Exiled in Texas]

Agreed   Can't/Won't defend that one. 

 

(and hopefully I never screw up that badly)