Optimistic Nut Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Wes Brown maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 KK vs MON? MON doesn't even coach and leaves the tactics to others. He is basically the motivator. KK was an excellent coach. Everyone who has ever worked under him aknowledged this. Even Tony Adams who was quite critical of him from a defensive coaching perspective, said KK's sessions were fun and varied. Owen also criticised his coaching when England managed but still concedes from a general coaching perspective, sessions were fun and varied. I guess players like Owen and Adams were used to more technical coaching from Houllier and Wenger respectively but all you have to do is look at the performances KK's side's produced and just how many players' games changed for the better under his coaching. Tactically KK is no genius but he's no mug either. That 4-3-3 with Owen deeper was a tactical masterstroke and in his first spell at Newcastle he changed things tactically many a time and many a time for the better. There is no comparision. KK's is a top coach and a very good manager overall. If it wasn't for his emotional weaknesses he'd probably be a top manager today. If I were Chelsea, I'd appoint him because he'd get them playing great football, sign great players, and would easily have them competing again. By the way, I rate MON, he's an above average manager, but he relies more on his assistants and coaches than most and when the motivation doesn't work, he can look like an average manager. Watching some of the mackem games, it appears they have been a bit like us, picking up results despite playing shite football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 KK at Chelsea aye, right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 KK back in management aye, right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What is wrong with people? KK pisses all over MON Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What is wrong with people? KK pisses all over MON they know, they just look for a KK bite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Could KK handle a cold wednesday night at Inverness like MONg could? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Aye, can see them nicking a draw at home to Spurs. Only thing that matters though is the amount of possession, they'll have more in all the games. FTM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Mackem ranting on the Legends that he had to queue for two hours at the SoS today as a ST holder for a quarter final replay ticket. Didn't even get his usual seat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There is no comparision. KK's is a top coach and a very good manager overall. If it wasn't for his emotional weaknesses he'd probably be a top manager today. what a load of fucking shit, i'm sorry like i certainly am not trying to get a bite but nor can read this without comment in the above sentence you've just outlined why there's a comparison to be had, keegan had his strengths and also his weaknesses, you can't just ignore the weaknesses because they suit you man i was around during the keegan years and remember it very fondly, he created something special for a short time that had a lasting effect on NUFC for sure...you can't ignore the other periods of his career though, promoted fulham with a lot to spend relatively, was very poor at england, did ok at man city overall but nothing special and looked like he might have a newfound maturity with us the second time around only for it all to blow up we're biased about keegan, and rightly so, but step back and you'd see that his record puts him as a good manager at best, more likely above average MoN achieved a lot with leicester, winning 2 domestic cups, won everything in scotland (fine not gonna overstate that), started well at villa before it fell off and has now come to sunderland and started well again without really having any players of his own choice there's very little between them overall imo other than keegan had the team playing wonderful football for 3-4 seasons, and why shouldn't keegans meltdowns be counted against him out of interest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Winning domestic cups is nice but ultimately means f*** all in terms of "is a team good" look no further than brum last season. O'Neill has never came anywhere near winning a top flight domestic title, never created a team that's good to watch, never turned a club round the way Keegan did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Winning domestic cups is nice but ultimately means f*** all in terms of "is a team good" look no further than brum last season. O'Neill has never came anywhere near winning a top flight domestic title, never created a team that's good to watch, never turned a club round the way Keegan did. the willingness to belittle his achievements at leicester so easily is beyond me, now the mark of a successful manager is not to win a trophy? he got them in europe, established them in the top flight, won 2 domestic cups and lost another final...it's hardly like he just fucking fluked it is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Poor teams can win cups its quite simple really. If he has them challenging for the title then you'd have a point. There not a great deal of difference between oneill acheivments and sounesses. ( except balckburn played much better football than Leicester) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Poor teams can win cups its quite simple really. If he has them challenging for the title then you'd have a point. There not a great deal of difference between oneill acheivments and sounesses. ( except balckburn played much better football than Leicester) good teams can win cups too, just not ours apparently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Poor teams can win cups its quite simple really. If he has them challenging for the title then you'd have a point. There not a great deal of difference between oneill acheivments and sounesses. ( except balckburn played much better football than Leicester) good teams can win cups too, just not ours apparently Average team status confirmed. Verified with forum math and logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 i just don't get it man, winning cups can be disregarded as an achievement but having a team that looked pretty and achieved nothing is the barometer for success? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 i just don't get it man, winning cups can be disregarded as an achievement but having a team that looked pretty and achieved nothing is the barometer for success? Aye, could be argued that what O'Neill did at Leicester (still at grotty Filbert Street) on a much, much smaller budget and without the draw of KK was far more impressive than Keegan spending his way to the top of the Premiership, only to blow a 12pt lead. I dislike MON (due to the constant hype he gets from the media) but he genuinely did an amazing job at Leicester and a reasonable one at Celtic (in terms of Europe) - to say that KK is miles better than him is ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 i just don't get it man, winning cups can be disregarded as an achievement but having a team that looked pretty and achieved nothing is the barometer for success? Aye, could be argued that what O'Neill did at Leicester (still at grotty Filbert Street) on a much, much smaller budget and without the draw of KK was far more impressive than Keegan spending his way to the top of the Premiership, only to blow a 12pt lead. I dislike MON (due to the constant hype he gets from the media) but he genuinely did an amazing job at Leicester and a reasonable one at Celtic (in terms of Europe) - to say that KK is miles better than him is ridiculous. i wouldn't look down on what either of them did or achieved personally, both have their merits, but to outright dismiss MoN (who i also don't really like) as a vastly inferior manager to keegan is unreal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Really frustrating that considering the great team KK assembled, we never once came even close to winning a cup competition. Two quarter finals appearances was pretty disappointing considering our strong league performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well its up to you I suppose, you can choose between a manager who won two league cups and done little in the league or one who saved a team from relgation to the third tier, got them promoted first time of asking, finished 3rd in their first season up, then 6th then only lost out on the title on the last day the season after that. No contest in my eyes. Did anyone day oneill was vastly inferior to Keegan ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 not sure which part you're missing, all i've personally ever said is that in the grand scheme they'll be considered at a similar level of manager you've offered nothing by way of explanation to suggest why that isn't the case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Except spell out that one was better in the league which is what really sorts out good teams from the rest. I'm not putting Keegan alongside Ferguson but I would put oneills acheivments alongside sounesses. You ought to spell out why oneill should rank alongside Keegan, take out the league cups, which as we've saw prove nothing and you wouldn't put them near each other. You're really letting them cloud the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well its up to you I suppose, you can choose between a manager who won two league cups and done little in the league or one who saved a team from relgation to the third tier, got them promoted first time of asking, finished 3rd in their first season up, then 6th then only lost out on the title on the last day the season after that. No contest in my eyes. Did anyone day oneill was vastly inferior to Keegan ? I would say that MON did far more at Leicester (when you factor in their history, size of club and finances available to him) than Keegan did at NUFC. As Mojo says, neither were disappointments (except for Keegan walking out) but what MON did has yet to be surpassed; whereas it could be said that Chelsea have already exceeded Keegan by spending their way to success, rather than 'nearly success'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Except spell out that one was better in the league which is what really sorts out good teams from the rest. I'm not putting Keegan alongside Ferguson but I would put oneills acheivments alongside sounesses. i'd like to see that explained in detail like, can only assume you're using rangers/celtic & blackburn/leicester as a comparison...does it not count in sounesses "achievements" that he basically ruined 2 football clubs single handed? MoN doesn't have that in his locker, unfortunately for him, hey here's hoping he's about to add it now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Check how much Keegan spent on taking us from 4th bottom of the championship to 3rd in the prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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