Gallowgate End Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I think people struggle a bit with there being a fairly large middle ground between being a bit more ambitious in games and going fully gung ho attacking "I suspect Rafa is too afraid of getting the team to attack because on the one hand our attacking quality is so low that we're not likely to make use of more numbers getting forward, and on the other hand if we open up we leave ourselves exposed to counter attacks. Combine the two (shiite attack, open defense) and it's high risk to go gung ho be a bit more ambitiousat home." Happy? Nobody can make excuses for having no shots on target at home against the worse defence in the league - 7 points out of 27 prove it's not working something has to change either the way we play or replacing personnel who are fixtures in the team despite offering virtually nothing. Was it high risk last year when we competed with Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea by taking a more ambitious approach in those games - were we gung ho then? Rubbish I’d bet around half of the 20 teams in our league have had a match with 0 shots on target it isn’t as rare as the moaners are loving to make out. Burnley had 0 shots on target against Spurs and the Skysports panel called it a “Heroic” effort Yet we’ve scored past EVERY Top 6 team we’ve played this season and scored past ALL the current Top 8 teams. We even scored 2 first 10 minute goals at Old Trafford something no team has ever done in Premier League history at Old Trafford Brighton had a 3 match winning run having just 1 shot on target each match when they played us we had the 2nd most shots in the whole of Europe of a team to lose that weekend only Real Madrid had more The moaners must think all the other teams in our half of the league like Brighton and that play some way more attacking football than Rafa.. such Richard Keys/Paul Merson type rubbish we arn’t playing any less attacking than half the league. Palace took 10 games or something just to score a open play goal at home this season And Southamton went on a run of 5 games out of 6 without even scoring. Cardiff had a touch map that showed their centre half had the most touches in the oppositions box after 10 games not any of their in play attacking players were top There are plenty of examples that a lot of teams in our half of the league arn’t playing some way more attacking football than Rafa that the moaners must think everyone else in our half are playing the only guy that did got sacked after conceding like 40 goals in 13 matches Rafa out Jokanovic in.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I think people struggle a bit with there being a fairly large middle ground between being a bit more ambitious in games and going fully gung ho attacking "I suspect Rafa is too afraid of getting the team to attack because on the one hand our attacking quality is so low that we're not likely to make use of more numbers getting forward, and on the other hand if we open up we leave ourselves exposed to counter attacks. Combine the two (shiite attack, open defense) and it's high risk to go gung ho be a bit more ambitious at home." Happy? Nobody can make excuses for having no shots on target at home against the worse defence in the league - 7 points out of 27 prove it's not working something has to change either the way we play or replacing personnel who are fixtures in the team despite offering virtually nothing. Was it high risk last year when we competed with Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea by taking a more ambitious approach in those games - were we gung ho then? What are you rambling on about? All I've done is written what I think is Rafa's thought process. I've not said I agree with his philosophies, tactics, lineup, subs, decisions, instructions, etc. He's a cautious manager who balances risks/rewards when setting his teams up on a game by game basis. He would've gone for the low risk gamble of not conceding or having weaknesses exploited like e.g. West Ham did to us, and relied on a bit of magic to get a win. Bit like Pards, except Rafa is actually good at setting up a defense, hence why we came away with one point instead of zero. Could the football be better? Undoubtedly. Are there better managers out there who create teams that play a better brand of football? A few, yes, but the ones who've had any form of success are pipe dreams and Rafa is better than pretty much everyone else who isn't them. Could results be worse if we played more expansively? Certainly - see McClaren/Carver. What's there to argue about? In terms of criticizing him for one poor performance/result or his general negative tactics at home, I have no problem with that, but that's not criticizing him within the wider context. We know he's a cautious/defensive manager - even when we were in the Championship at home to dire opposition, teams at the foot of the table with zero hope of stringing a few passes together whilst we had vastly superior players, he set the team up defensively and stuck one up top. Last year we played defensively most of the time, as you've implied through mentioning a few exceptions. So if anyone was expecting any different this year, especially given how bad a 4th transfer window in a row was and how every other PL team has improved/invested heavily, then that's just a case of expecting a leopard to change its spots. It gets even worse when you factor in declining morale this year, Rafa's contract nearly being up (teams always perform worse), individual players being off form, etc. The point of backing Rafa for me at least is the knowledge that if you give him just a reasonable transfer budget and a competent negotiator to sign players for him, he'll turn this club around because that's what he's done elsewhere consistently. He won't produce a good footballing side through his tactics or philosophy, but he'll produce it through his knowledge of players/the transfer market, knowing what he's looking for, and his ability to organize. Heck, if we had just signed Andros Townsend in the multiple windows where it was feasible had Ashley not been a dick, we'd probably be far better going forward - and that's just one player. Imagine if he could bring in half a dozen of his preferred targets and not the cast-offs noone else wants. Until Rafa gets that sort of backing it's really hard imo to be overly critical of him having no faith in this group of players to go out and dominate "lesser" sides. PS you mention Fulham's defensive stats and completely ignore the attacking ones which reflect really poorly on us. Only Huddersfield have scored less goals than us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I reckon if we won the FA Cup final on penalties with no shots on target during the game we'd still have some fans moaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Two years on and Rafa is still wrong in his tactics. in-fucking-believable. Our fans really do deserve what they get. Merry fucking Christmas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Two years on and Rafa is still wrong in his tactics. in-fucking-believable. Our fans really do deserve what they get. Merry fucking Christmas. Well at least there's SOME malcontent with 'how things are'. The challenge is to educate and channel that malcontent to the correct target, rather than one of top 3 best managers we've had in the last 50 years. Newcastle Ununited Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Bit upset we've got so many moronic supporters like. Think Rafa is aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 We’d never have come back up to the PL if it wasn’t for Rafa. Fans who slag him and his tactics are fucking imbeciles. Should be bussed to Sunderland to watch that club play football in the league we would be in. So those who slag wor Rafa...really need to at least show him the utmost respect for wanting more from this club than just surviving, for expecting this club challenge near the top, and for always respecting the community and our fans more than any other manager has bar Keegan and SBR. Show some bloody respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 BUT SO BORING. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 just wish rafa hadnt come out with that "the squad is stronger this season" bullshit statement. no need for it. did nobody any favours including himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenige Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 just wish rafa hadnt come out with that "the squad is stronger this season" bullshit statement. no need for it. did nobody any favours including himself. It is a stronger squad. Just everyone else around us got much stronger squads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 We’d never have come back up to the PL if it wasn’t for Rafa. Fans who slag him and his tactics are fucking imbeciles. Should be bussed to Sunderland to watch that club play football in the league we would be in. So those who slag wor Rafa...really need to at least show him the utmost respect for wanting more from this club than just surviving, for expecting this club challenge near the top, and for always respecting the community and our fans more than any other manager has bar Keegan and SBR. Show some bloody respect. Its perfectly reasonable to love what hes about, think hes the right man but still question some of his tactics and decisions, this is what people don't understand its either one extreme or another on here, I'm firmly in the camp of being a big fan of Rafa but I think he has made mistakes and needs to put things right, like the way we approach home games, and using the squad a bit more, such as Muto... and managing certain players better i.e Murphy. That doesn't mean I or anybody else is "slagging him off" its just an opinion up for debate like anything else on here regarding the club, sometimes its like a cult and you can't say anything without being shot down as a Rafa hater or Ashley sympathizer, some of our fans really need to chill out. Hes not perfect, he is and has made mistakes and it's OK to talk about it and still like him at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 We’d never have come back up to the PL if it wasn’t for Rafa. Fans who slag him and his tactics are f***ing imbeciles. Should be bussed to Sunderland to watch that club play football in the league we would be in. So those who slag wor Rafa...really need to at least show him the utmost respect for wanting more from this club than just surviving, for expecting this club challenge near the top, and for always respecting the community and our fans more than any other manager has bar Keegan and SBR. Show some bloody respect. Its perfectly reasonable to love what hes about, think hes the right man but still question some of his tactics and decisions, this is what people don't understand its either one extreme or another on here, I'm firmly in the camp of being a big fan of Rafa but I think he has made mistakes and needs to put things right, like the way we approach home games, and using the squad a bit more, such as Muto... and managing certain players better i.e Murphy. That doesn't mean I or anybody else is "slagging him off" its just an opinion up for debate like anything else on here regarding the club, sometimes its like a cult and you can't say anything without being shot down as a Rafa hater or Ashley sympathizer, some of our fans really need to chill out. Hes not perfect, he is and has made mistakes and it's OK to talk about it and still like him at the same time. Decent post, the problem is with those fans who don't realise what Rafa is working with and seem to expect us to be better than the likes of Fulham, when Rafa himself is the ONLY reason we are even COMPETING with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 We’d never have come back up to the PL if it wasn’t for Rafa. Fans who slag him and his tactics are fucking imbeciles. Should be bussed to Sunderland to watch that club play football in the league we would be in. So those who slag wor Rafa...really need to at least show him the utmost respect for wanting more from this club than just surviving, for expecting this club challenge near the top, and for always respecting the community and our fans more than any other manager has bar Keegan and SBR. Show some bloody respect. Its perfectly reasonable to love what hes about, think hes the right man but still question some of his tactics and decisions, this is what people don't understand its either one extreme or another on here, I'm firmly in the camp of being a big fan of Rafa but I think he has made mistakes and needs to put things right, like the way we approach home games, and using the squad a bit more, such as Muto... and managing certain players better i.e Murphy. That doesn't mean I or anybody else is "slagging him off" its just an opinion up for debate like anything else on here regarding the club, sometimes its like a cult and you can't say anything without being shot down as a Rafa hater or Ashley sympathizer, some of our fans really need to chill out. Hes not perfect, he is and has made mistakes and it's OK to talk about it and still like him at the same time. I said it on a previous page, I don’t agree with some of what he does for sure. But I trust a man who’s CV of success in football and knowledge of the game far outweighs every single persons opinion here. So while I may not agree with him I will defer to his knowledge in the long run, over an entire season. You’re not someone I’m even Trying to argue with because you’re a proper football poster and get it. My issue is with any supporter of this club who has the thought processes to truly slag Rafa off. Again my reason is this is a man who wants more for this club because he knows what it means to us fans and to the city of Newcastle. He wants it to be successful and challenge for honors and has stuck around doing that for us for nearly as long as he can do it until it’s a fight he can’t win with MA. That’s all I’m saying. People who don’t respect this man for wanting better for this club are the smallest minded shithouses in sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest covmag Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Bit upset we've got so many moronic supporters like. Think Rafa is aswell. The vast majority get him , Rafa knows the craic, he’s now just seeing out the contract knowing all he can do is keep us up, devoid of proper investment it’s as much as he can do.His era is at an end now, it’s finished only when he’s gone and we are left with Ashley and some chancer will we realise just how much of a good manager he is. All very predictable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 I reckon if we won the FA Cup final on penalties with no shots on target during the game we'd still have some fans moaning. Would rather lose 4-3 than win on penalties, where is the fun in that?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 I think the team and players are so entrenched in a certain way of playing which is designed to keep us in the game, concede as few goals as possible and eek out points, they find it hard to break from that at home where the onus is on them to come out and play. And for Rafa who has had to mould the team and players to play the way we do because of the lack of quality and options, he is struggling to find another way or different ways to adapt our play without sacrificing or weakening our strengths. It’s more down to the simple fact we just don’t have the right players though than anything tactical, we have no creativity and we lack pace and guile going forward to play more attacking, to react spontaneously in an open game or to break down a defence. Rafa is trying and trying, but he cannot and nor will he deviate from the game plan that has been successful in keeping us in games, getting points on the road and keeping the goals against column down over those we are competing with to stay up which we did so well last season. It’s horrible to watch, it’s going to see us struggle at home, but it is likely going to keep us up. I think the performance at Fulham really exasperated Rafa because regardless of what he tries or who he picks, he just doesn’t have the players. There is not much more he can do, we can only hope the players keep fighting, never give up, take their chances when they come and try and remain a strong as possible at the back and hope it’s enough to stay up. If we do it will be Rafa’s greates acheivement as a manager, he can’t keep making it work though and nor should he as he’s far too good for this shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 HTT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 At this current time, there isn't a single manager who'd be better at keeping us up than Rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 At this current time, there isn't a single manager who'd be better at keeping us up than Rafa. Aye. I hate the way we play and he’s not above criticism and while I’d put Murphy in the side on a regular basis over say Ritchie and don’t like how he gets dropped completely after a rare start, it’s a case of 6 and 2 threes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Leave this shit show behind Rafa does us all a fucking favour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 ew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Leave this shit show behind Rafa does us all a fucking favour Just re-read my post, I mean leave now Rafa and give us a chance to go down in a blaze of protests with the hope the fat fucka loses a fortune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Not close to signing anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 ew People like that absolute whopper shouldn't be allowed out the house on their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Presumably he thinks his accolades as having the North East's toughest paper round trump Rafa's long list of trophies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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