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Guest HTT II
5 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

You’d be surprised. Ultimately the owner signs off the deals and honestly I was glad he didn’t consult pardew. He wanted fucking Colin Kazim Richards. He basically kept us in the league. We had a midfield two of cabaye and tiote for about 6m net, and they dominated a lot of teams 

We nearly went down under Pardew even with our many Carr purples, we’d have been fucked if he had any say on signings! This a manager who wouldn’t play Tevez, HBA or Mascherano. And Bruce, if he was given free reign over signings, we’d’ be SAFC!

 

 

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4 minutes ago, HTT II said:

He was doing his job man :lol:

 

Rafa did his job getting us promoted and keeping us up, Carr did his job getting us players to do that job for the owner and manager and to also profit from. Take away Carr and we go down under Pardew with a team of Marlon Harewood’s man!

 

 

 

Yes, like Charnley was doing his job and Kinnear, Justin Barnes, etc....

 

Regarding Pardew, I'm sure he was the one who got Demba Ba to the club through his West Ham connections and not Carr.

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Guest HTT II
2 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Yes, like Charnley was doing his job and Kinnear, Justin Barnes, etc....

 

Regarding Pardew, I'm sure he was the one who got Demba Ba to the club through his West Ham connections and not Carr.

Connections with WHU? He burnt them there man :lol: It was because Carr found out about his clause and because we were cheap skates!

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Guest HTT II

Ashley should have sacked Carr off and just did the scouring himself, 11 Alan Smith’s…

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8 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Justin Barnes was a mercenary essentially, Kinnear? Took a shit load of money and was already rich. Would you wanted to not have a scouting department? I don’t understand it. If we hadn’t have got those players we’d likely be in Sunderland’s position 

 

I would have liked someone with his influence to either get Ashley to make changes to the club setup or leave. Honestly, we could have just relied on agents to send us players which is probably closer to the truth anyway seeing as we primarily only recruited from one country.

 

The staunch defence of Carr in this thread is why I think his role was exaggerated as it was seen as one positive at the club; it gave some fans belief that things might get better through his signings and that the club knew what it was doing. In my view though the perception didn't quite match reality.  

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14 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Connections with WHU? He burnt them there man :lol: It was because Carr found out about his clause and because we were cheap skates!

I don't think he did, I'm sure it was Pardew though I can't find anything through a quick Google.

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Guest HTT II
1 minute ago, macphisto said:

 

I would have liked someone with his influence to either get Ashley to make changes to the club setup or leave. Honestly, we could have just relied on agents to send us players which is probably closer to the truth anyway seeing as we primarily only recruited from one country.

 

The staunch defence of Carr in this thread is why I think his role was exaggerated as it was seen as one positive at the club; it gave some fans belief that things might get better through his signings and that the club knew what it was doing. In my view though the perception didn't quite match reality.  

Again, this is all such a weird take. As a fan you want your club to sign good players, of course we knew any good player signed was for their potential resale value. But what your are effectively getting at is NUFC managed by McLaren or managed by Rafa? Again CARR WAS DOING HIS JOB and very well. We’d have had at least one more relegation if not for him and I will put this to you, Cisse or Harewood, Cabaye or Colback? Carr made Ashley millions and with it kept us in the top-flight for 10 years or seasons. Yes his recommendations enabled Ashley to ultimately profit, but what was the alternative? Again you either end up with a McLaren or a Rafa, or a Cisse or Harewood or a Colback or a Cabaye. I know what I’d have preferred!

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Guest HTT II
11 minutes ago, macphisto said:

I don't think he did, I'm sure it was Pardew though I can't find anything through a quick Google.

Pardew did not have any meaningful connections with WHU, Ba was totally down to Carr, and agents. Those two components of the recruitment process play the biggest part in a player signing or not, not a manager or an owner. And it mainly all boils down to cost. In our case the bare minimum and being able to offer a player a shop window and decent wages and then looking to profit on any potential transfer fee. Carr’s job was to identify players and recommend players to the club to pursue, we did that and profited from that on and off the pitch, a job well done as that was his job.

 

 

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Guest HTT II
3 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

We’d be in league 1 I reckon 

Give a Pardew cart blanche in the transfer market regardless of budget and we would not be a PL team today, guaranteed. 

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3 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

It’s just not how it works tho. Agents peddle players all the damn time, I can screen shot you now some doing in it an telegram group I’m in. You’re really reducing his role, he did a really good job objectively, it’s the morality of it you can question. If it was that easy how did we get Cabaye when Wenger didn’t even know he had a release clause? 

Because we had a relationship with an agency(s) where the premise was that we would provide a platform in the PL and then the player would move on for big money in the future. That's how we were set up and sold to players and agents. If Cabaye had gone to Arsenal then he would have gone for the initial low fee and that's it; there would not be the prospect of a large transfer a few years later. Cabaye would also not have the time to adapt to the league like at Newcastle if he needed a season to bed in. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

If you took players peddled by agents you’d be highly fucked 

It's proven we did do it, that's why Keegan left as one of the signings was to do a favour for an agent.

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Guest HTT II
1 minute ago, macphisto said:

Because we had a relationship with an agency(s) where the premise was that we would provide a platform in the PL and then the player would move on for big money in the future. That's how we were set up and sold to players and agents. If Cabaye had gone to Arsenal then he would have gone for the initial low fee and that's it; there would not be the prospect of a large transfer a few years later. Cabaye would also not have the time to adapt to the league like at Newcastle if he needed a season to bed in. 

 

 

 

Hey Carr, that player Cabaye you scouted and recommended who we ended up signing for under 4m, who was a top player for us, but because he wasn’t a world-class player for us and we only got 20m + for him, expect your P45 any day now you absolute failure of cunt! Again your take is weird, if my mum had balls etc.

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Guest HTT II

I honestly don’t get it man :lol:

 

Our scout scouted and recommended players who we either didn’t sign or did and more often than not those players who did sign worked out well and we profited on, but = shite!

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Guest HTT II
1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

I genuinely can’t get my head round equating Carr and Barnes. Barnes knew nothing about football, a total lackey 

Barnes would be sat next to Bishop in a L1 fixture if not for Carr FFS!

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Just now, ManDoon said:

Exactly! But Carr’s signings were not agent favours 

Our whole business model was set up for agents to make money, signing for us and then moving on after a few years.  

 

Look at the players signed for over 6 million Euro. How many were actually any good and how many stayed for more than two seasons? The agents were laughing all the way and I can't think of another club operating with such a high turnover of their most expensive players. 

 

It's interesting to note that once Carr left, we never returned to the model of high player turnover where we spent a decent amount of money. Been a fairly static squad after Rafa.

 

Papiss Demba Cissé: €12.00m

Vurnon Anita:  €8.50m
Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa: €8.00m
Mathieu Debuchy: €6.20m

Rémy Cabella: €10.00m
Siem de Jong: €8.70m
Emmanuel Rivière: €6.32m
Daryl Janmaat: €6.00m

Georginio Wijnaldum: €20.00m
Aleksandar Mitrovic: €18.50m
Florian Thauvin: €18.35m
Jonjo Shelvey: €16.00m (Carr Signing?)
Andros Townsend: €15.70m (Carr Signing?)
Mbemba: €12.00m
Henri Saivet: €6.00m

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9 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

I genuinely can’t get my head round equating Carr and Barnes. Barnes knew nothing about football, a total lackey 

Quite easy, he helped to facilitate the way the club was run under Ashley. Maybe Barnes needed the money like Carr?????

 

Anyway Mandoon and HTT, it's very late where I am so off to sleep but it's been a good discussion!

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On 02/05/2022 at 23:39, HaydnNUFC said:

Me and me dad were talking in the pub for absolutely ages about this, what is your all time NUFC XI but only counting players that you've seen? Obviously my list is gonna be far more depressing than anyone else's on here :lol:

 

(4-3-3) Dubravka, Trippier, Coloccini, Schär/Burn, Enrique, Tiote, Cabaye, Bruno, Ben Arfa, Saint-Maximin, Wilson.

 

Not doing a formation, just smushing the best players in:

 

Given

 

Beye (another few months and it'll probably be Trippier)

Woodgate

José Enrique

 

Solano

Beardsley

Lee

 

Ginola

Ben Arfa

 

Cole

Shearer

 

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Guest HTT II
12 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I remember Jeffers and Zenden were our first options ahead of Robert & Bellamy. Lucky escape there.

Some people claim that showed Sir Bobby got lucky and maybe lacked good judgment because those two kind of flopped, but what it showed was he identified what we needed in the side, pace, mobility and wing play and I reckon if we had of signed those two, they would have been good players for us, not at the level of Robert and Bellamy, but they would have helped our side as their attributes were exactly what we needed. We actually took a big gamble on Bellamy who had been relegated with Coventry and was considered a flop there. Neither him nor Robert would have excelled if not for Sir Bobby’s man management, nous and ability to set them up to play to their own strengths and the team. I was never a fan of Zenden, all pace, nothing else. But I rated Jeffers highly and at the time he was a hot prospect. 

 

 

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Guest HTT II
12 hours ago, macphisto said:

Quite easy, he helped to facilitate the way the club was run under Ashley. Maybe Barnes needed the money like Carr?????

 

Anyway Mandoon and HTT, it's very late where I am so off to sleep but it's been a good discussion!

Again that was his remit, what can you not understand about that? He did his job better than expected and did it really well at times. Without Carr we would have went down again and would have maybe never come back up. You can’t equate him to Barnes who literally offered nothing, his biggest role at NUFC was to say NO on behalf of our cowardly owner who didn’t have the balls to talk to managers or deal with every day decisions himself. That is Barnes’ total sum role at NUFC. Carr scouted, identified and recommended players which was his job, most of them becoming more than good enough for us and some who the club made a massive profit on, again that was his job and it’s the job of any scout. 

 

 

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Guest HTT II
On 02/05/2022 at 23:39, HaydnNUFC said:

Me and me dad were talking in the pub for absolutely ages about this, what is your all time NUFC XI but only counting players that you've seen? Obviously my list is gonna be far more depressing than anyone else's on here :lol:

 

(4-3-3) Dubravka, Trippier, Coloccini, Schär/Burn, Enrique, Tiote, Cabaye, Bruno, Ben Arfa, Saint-Maximin, Wilson.Given

 

1st

Given

Venison Woodgate Albert Beresford

Solano Lee Speed Sellars

Shearer Cole 

2nd

 

Krul

Trippier Colo Dabizas Domi

Ginola Batty Cabaye Robert

Beardsley Ferdinand

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Guest HTT II

@HaydnNUFCget your dad to list his, it would be really interesting to see who he would pick given he’s experienced more years and players than yourself and myself!

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Guest HTT II

We’ve had the luxury of seeing so many top and great players for us we could easily interchange many based on a whim. If I was a coach or manager I’d go with the following:

 

Given

Tripper    Woodgate   Colo   Bernard

Batty       Lee

Solano         Beardsley   Ginola 

Shearer 

 

That team would challenge for the title easily.

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9 minutes ago, HTT II said:

@HaydnNUFCget your dad to list his, it would be really interesting to see who he would pick given he’s experienced more years and players than yourself and myself!


I’ve text my dad asking for the same. His first game was Stan Anderson’s debut sometime early 60s but knowing him it’ll be:

 

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

Green

 

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