joeyt Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 13 hours ago, Kanji said: “how dare you want all games available to streaming service, you digital age cunt” but what if I’m a Newcastle fan living in a different city and I can’t make the games because im caring for a sick family member. “find a way to get there or follow online.” *meanwhile some of you stream it illegally. It's to protect our football pyramid's attendances and revenue. I don't think there's any other country in the world with as strong a following all the way down their league structure as here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 There's too many Americans on here now. Was twitching like Harry reading the last few pages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Isn't it about time the world's most popular sport started making suggestions to improve the shitty American sports instead of the other way round all the time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Yorkie said: What's wrong with the relegation play-off idea anyway? Anything to increase completion within the division should be seen as a good thing, surely? What's wrong with the current structure as it is now and has been for numerous decades? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, Wullie said: Isn't it about time the world's most popular sport started making suggestions to improve the shitty American sports instead of the other way round all the time? You should hear how many Americans say "they do this in the Premier league, we should do that too" with a lot of our sports. My friends and yearn for a pyramid in MLS. We wished things werent tipped exclusively for the top league only. 13 minutes ago, Froggy said: There's too many Americans on here now. Was twitching like Harry reading the last few pages. There's really not. Some of us have been on here longer than you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, joeyt said: What's wrong with the current structure as it is now and has been for numerous decades? "A good idea is a good idea forever," eh? There's nothing 'wrong' with it, but there's an argument that it should adapt to a context which had changed dramatically. Like anything, I just wouldn't close the door to potential improvement, particularly with the league in the current state it's in. Like I said before, anything to increase the amount of competition/reduce the amount of dead rubber matches should be seen as a positive, surely? If you're 19th and six points adrift of 17th with six games left, it's game over. Likewise if you're 15th and six points clear of relegation - marooned in lower mid-table, there's basically nothing to play for. Introduce a relegation play-off for teams finishing 15th-18th and suddenly there's a layer of hope to those at the bottom and jeopardy to those going nowhere. It would make for a far more interesting end to the season and one which is a lot more sensitive to change. We really shouldn't be averse to change. The Premier League has been going for thirty years and has gradually become less competitive. The last weeks, in particular, are a drama-free procession for the majority of teams. A bit of a shake-up wouldn't hurt at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kanji said: There's really not. Some of us have been on here longer than you Aye and Trump has been on the planet longer than all of us, doesn't mean he's not completely insane. Leave our sport alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Introduce a relegation play-off for teams finishing 15th-18th and suddenly there's a layer of hope to those at the bottom and jeopardy to those going nowhere. It would make for a far more interesting end to the season and one which is a lot more sensitive to change. Stop it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Yorkie said: "A good idea is a good idea forever," eh? There's nothing 'wrong' with it; like anything I just wouldn't close the door to potential improvement, particularly with the league in the current state it's in. Like I said before, anything to increase the amount of competition/reduce the amount of dead rubber matches should be seen as a positive, surely? If you're 19th and six points adrift of 17th with six games left, it's game over. Likewise if you're 15th and six points clear of relegation - marooned in lower mid-table, there's basically nothing to play for. Introduce a relegation play-off for teams finishing 15th-18th and suddenly there's a layer of hope to those at the bottom and jeopardy to those going nowhere. It would make for a far more interesting end to the season and one which is a lot more sensitive to change. We really shouldn't be averse to change. The Premier League has been going for thirty years and has gradually become less competitive. The last weeks, in particular, are a drama-free procession for the majority of teams. A bit of a shake-up wouldn't hurt at all. If anything I think the last few weeks have shown how competive the division is? We got a draw against Man City and nearly got one against Liverpool Newly promoted Fulham get a draw against Liverpool. Southampton beat Chelsea. Apart from the obvious VAR, our league has had had a great start to the season. Really don't see how any sort of playoffs would improve anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-boehly-all-star-comments-fit-the-worst-stereotypes-of-american-owners Decent article on Boehly. I think people get particularly precious about changes to English football because its clear that they're not being implemented for the right reasons. We've already seen the game basically ruined by money. The leagues are uncompetitive and ordinary people are often priced out. There has been huge benefits of the rampant commercialisation of course, but it feels like suggested change are made entirely with the view of making rich people richer without giving a fuck about supporters both here and worldwide. Of course, the horse bolted long ago but it's still a particular sore point to most about how the modern game is so sanitised. English football fans are petrified of American influence. This has been exasperated by the Super league debacle and this 'big six' none sense. Its not suprising that suggestions from an American billionaire are met with vitriol, even if it is unfair. Also, Boehly really hasnt helped himself. He's been here two minutes and been a part of English football for less than 10 games but he's already saying we should change the entire format of the league. It smacks of arrogance like. Fair enough, make points about the commercial side, but changing the format of the competition itself? Come on, at least get settled in first. You cant be making shouts like that until you've at least got your feet under the table even if they are good ideas, which his certainly wasnt. Football needs change. The leagues are uncompetitive. The financial disparity is too much and its ridiculously unfair. I'm all for innovation and change but is it going to come from a billionaire only interested in solidifying his club at the top, increasing revenue for his club and making his club more profitable? Doubtful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Just now, Froggy said: 5 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Introduce a relegation play-off for teams finishing 15th-18th and suddenly there's a layer of hope to those at the bottom and jeopardy to those going nowhere. It would make for a far more interesting end to the season and one which is a lot more sensitive to change. Stop it. What's so wildly unacceptable about this idea, though? Play-offs are hardly incompatible; we've had them for decades. And, maybe even more importantly, there was a time where we didn't have them. They're an indisputable good in the Football League. Therefore a positive change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
healthyaddiction Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: What's so wildly unacceptable about this idea, though? Play-offs are hardly incompatible; we've had them for decades. And, maybe even more importantly, there was a time where we didn't have them. They're an indisputable good in the Football League. Therefore a positive change. Am I reading this wrong or would this not mean 5 teams being relegated? 19th + 20th along with the three that lost in the playoffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 minute ago, healthyaddiction said: Am I reading this wrong or would this not mean 5 teams being relegated? 19th + 20th along with the three that lost in the playoffs. Nah I'm saying 19th and 20th go down automatically; 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th battle it out to avoid being the third (and final) relegation club. Basically a bit like a mirror image of the top of the Championship. I just think having more teams 'in the mix' - more teams trying desperately to keep their heads above water/more teams with a realistic chance of getting their heads above water - would fundamentally mean a greater level/amount of competition. And that's a good thing. I could be wrong; there could be a reason why it wouldn't work (for instance, a promoted club might 'settle' for a relegation play-off position, knowing they're unlikely to finish higher than 15th). I totally subscribe to "stop trying to ruin the game," I just don't think we should be averse to change, just because stuff like VAR turned out a bag of shite. The game can't just sit in stasis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 How about the league winners have to play the bottom place team in a one off game, and they swap places if the bottom team win? Every league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Yorkie said: What's so wildly unacceptable about this idea, though? Play-offs are hardly incompatible; we've had them for decades. And, maybe even more importantly, there was a time where we didn't have them. They're an indisputable good in the Football League. Therefore a positive change. For me it's a war of attrition. Yes, you might say 'what's so wrong about this one thing?' and justify it in reasonable ways, but then over time lots of small changes result in the game being unrecognisable to the one we love. For me unless it's an obvious, universally accepted improvement, leave well alone. The league format we have is barely in need of improvement, let alone broken. Edited September 14, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) A 15th - 18th team playoff is never going to happen as it envokes so much more risk for PL clubs. If clubs are able to finish 15th and still very realistically able to go down, that makes everyone outside the top 6 more likely to be relegated and suffer the economic consequences. Clubs would instantly lose value meaning the PL would lose value. Never in a million years going to happen, especially considering any change is likely to be voted on by member clubs too? In actual, good for the sport football terms, I do think finishing 15th and going down is harsh in a 20 team league. I'd be all for a 17th/18th placed team playoff though. Maybe even a 16th-19th tournament. Certainly one for European places. Still all unrealistic though. They want a closed shop with less risk regardless of entertainment value and sporting integrity. Edited September 14, 2022 by Doctor Zaius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likelylad Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 How about 4th,5th & 6th place battle it out for the final Champions League place? I'm sure that would go down a treat in the corridors of Stamford Bridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: For me it's a war of attrition. Yes, you might say 'what's so wrong about this one thing?' and justify it in reasonable ways, but then over time lots of small changes result in the game being unrecognisable to the one we love. For me unless it's an obvious, universally accepted improvement, leave well alone. The league format we have is barely in need of improvement, let alone broken. I dont know. The same teams qualifying for Europe/CL. City to win 5 out of the last 6 titles. Same teams coming up and going down. Obviously, financial parity is the biggest factor, but I cant help feel the current league format entrenches the position of teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) i'm down to try anything to break up the pointlessness (in general - there are the odd years with exceptions) of the last 6 or so weeks for the majority of the league where 1st-6th is settled, 7th-15th aren't shuffling much, 16th-18th are the only ones really left duking it out, and 19th and 20th are stone dead. obviously every team will tell you they go out to win every game, if not for european placement or survival then pride, but no one here can, with a straight face, look me in the eye and tell me a good chunk of the league doesn't coast into summer every year. Edited September 14, 2022 by thomas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Most of these play-off ideas do exist in various places around Europe. Trying to understand how the Belgian league works gives me a headache. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Would genuinely be in favour of a blanket ban on Americans participating in the sport in any other capacity than watching. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Likelylad said: How about 4th,5th & 6th place battle it out for the final Champions League place? I'm sure that would go down a treat in the corridors of Stamford Bridge. 4th-9th into the playoffs with 4th & 5th going through to the "semis" and having home advantage 6th v 9th 7th v 8th Playoff Final at Wembo. Edited September 14, 2022 by Sima Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 what in the Prem has been so bad that you want all these convuluted playoff systems all of a sudden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 @Doctor Zaius is absolutely right in that I know my idea re 15th-18th thing would never happen, I just think it would be interesting and am making a wider point about not resisting ideas for change out of hands. But yeah turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas. European play-offs would be great but, again, like you say, no chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 40 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Nah I'm saying 19th and 20th go down automatically; 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th battle it out to avoid being the third (and final) relegation club. Basically a bit like a mirror image of the top of the Championship. So the losers of the semis would play in the final, and the losers of the final get relegated? It would make each game like a final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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