Do we need major signings?

[ohmelads]

We took that chance in August and look where it got us, we began the season with 6 senior defenders and now we're fielding untried kids. It's not a chance we can afford to take again in my book.

 

Three and a half months has left our defence in tatters. This season doesn't end until May.

 

Players on free contracts usually command higher fees and wages because there is a glut of clubs negotiating for them. Can you imagine Ballack's bank account after his move to Chelsea. Yet if you lay your money on the table and bid for them in January you are competing with far fewer clubs and in some cases you can even steal a march on your rivals. I would hazard a guess that there are players we can poach now who we couldn't poach in summer.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Agree, however my original point was:

 

January 2007 Neill + Distin = 6-8 million

Summer 2007 Neill + Distin = zip

 

My understanding of it is that players on pre-contract agreements usually command a hefty signing on fee and hefty wages because they have the pick of quite a few clubs. Liverpool and others would be after Neill and Distin would also have quite a few suitors.

 

There's also the possibility, of course, that somebody else snaps them up in the last few days of January leaving us with nothing once again.

 

Thats the chance you take, which is why some of the biggest deals dont happen until the end of the window. If Liverpool wanted Neill his advisors would know, and all he would have to do is spurn any other offers that come his way until the summer.

 

Players like Distin and Neill would command a hefty signing on fe even if a transfer fee was paid. Do you think that because we give Madrid 17 mil for Owen he dodnt have a cut?

 

I would rather wait for the summer to make long term purchases is all i'm saying as i dont think there is anyone out there at the moment which we could buy and say we've had value for money

 

Players will have a much bigger bargaining chip when they are actually free.

 

Again i agree, and this is where we will find ourselves in a strong position. We are probably the only team that these players could get the wages they want at, and also be guaranteed first team football

 

and the extra wages they could command over the long term plus the signing on fee would probably end up more than what we could get them on now.

 

Dont want this to turn into another quotastic thread, however, most clubs have wage structures they are unwilling to break. Ours is higher, probably 5th highest in the premiership. If say Neill wanted 40, 000 a week now, then a team like portsmouth or Spurs would probably be able to buy him for 4mil + wages. However if we wait till the summer we give him 45-50 000 a week which only we would be able to do.

 

40 000 compared to 50 000 a week = 10 000 difference

3 years (156 weeks) x 10 000 = 1.56mil, which would be a saving of 2.44 million on the transfer fee

 

Obviously fees are approximations but hopefully you see my point

[Cajun]

Agree, however my original point was:

 

January 2007 Neill + Distin = 6-8 million

Summer 2007 Neill + Distin = zip

 

My understanding of it is that players on pre-contract agreements usually command a hefty signing on fee and hefty wages because they have the pick of quite a few clubs. Liverpool and others would be after Neill and Distin would also have quite a few suitors.

 

There's also the possibility, of course, that somebody else snaps them up in the last few days of January leaving us with nothing once again.

 

Thats the chance you take, which is why some of the biggest deals dont happen until the end of the window. If Liverpool wanted Neill his advisors would know, and all he would have to do is spurn any other offers that come his way until the summer.

 

Players like Distin and Neill would command a hefty signing on fe even if a transfer fee was paid. Do you think that because we give Madrid 17 mil for Owen he dodnt have a cut?

 

I would rather wait for the summer to make long term purchases is all i'm saying as i dont think there is anyone out there at the moment which we could buy and say we've had value for money

 

Players will have a much bigger bargaining chip when they are actually free.

 

Again i agree, and this is where we will find ourselves in a strong position. We are probably the only team that these players could get the wages they want at, and also be guaranteed first team football

 

and the extra wages they could command over the long term plus the signing on fee would probably end up more than what we could get them on now.

 

Dont want this to turn into another quotastic thread, however, most clubs have wage structures they are unwilling to break. Ours is higher, probably 5th highest in the premiership. If say Neill wanted 40, 000 a week now, then a team like portsmouth or Spurs would probably be able to buy him for 4mil + wages. However if we wait till the summer we give him 45-50 000 a week which only we would be able to do.

 

40 000 compared to 50 000 a week = 10 000 difference

3 years (156 weeks) x 10 000 = 1.56mil, which would be a saving of 2.44 million on the transfer fee

 

Obviously fees are approximations but hopefully you see my point

 

I see your point but I think the difference would be a lot bigger and the signing on fee would probably not be far off the transfer fee we would have to pay now!

[ohmelads]

Dont want this to turn into another quotastic thread, however, most clubs have wage structures they are unwilling to break. Ours is higher, probably 5th highest in the premiership. If say Neill wanted 40, 000 a week now, then a team like portsmouth or Spurs would probably be able to buy him for 4mil + wages. However if we wait till the summer we give him 45-50 000 a week which only we would be able to do.

 

40 000 compared to 50 000 a week = 10 000 difference

3 years (156 weeks) x 10 000 = 1.56mil, which would be a saving of 2.44 million on the transfer fee

 

Obviously fees are approximations but hopefully you see my point

 

Thing is Blackburn are also looking after their own interests and may decide to cash in on Neill now before he walks away for nothing. If we sit around waiting for summer there's a very high chance someone will buy these players this month, leaving us empty handed.

 

If he is available in summer he'll be expecting a signing on fee and his agent will play clubs off against each other. My guess is that would be a six figure sum, not far off what we'd pay to buy him now.

 

In August we played a game of brinkmanship and lost spectacularly, I don't see this month as the time for pissing about and I would hope we get our targets signed up this time.

[BottledDog]

They have know for a long time we need to strengthen, Roeder has said he has told Fred who he would like, what gets to us is the length of time it seems to take before any action is taken over a transfer. This is a short transfer window and time cannot be wasted dithering about like we did at the start of the season.

I will take panic buying over no buying any day.

 

I will reserve my judgement until August 31st 2007. By then i will know more about Roeders ability to construct a good squad.

BTW panic buying = Luque - now that could start a thread!

 

You could say that Roeders only 'proven for the money' signing so far has been a panic buy.

 

/A considerable panic buy it seems now that we know he spent just one frantic hour (after presumably being told of his availability) calling people up to find out about his character, before buying Sibierski. 

[dcmk]

I don't believe this season is a write off by any means but the need for a defender is urgent, and if we're going to strenghten then we should do it properly.

 

Players are a bit more expensive in January but we're going to have to bite the bullet at some point. Sometimes you face more competition for a player in summer because others have thought along the same lines as you and have earmarked more money for the summer window. We can't compete with the biggest clubs anyway but sometimes you can steal a march by putting up the money in January.

 

Also, as Optimistic Nut has pointed out, a player bought in January has time to settle with his teammates, ready for the new season (such as Evra for Man Utd).

 

I'd like to see us test Depor with a bid for Andrade. They are in a bit of a crisis now, in their last 5 games they have conceded 14 goals and scored 1.

 

Wow sure its the sort of lad you would want here.  after reading that im a lil scared whether a good thing to get him.

 

Hear he is quite rated, admittedately aint seen alot of him but not the typical centre half would expect especially EPL in my eyes anyhoo.

[toontownman]

Obviously we dont need major signings we just need signings that work.

 

Loan options really arent that bad if they are good enough. Certainly the CB we need to bring in permenantly has to be the right man, a leader, organiser and experienced. Hard to find, so why waste money on Distin or Upson to not live up to the hype.

 

The problem is we need to be planning for both really or as is most likely to happen, we will stick to our targets until the end of the month, at which stage realising we cant get them there is no one left decent enough to loan.

 

Eternal optimist, I do trust Roeder to get in the players we need, but i have been hurt before..

[BottledDog]

Obviously we dont need major signings we just need signings that work.

 

Loan options really arent that bad if they are good enough. Certainly the CB we need to bring in permenantly has to be the right man, a leader, organiser and experienced. Hard to find, so why waste money on Distin or Upson to not live up to the hype.

 

The problem is we need to be planning for both really or as is most likely to happen, we will stick to our targets until the end of the month, at which stage realising we cant get them there is no one left decent enough to loan.

 

Eternal optimist, I do trust Roeder to get in the players we need, but i have been hurt before..

 

I really hope he does get it right in this period, but I don't quite understand how he has earned your trust (and others faith) considering the signings he made at West Ham, or his efforts before and during the last transfer window.

 

Fingers crossed like, but if you talk about getting your fingers burnt in the past, maybe setting your sights a little lower might not be a bad idea.

 

 

/then when Ronaldinho does actually pop up we'll all be laughing. bluebiggrin.gif

[ohmelads]

I don't believe this season is a write off by any means but the need for a defender is urgent, and if we're going to strenghten then we should do it properly.

 

Players are a bit more expensive in January but we're going to have to bite the bullet at some point. Sometimes you face more competition for a player in summer because others have thought along the same lines as you and have earmarked more money for the summer window. We can't compete with the biggest clubs anyway but sometimes you can steal a march by putting up the money in January.

 

Also, as Optimistic Nut has pointed out, a player bought in January has time to settle with his teammates, ready for the new season (such as Evra for Man Utd).

 

I'd like to see us test Depor with a bid for Andrade. They are in a bit of a crisis now, in their last 5 games they have conceded 14 goals and scored 1.

 

Wow sure its the sort of lad you would want here.  after reading that im a lil scared whether a good thing to get him.

 

Hear he is quite rated, admittedately aint seen alot of him but not the typical centre half would expect especially EPL in my eyes anyhoo.

 

Though not generally injury prone, he's been injured during all but the last of those games. Although that didn't stop them getting hammered 4-0 by Sevilla. He's a rock of a defender, a leader and he can play the ball out of defence, and at 28 a good age in terms of experience. He's just one suggestion and he wouldn't be cheap but I believe he's the type of defender we need right now.

[merlin]

To be honest, the best looking option for NUFC right now is to take a gamble on 3 players - Distin, Neill and Upson.I know Neill/Distin are free agents in summer, but LFC are after Neill, and it is better for us to test Blackburn with a bid right now, as we won't have a chance in summer.

These guys sre not the best possible players in their positions, but are capable of filling other positions, i.e Neill can play at CB as he proved in the WC, so would be able to cover in the event of injuries. I believe

Distin can also slot in at LB, so that also would help out.

If Viduka could be signed for a minimal fee(WITHOUT any sort of trade involving Milner) I would go for him too, as I believe he would take the weight off Martins, and be  a great target for Milner's crosses - he is very good at holding the ball too.

These players would, I believe, give us a real chance of at least qualifying for the UEFA, and maybe better

in terms of siverware provided we can get past Brum.

 

I reckon we could do the lot for for around 10m, and recoup some by selling Emre to Bayern. probably a total outlay of 6m.

[Guest Li3nZ]

We've only spent about 100million in the past 6 years on shit players, another 5 million on a shit player in January won't make a difference.

[Northern Monkey]

I get up every morning probably like a lot of you on this board, switch teletext 338 on to see what the latest word is from the papers. It dosnt really matter who we get linked with i am just always excited to se Newcastles name within a story.

 

After reading Roeders quotes today about bringing players in for the sake of it on long contracts and then not wanting them, i believe he is going about this transfer window in the right manner. We need cover in defence and another striker, but who is availible at a decent price, and which clubs would be willing to sell. I like Distin and think he would be a good addition, however why pay 3-5 million for him now when you can get him for nothing in the summer. The same principle goes for Sidwell, Viduka, Barton and probably a whole host of others. Roeder is very careful, and very sensible with money, and for this i am grateful. If i was Roeder i would get them on pre-contract agreements, whereby they come to us in the summer, and we pay no fee.

 

When all our squad is fit, we have a decent starting 11 that would get us a top 8 premiership position, easily, and Roeder knows this. What can he achieve spending 15 million in this transfer window, any decent player will be cup tied in europe, would cost more know than they would have in the summer, and we still wouldnt qualify for europe for next year. Roeder knows he is a strong back line away from competing with the top 4, and this is an issue better addressed in the summer as opposed to January

 

Whatever Roeder/Shepherd did wrong in the summer, they shouldn't try and make a mense in this transfer window, they will pay inflated prices, which wont make a hell of a difference to our season know anyway.

 

I have faith in Roeder and urge fans not to be too dissapointed if little money is spent during this window!

 

Cover? No. We need actual first team defenders. preferably 3, at a minimum 2.

 

The squad we have now is not a top 8 one.