Comparison of Managers. Where does Glenn Roeder stand?

[NE5]

 

 

 

Moore, Bramble, Ramage, Carr and Babayaro

 

 

I rest my case

 

Ameobi and Luque.

 

I rest my case.

 

 

[Newcastle Fan]

ok maybe we needed a striker

 

but did we need a 10 million striker?/and no defenders?

 

btw,what case? 

[Howaythelads]

Luque isn't a striker.

[Guest Zenith]

Luque isn't a striker.

 

He isn't very good, either.

 

I was hoping Roeder could have played him more here & there to increase re-sale value.

[Dinho lad]

We need strikers and defenders. It dosen't matter which one we buy first.... as long as we get some before the window shuts!

 

I just hope the buggers in charge realise that.

[1878]

Moyes is shit, not a hit

[Delima]

Moyes is shit, not a hit

 

Why?

[garth]

For me Roeder comes at the bottom of the pile, when it comes to the big games he's fucking clueless the only reason he did so well against Manure was the team picked itself, when he has a totally full squad he just doesn't have the balls to drop one or two players and doesn't know how to manage players. Fact!.

[1878]

Moyes is shit, not a hit

 

Why?

 

His tactics are the worst of any manager in the league. It took him until 80mins today to make a sub despite being 3-0 down at half time to Blackburn reserves. His style of football is crap and he never has a plan B.

 

He's got no ambition or nous and will never take us further than being a midtable team.

[Howaythelads]

Moyes is shit, not a hit

 

Why?

 

His tactics are the worst of any manager in the league. It took him until 80mins today to make a sub despite being 3-0 down at half time to Blackburn reserves. His style of football is crap and he never has a plan B.

 

He's got no ambition or nous and will never take us further than being a midtable team.

 

Can't imagine why anybody gives a shit, tbh.

[1878]

Moyes is shit, not a hit

 

Why?

 

His tactics are the worst of any manager in the league. It took him until 80mins today to make a sub despite being 3-0 down at half time to Blackburn reserves. His style of football is crap and he never has a plan B.

 

He's got no ambition or nous and will never take us further than being a midtable team.

 

Can't imagine why anybody gives a shit, tbh.

 

Delima does since he asked, tbh.

[merlin]

Last season when Roeder did well he had no pressure on him and played people in the positions in which they were comfortable, he hasn't done that this season, partly due to injuries, partly due to him and his blue eyed boys.  He has players who will get a game regardless of form, they are straight in the team when fit.

 

He bought Duff for a bargain but we didn't need him in the first place as we have plenty of cover on the left, at least plenty who would have played at least as well as Duff has done.

 

That £5 million could have been spent on areas of the team that needed the money spending on it more.  N'Zogbia has not been a anything like the player he was last season, my guess is that it's down to us buying a player like Duff and that's probably knocked the stuffing out of N'Zogbia because his confidence seems to have gone.

 

This could just be part of the learning process for him, I doubt it.  He comes across as a very moody/deep person, somebody who needs to feel wanted, a bit like Ginola and Robert, when they were confident, they were as good as anybody, when they seemed to be in a rut they were passengers during games.  I think Roeder has weakened our teams attacking ability by losing the Zog that ripped teams apart last season and didn't fear any midfielder or defender, he just ran at them and usually got in a shot or pass.

 

I’ve heard plenty of people saying Luque hasn’t got heart, that’s total bollocks, he’s got a lot in common with the flair French players we’ve had at the club, he needs to play with confidence but has never been able to do so.  Firstly he had a terrible injury then has never been given a run of games and for me that’s crap because we’ve invested £9.5 million and never given him a chance, we’re robbing ourselves because we’ll be at least £6 million down if we sell him, I think we’ll be lucky to get £3 million for him if we manage to off-load him and he’ll probably go on to become a good player again if given the chance.  The daft thing is that we’re playing untried kids when we’ve got him at the club, we’re not playing 1 or 2 kids, we’re playing far too many for far too long because of our injuries so the kids have nowhere to hide during a game and they’ll pay for it, they’ll lose all confidence if things go to badly for them, we could see that happening yesterday to Pattison who has done OK when coming into an experienced team.

 

Roeder has failed in the use of the last transfer window although not totally, I'll give him credit for Martins, without him we'd be totally knackered and I'll give him credit for Sibierski who has done much better than I expected but I don't think he's as good as some people think, for a free transfer he's done well.  Duff is a good player who hasn't performed and wasn't needed, Rossi coming here was a joke, so was Bernard and to a certain extent, so was Pav because we released Caig and then replaced him with an old man in football terms, keepers might not have to run around all day but they need reflexes which do slow with age.

 

Roeder had a hard job taking over from Souness, it was going to be hard for anybody but that's no excuse for what he does with transfer windows, he's been given money and done with it what he's wanted, as far as we know.

 

I gave Roeder credit for not using injuries as an excuse last week, within a week he’s tried it in a roundabout sort of way when commenting on other managers moaning about the injuries they have.

 

Roeder seems a nice person but he also appears to lack backbone and comes across to me as being very indecisive which is dangerous in a fast moving game, he appears to not know who to bring off the bench and when to do it.  He also tries to explain his reason for his indecision as him wanting to get things right all of the time, sorry Glenn, you need to act quickly in a game that’s played at the pace of the Premiership or it’ll pass you by and it does.  I don’t think Roeder is a natural manager so has to think things out for far too long, he can’t make decisions naturally and that is a massive problem for a manager in a 90 minute game that’s played at pace, games change within a blink of an eye.

 

He's better than Souness, nobody could really say that he isn't.  I would say that it's close between the two on ability, Roeder gets the nod for being a nicer person, somebody you could probably see as a friend, that could also be a part of his failings, sometimes you have to be a bastard to people who work for you so that you can get the best out of them, you dangle the carrot and then use the stick if the carrot fails to bring about the right response.  I think Roeder will do this with some players but not with others, he should treat them all the same.

 

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

[Guest Knightrider]

Never really rated Moyes myself who is all about graft and playing to the strengths of one or two players and  that only ever gets you so far and is the sign of a manager unable to find an alternative or a balance. It isn't surprising that in the 5 or so years he's been in charge Everton haven't really changed and are still a mediocre side who rely on one or two individuals. When that breaks down they are clueless. When they finished 4th it said a great deal about just how average the Premiership had become.

[bulivye]

Last season when Roeder did well he had no pressure on him and played people in the positions in which they were comfortable, he hasn't done that this season, partly due to injuries, partly due to him and his blue eyed boys.  He has players who will get a game regardless of form, they are straight in the team when fit.

 

He bought Duff for a bargain but we didn't need him in the first place as we have plenty of cover on the left, at least plenty who would have played at least as well as Duff has done.

 

That £5 million could have been spent on areas of the team that needed the money spending on it more.  N'Zogbia has not been a anything like the player he was last season, my guess is that it's down to us buying a player like Duff and that's probably knocked the stuffing out of N'Zogbia because his confidence seems to have gone.

 

This could just be part of the learning process for him, I doubt it.  He comes across as a very moody/deep person, somebody who needs to feel wanted, a bit like Ginola and Robert, when they were confident, they were as good as anybody, when they seemed to be in a rut they were passengers during games.  I think Roeder has weakened our teams attacking ability by losing the Zog that ripped teams apart last season and didn't fear any midfielder or defender, he just ran at them and usually got in a shot or pass.

 

I’ve heard plenty of people saying Luque hasn’t got heart, that’s total bollocks, he’s got a lot in common with the flair French players we’ve had at the club, he needs to play with confidence but has never been able to do so.  Firstly he had a terrible injury then has never been given a run of games and for me that’s crap because we’ve invested £9.5 million and never given him a chance, we’re robbing ourselves because we’ll be at least £6 million down if we sell him, I think we’ll be lucky to get £3 million for him if we manage to off-load him and he’ll probably go on to become a good player again if given the chance.  The daft thing is that we’re playing untried kids when we’ve got him at the club, we’re not playing 1 or 2 kids, we’re playing far too many for far too long because of our injuries so the kids have nowhere to hide during a game and they’ll pay for it, they’ll lose all confidence if things go to badly for them, we could see that happening yesterday to Pattison who has done OK when coming into an experienced team.

 

Roeder has failed in the use of the last transfer window although not totally, I'll give him credit for Martins, without him we'd be totally knackered and I'll give him credit for Sibierski who has done much better than I expected but I don't think he's as good as some people think, for a free transfer he's done well.  Duff is a good player who hasn't performed and wasn't needed, Rossi coming here was a joke, so was Bernard and to a certain extent, so was Pav because we released Caig and then replaced him with an old man in football terms, keepers might not have to run around all day but they need reflexes which do slow with age.

 

Roeder had a hard job taking over from Souness, it was going to be hard for anybody but that's no excuse for what he does with transfer windows, he's been given money and done with it what he's wanted, as far as we know.

 

I gave Roeder credit for not using injuries as an excuse last week, within a week he’s tried it in a roundabout sort of way when commenting on other managers moaning about the injuries they have.

 

Roeder seems a nice person but he also appears to lack backbone and comes across to me as being very indecisive which is dangerous in a fast moving game, he appears to not know who to bring off the bench and when to do it.  He also tries to explain his reason for his indecision as him wanting to get things right all of the time, sorry Glenn, you need to act quickly in a game that’s played at the pace of the Premiership or it’ll pass you by and it does.  I don’t think Roeder is a natural manager so has to think things out for far too long, he can’t make decisions naturally and that is a massive problem for a manager in a 90 minute game that’s played at pace, games change within a blink of an eye.

 

He's better than Souness, nobody could really say that he isn't.  I would say that it's close between the two on ability, Roeder gets the nod for being a nicer person, somebody you could probably see as a friend, that could also be a part of his failings, sometimes you have to be a bastard to people who work for you so that you can get the best out of them, you dangle the carrot and then use the stick if the carrot fails to bring about the right response.  I think Roeder will do this with some players but not with others, he should treat them all the same.

 

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

 

wasn't zoggy best friends with boumsong as well?  perhaps having his "big brother" gone has sent him into a bit of a funk, especially if he's as moody as you said.

[Rebellious]

First of all,he had at least 15 million to rebulid the squad,he couldve signed decent good defender but decided to waste it on Duff and Martins,i like Oba and he will do nothing but good for our team,but we couldve got a cheaper strikers who can score more often for less the 10 million

Very shortsighted. Sure we probobly could have bought a cheaper striker but I don't think we could have bought a cheaper striker that is proven in the CL, is only 22 and still has his best days in front of him. Oba is not the complete player right now but in a few years he will be. He may not fire us into Europe on his own now but when wehave built up the rest of the squad in a few years I'm sure we will be very thankful we have signed him.

 

As for Duff I have no doubts he will come good. Sure he has lacked form and been unlucky recently with injuries but when he does get back i'm sure he will give us a massive boost.

 

i know martins is a fantastic talent

 

but we needed defenders,we couldve spent those 10 million on buying one or two decent defenders,buying defender was our priorty and as much as i like Martins,i would've always had one or two defenders over him..

 

Duff was a good player,but lets face it he's been shite since day one here,but i am hoping he comes good

 

but overall,15 million on a striker and a winger,that left us  suffering because of our poor defenders,and now all the good solid defenders have moved,our only hope is that we can somehow snatch a good defender before the end of the january transfer window,and that looks unlikly tbh..

 

Shearer had retired, we were left with only Owen and Ameobi. Owen was injured and you're saying we needed defenders ahead of strikers. Incredible.

 

My thoughts exactly. How anyone can be so stupid so say we needed a defender more than a striker is beyond me.  Our defense at the time was far from perfect but we had players.  A world class defense with no strikers would get you relegated.

[Elma]

To be honest, there's a lot in that original post I would disagree with. Roeder has pleasantly surprised me. I am a big fan of his as he was club captain when I was a kid, and I'd regularly see him up at Benwell (my older brother played for the youth and reserve teams and I was up there every week moreorless).

 

I wished him well upon getting the job, but always felt that he wouldn't have the ability to deliver. After a year, I am very pleased with how things have gone, and pleased that I am being proved wrong (IMO). Yes, there has a been a blip. Yes, he has made mistakes. However, on the whole I think he has been a welcome change and he is starting to move the club in the right direction. We needed a manager with the club at heart, who would take time to get things right right through the club - I think we now have that. Some of the performances and results have been obtained with a skeleton team, which has collectively played better than the ability of the individuals therein. The team that was missing on Sunday would have beaten the team we fielded hands down, yet we still got a draw and arguably could and should have won.

 

Is he the right man to take us to the next level? Perhaps not. However, I do think he is the right man for us at the moment - someone to settle things down, get confidence back, bring on some of the academy lads (who he knows so well) and do it all without spending a great deal of money. The club coffers aren't a bottomless pit. Money has been squandered in the past. Part of the 15 million spent in the summer was offset by sales. With that in mind, I think a cautious approach is commendable. Lets get the right players at the right prices, whenever that may be. If we are still midtable this time next year whilst still bringing through the academy lads and steadily building up the squad then that's fine by me.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

So, what EXACTLY can we expect from Glenn Roeder? He is not that young (51) anymore. What does his past track record tell us?

 

Premiership is a dog eat dog world. It is an elite club and rightly so. From the list below, the vast majority of the managers are about the same age as Roeder or younger. The vast majority of them have impressive CV, the vast majority of them have done well in premiership.

 

How does Roeder compare to them? Where does Reoder stand compared to other managers? What exactly does Roeder do that is better than other managers?

 

Roeder and pundits alike always point to his academy connection, but how much credit can be trully attributed to him? Wenger, O'Neill, Allardyce, Pardew, Mourinho, Moyes, Benitez, Pearce, Ferguson, Redknapp, Jol, Curbishley all have significantly better youth grooming record. (Southgate + Boothroyd too new to judge, Coppell Jewell Warnock I ain't know a lot about their record in this area).

 

Squad builder? Wenger, O'Neill, Hughes, Allardyce, Pardew, Moyes, Coleman, Pearce, Ferguson, Redknapp, Coppell, Jol, Boothroyd, Warnock and Curbishely have proven to be good squad builder under limited budget. Mourinho has shown that he can manage big. Benitez has done well in big money transfer. Southgate has shown he knows how to address his squad weakness, though it remains doubtful if he can get the max out of his players. What has Roeder done? Poor record in West Ham, poor record in Newcastle. Martins is a hit, Sibierski a so so player who scores the odd goal, Rossi a wasted talent, Bernard a failure, several positions not reinforced.

 

It seems like the only few advantages Roeder has are that, he is better than Graeme Souness , and his is not as inexperienced as Southgate or Pearce.

 

Stuart Pearce, an inexperienced, overactive showman manager, whom many expect him to succeed, and equally many expecting him to fail, has yet to get his club relegated. And in fact his team is sitting nicely above us now.

 

Gareth Southage, an absolute rookie manager, has manage to get his team to only 2 points behind us.

 

What, apart from the good boy image and his last year good run, has warrant him a place as Toon manager?

 

As pointed out by .com, his this year record with Newcastle is identical with the one Souness had (which led him to be sacked). Roeder has Martins, Taylor, Duff. Souness had Luque, Boumsong, Bramble.

 

Had Souness actually done better than Roeder in Newcastle? (Even with his expensive misfits) Roeder has injury crisis but Souness had one too.

 

How much patience can we afford to Roeder? How much longer can the "Honest Hardworking Illness Academy" image shelter Roeder from the fans' wrath?

 

I wish Roeder every luck, but does he deserve this job?

 

-------------

 

Arsene Wenger

Record speaks for himself. World class manager.

 

Martin O'Neill

Wycombe Wanderers - HIT

Leicester City - HIT

Celtic - HIT

Aston Villa

 

Mark Hughes

Wales - HIT

Blackburn - HIT

 

Sam Allardyce

Limerick - HIT

Blackpool - HIT

Notts County - HIT

Bolton - HIT

 

Alan Pardew

Reading - HIT

West Ham - Half HIT

 

Jose Mourinho

Record speaks for himself. World class manager.

 

David Moyes

Preston North End - HIT

Everton - HIT

 

Chris Coleman

Fulham - HIT

 

Rafael Benitez

Real Valladolid - MISS

CA Osasuna

CF Extremadura - HIT

CD Tenerife - HIT

Valencia - HIT

Liverpool - HIT

 

Stuart Pearce

Manchester City - Ok

 

Alex Ferguson

Record speaks for himself. World class manager.

 

Gareth Southgate

Rookie

 

Glenn Roeder

Gillingham - Ok

Watford - Ok

West Ham - Miss

 

Harry Redknapp

Bournemouth - HIT

West Ham - HIT

Portsmouth - HIT

Southampton - MISS

 

Steve Coppell

Crystal Palace - HIT

Man City - MISS

Brentford - HIT

Brighton & Hove Albion - MISS

Reading - HIT

 

Neil Warnock

No comment.

 

Martin Jol

ADO Den Haag - HIT

Scheveningen - HIT

Roda JC - HIT

RKC Waalwijk - HIT

Tottenham - Building a good team while making loads in transfer - HIT

 

Aidy Boothroyd

Guide Watford into Premiership in his first ever season as manager - HIT

Make Watford a fighting team that play well in every match (despite losing and drawing a lot) in Premiership - HIT

 

Alan Curbishley

Gradually guard Chalrton to Premiership - HIT

West Ham -

 

Paul Jewell

Bradford - HIT

Sheffield Wednesday - MISS

Wigan - HIT

 

so basically unless you get your team relegated, you're a 'HIT'

 

I think you missed a lot of S's from the post

[Guest FlapjackJoe]

Last season when Roeder did well he had no pressure on him and played people in the positions in which they were comfortable, he hasn't done that this season, partly due to injuries, partly due to him and his blue eyed boys.  He has players who will get a game regardless of form, they are straight in the team when fit.

 

He bought Duff for a bargain but we didn't need him in the first place as we have plenty of cover on the left, at least plenty who would have played at least as well as Duff has done.

 

That £5 million could have been spent on areas of the team that needed the money spending on it more.  N'Zogbia has not been a anything like the player he was last season, my guess is that it's down to us buying a player like Duff and that's probably knocked the stuffing out of N'Zogbia because his confidence seems to have gone.

 

This could just be part of the learning process for him, I doubt it.  He comes across as a very moody/deep person, somebody who needs to feel wanted, a bit like Ginola and Robert, when they were confident, they were as good as anybody, when they seemed to be in a rut they were passengers during games.  I think Roeder has weakened our teams attacking ability by losing the Zog that ripped teams apart last season and didn't fear any midfielder or defender, he just ran at them and usually got in a shot or pass.

 

I’ve heard plenty of people saying Luque hasn’t got heart, that’s total bollocks, he’s got a lot in common with the flair French players we’ve had at the club, he needs to play with confidence but has never been able to do so.  Firstly he had a terrible injury then has never been given a run of games and for me that’s crap because we’ve invested £9.5 million and never given him a chance, we’re robbing ourselves because we’ll be at least £6 million down if we sell him, I think we’ll be lucky to get £3 million for him if we manage to off-load him and he’ll probably go on to become a good player again if given the chance.  The daft thing is that we’re playing untried kids when we’ve got him at the club, we’re not playing 1 or 2 kids, we’re playing far too many for far too long because of our injuries so the kids have nowhere to hide during a game and they’ll pay for it, they’ll lose all confidence if things go to badly for them, we could see that happening yesterday to Pattison who has done OK when coming into an experienced team.

 

Roeder has failed in the use of the last transfer window although not totally, I'll give him credit for Martins, without him we'd be totally knackered and I'll give him credit for Sibierski who has done much better than I expected but I don't think he's as good as some people think, for a free transfer he's done well.  Duff is a good player who hasn't performed and wasn't needed, Rossi coming here was a joke, so was Bernard and to a certain extent, so was Pav because we released Caig and then replaced him with an old man in football terms, keepers might not have to run around all day but they need reflexes which do slow with age.

 

Roeder had a hard job taking over from Souness, it was going to be hard for anybody but that's no excuse for what he does with transfer windows, he's been given money and done with it what he's wanted, as far as we know.

 

I gave Roeder credit for not using injuries as an excuse last week, within a week he’s tried it in a roundabout sort of way when commenting on other managers moaning about the injuries they have.

 

Roeder seems a nice person but he also appears to lack backbone and comes across to me as being very indecisive which is dangerous in a fast moving game, he appears to not know who to bring off the bench and when to do it.  He also tries to explain his reason for his indecision as him wanting to get things right all of the time, sorry Glenn, you need to act quickly in a game that’s played at the pace of the Premiership or it’ll pass you by and it does.  I don’t think Roeder is a natural manager so has to think things out for far too long, he can’t make decisions naturally and that is a massive problem for a manager in a 90 minute game that’s played at pace, games change within a blink of an eye.

 

He's better than Souness, nobody could really say that he isn't.  I would say that it's close between the two on ability, Roeder gets the nod for being a nicer person, somebody you could probably see as a friend, that could also be a part of his failings, sometimes you have to be a bastard to people who work for you so that you can get the best out of them, you dangle the carrot and then use the stick if the carrot fails to bring about the right response.  I think Roeder will do this with some players but not with others, he should treat them all the same.

 

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

 

wasn't zoggy best friends with boumsong as well?  perhaps having his "big brother" gone has sent him into a bit of a funk, especially if he's as moody as you said.

 

I thought his big buddy was good ole Amady...  I miss him.  Still the worst player in the Premiership ever.    bluewink.gif

 

Anyway, I also think Roeder has done a great job in "stabilising" the club.  For the first time in a very long time, there seems to be a terrific team spirit.  Maybe that's partially due to the massive amount of injuries, and youngsters coming through giving their all.  Just the general style of play is far more attacking than anything we've ever seen under Souness, so that's another plus.

 

Also, we got some (to use Iain Dowie's phrase) bouncebackability.  Iirc, under Souness, we have not once came from behind to draw or win a game.  The latter half of last season, when we were down at the break, I still felt confident that we might pick up points.

 

I don't think Roeder is a manager that can take us to "the next level", i.e. to be pretty much sure of being a Top 6 or 7 team, to qualify for the UEFA Cup every single season, and starting to challenge the Top 4 for a Champions' League spot.  That's what we need from a manager.

 

Having said that, when Souness got the sack (and even now), there's aren't a massive amount of brilliant managers out there.  There's no way any manager of the top 4 teams would join us - or even the teams just below that, like Spurs and Bolton.  And there are no really experienced managers that would be a great appointment beneath that anyway (I still think Martin O'Neill's overrated, so I won't comment on him).  Steve Coppell might come into this category.

 

So, basically, if we were to change Roeder, we'd be looking at a young, inexperienced manager showing lots of talented.  The obvious choice would be Aidy Boothroyd (who I still rate very highly despite Watford's position), or else lower league managers (Bryan Laws did brilliantly at Scunthorpe and has made a terrific start at Wednesday, Paul Simpson's done a great job at Carlisle and Preston, etc.), but they can be very hit and miss.  And Newcastle fans (knowing them) won't be happy with such an appointment.  So then it's down to an established foreign manager - which can very easily turn out disastrously (I really wanted Paul le Guen to come here, dunno if I still want that!).

 

Basically, I don't think there's much better managers out there.  Not unless we become an established European team once more.