St James' Park

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 09:35, TRon said:

 

You're a Newcastle fan, you aren't exactly going to be objective.

 

Take the fan specs off and look at it. It would look more at home at an Industrial park, same as Eldon Square tbh. But that's history now, and also part of being a city centre I guess.

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Rubbish.

 

Also, if you knew me you would never say generalised inaccuracies like that !

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 09:54, Superior Acuña said:

Tbh I’ve heard a fair few other fans like it too. It’s v distinctive with the heavily lopsided stands and glass 

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Lots do, I would have thought a lot more than don't !!

[TRon]

  On 16/10/2024 at 09:54, Superior Acuña said:

Tbh I’ve heard a fair few other fans like it too. It’s v distinctive with the heavily lopsided stands and glass 

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They are football fans as well though, football people tend to like football stadiums.

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:19, TRon said:

 

They are football fans as well though, football people tend to like football stadiums.

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More generalisations that are not necessarily true.

 

Also, we are actually talking about architectural appearance of ONE particular football stadium.

 

[TRon]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:03, TheBrownBottle said:

In all honestly you could stick the San Siro at Gallowgate (still my favourite ground I’ve been to with NUFC) and I’d still think it was a blight on the landscape of the city.

 

Just personal taste  

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Same here, landscapes are a big thing for me too, and I'm not a fan of huge concrete blocks, although as part of a whole city built like that it can look impressive. Just not my thing.

[Kanj]

Non football fans think SJP is fucking brilliant to look at too. It’s not an eye sore whatsoever. 

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:22, TRon said:

 

Same here, landscapes are a big thing for me too, and I'm not a fan of huge concrete blocks, although as part of a whole city built like that it can look impressive. Just not my thing.

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Yep, totally agree.  And that Northumbrian light yellow sandstone that makes up huge swathes of Newcastle city centre is just beautiful.  Those views don’t need a concrete and glass behemoth looming in the background.

 

I’m definitely not advocating a move out of the city centre (it is where the club should be), but to me its presence there is a necessary sacrifice on the city’s aesthetics rather than the ‘cathedral on the hill’ patter

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:26, Kanji said:

Non football fans think SJP is fucking brilliant to look at too. It’s not an eye sore whatsoever. 

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Stephen Fry once summed aesthetics up quite well for me - he said that beautiful buildings look like they’ve been pulled up from the earth instead of plonked on top of it

 

Newcastle’s Georgian city centre looks like it’s been hewn from the earth.  SJP looks like it has been plonked on top of it

[Yorkie]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:29, TheBrownBottle said:

Stephen Fry once summed aesthetics up quite well for me - he said that beautiful buildings look like they’ve been pulled up from the earth instead of plonked on top of it

 

Newcastle’s Georgian city centre looks like it’s been hewn from the earth.  SJP looks like it has been plonked on top of it

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Couldn't agree less with Fry's interpretation tbh.  Architecture is an expression of humanities; good architecture respects nature but it doesn't have to be completely indistinct from it. He must love Hobbiton and Teletubbyland.

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:46, Yorkie said:

 

Couldn't agree less with Fry's interpretation tbh.  Architecture is an expression of humanities; good architecture respects nature but it doesn't have to be completely indistinct from it. He must love Hobbiton and Teletubbyland.

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Haha aye fair enough.  I think architecture can be awe-inspiring and impressive - but beauty is something else altogether.

 

Maybe I’ve been a QS too long - I’ve heard too many architects talking about their ‘vision’ and been irritated by listening to that shite  

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:01, TheBrownBottle said:

Haha aye fair enough.  I think architecture can be awe-inspiring and impressive - but beauty is something else altogether.

 

Maybe I’ve been a QS too long - I’ve heard too many architects talking about their ‘vision’ and been irritated by listening to that shite  

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In my role as manager of Skyscraper City I (and many others) encourage and admire beautiful architecture, old and new!

[TRon]

  On 16/10/2024 at 10:27, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep, totally agree.  And that Northumbrian light yellow sandstone that makes up huge swathes of Newcastle city centre is just beautiful.  Those views don’t need a concrete and glass behemoth looming in the background.

 

I’m definitely not advocating a move out of the city centre (it is where the club should be), but to me its presence there is a necessary sacrifice on the city’s aesthetics rather than the ‘cathedral on the hill’ patter

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This is me as well. I love the old sandstone architecture that makes up old city centre streets like Grey Street and Grainger town. Eldon Square looks like a monstrosity planted into the middle of it, and blocks the views of the old city to make it worse. But it is a personal take, don't expect everyone to agree with it.

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:05, manorpark said:

 

In my role as manager of Skyscraper City I (and many others) encourage and admire beautiful architecture, old and new!

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Excellent

 

I’m cursed with the knowledge of how much sandstone builds cost £/m2, so I understand why they’re not built - usually because my profession will stick its tongue in its cheek and go ‘it’ll cost you’.  When what I really want to say is ‘go for it you mad bastard’

[Stifler]

SJP is a mix really.

It’s great to be able to see the big stand from around the city, and I think the glass atrium is a good design aesthetic from the 90’s-00’s.

 

However the cladding panels are faded, and to be fair the cladding being recessed is a poor choice. On top of that the tunnel under the Milburn Stand, and Leazes stand is dark and dingy.

 

Also, the fact that aside from the glass Antrim, and the bar and club shop on the Gallowgate end, there is no real street level frontage/interaction to the stadium, and in my opinion, that’s a sin.

[TRon]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:05, manorpark said:

 

In my role as manager of Skyscraper City I (and many others) encourage and admire beautiful architecture, old and new!

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Just to be clear, I think skyscrapers can look great if they are done as part of a town or city planning project. Manhattan for example is stunning, or at least it is at night. Just not my thing.

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:09, TRon said:

 

This is me as well. I love the old sandstone architecture that makes up old city centre streets like Grey Street and Grainger town. Eldon Square looks like a monstrosity planted into the middle of it, and blocks the views of the old city to make it worse. But it is a personal take, don't expect everyone to agree with it.

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New Eldon Square is a long standing act of cultural vandalism for which T Dan Smith was never adequately punished.  See also the destruction of the various streets and arcades the corrupt fucker destroyed.

 

Rant owa  

[TheBrownBottle]

For clarity I live in Sydney these days, and the shimmering towers are stunning at night - either in Darling Harbour or the Rocks.  It’s an awesome sight

 

But it is context that counts - Newcastle will never have those shimmering towers.  But it has one of the outstanding city centres in the UK (and fuck yes I’m biased - but it’s also true!).

 

Again, NUFC should be a city centre club. But that involves an element of sacrifice to the city’s aesthetics.

 

Other opinions exist  

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:13, TRon said:

 

Just to be clear, I think skyscrapers can look great if they are done as part of a town or city planning project. Manhattan for example is stunning, or at least it is at night. Just not my thing.

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The "Newcastle Skyscraper City Forum" (despite the title) is not really about skyscrapers. It is about general urban life, developments and architecture.

 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forums/newcastle-metro-area.2258/

 

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by manorpark

[Wallsendmag]

There seems to be a constant stream of new build monstrosities going up in the city centre to satisfy the growing student demand all the time.  

 

As far as aesthetically pleasing buildings in the city centre go SJP is the least of your worries if it's something you're bothered about.

[manorpark]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:14, TheBrownBottle said:

New Eldon Square is a long standing act of cultural vandalism for which T Dan Smith was never adequately punished.  See also the destruction of the various streets and arcades the corrupt fucker destroyed.

 

Rant owa  

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The marvellous Eldon Square Shopping Centre has nothing to do with T Dan Smith. Neither has most of the other stuff you mention.

 

 

 

[manorpark]

Opened 4th March 1976 and saved our City Centre.

[ponsaelius]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:01, TheBrownBottle said:

Haha aye fair enough.  I think architecture can be awe-inspiring and impressive - but beauty is something else altogether.

 

Maybe I’ve been a QS too long - I’ve heard too many architects talking about their ‘vision’ and been irritated by listening to that shite  

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But beauty is not really definable as it will always be a point of subjectivity, despite what the currently in-vogue traditionalist think tanks would have you believe. It's why the attempts to enshrine it into planning legislation have been so ham fisted.

 

I always think good placemaking comes more from building heights/street width, use and quality of the space in between the buildings, the quality of landscaping and the mix of uses - more than it does the type of material used to clad a building or any specific architectural detailing. This is has been the biggest failing in UK cities over last 70 years, moreso than you lot value engineering everything 

[Groundhog63]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:18, TheBrownBottle said:

For clarity I live in Sydney these days, and the shimmering towers are stunning at night - either in Darling Harbour or the Rocks.  It’s an awesome sight

 

But it is context that counts - Newcastle will never have those shimmering towers.  But it has one of the outstanding city centres in the UK (and fuck yes I’m biased - but it’s also true!).

 

Again, NUFC should be a city centre club. But that involves an element of sacrifice to the city’s aesthetics.

 

Other opinions exist  

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Not football stadium related but on the subject of big cities, skyscrapers, the general hustle and bustle and Sydney.

 

MrsG dragged me down to Darling Harbour, passed Jack Black as it happens, for the usual stuff. She's heavily into gardening so, on her list, we ventured into The Chinese Garden of Friendship. Beautiful, little oasis of tranquility. The city disappeared.

[ponsaelius]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:25, manorpark said:

Opened 4th March 1976 and saved our City Centre.

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Cities also have to adapt move with the times. It's easy to look at Eldon Square in hindsight as architectural vandalism (and I'm certainly sympathetic to this viewpoint) but it satiated the type of retail demand that existed at the time and for the next 40 or so years. 

[TheBrownBottle]

  On 16/10/2024 at 11:24, manorpark said:

 

The marvellous Eldon Square Shopping Centre has nothing to do with T Dan Smith. Neither has most of the other stuff you mention.

 

 

 

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Apologies, it is a thing of beauty