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1 minute ago, Pancrate1892 said:

One thing about a single stand like that is that you'd be seriously able to beef up capacity. No media, no corporate, no disability areas, No gaps, all the way up to the sky

You couldn’t do much with the East Stand capacity-wise on its current footprint, unfortunately.  Which is why making it corporate would maximise revenue rather than bums on seats.  

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2 minutes ago, madras said:

Even back in the Hall/Shepherd days they said it was feasible but too expensive. Engineering  has moved on quite a bit  sinve then.

Aye defo. I think we've talked about this before many a time. 

Feasible then, definitely feasible now. 

Like you say engineering on a different level and our owners probably have more juice than hall and shepherd when it comes to interacting with the cunts that matter. 

 

I think with this they just want to do it right, that will obviously take a lot of time

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5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I had the proposed plans in my old office back in Newcastle.  Would have been ludicrously expensive, and it was fraught with risk.

 

Civil engineering is far, far more risk conscious today than it was 25 years ago.  I spend a shitload of my working week in risk workshops.  

Is there any drawings that exist? 

 

 

Edited by Pancrate1892
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If you’re a civil engineer, the problem with the Gallowgate remains three-fold: the slope (which necessitates additional structural strength due to increased height), Strawberry Place (assuming it remains in situ would mean having to build across it) and the Metro line (you’re going to need some spectacular piles to support the stand - some of which would likely need to go through the Metro station)

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5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

You couldn’t do much with the East Stand capacity-wise on its current footprint, unfortunately.  Which is why making it corporate would maximise revenue rather than bums on seats.  

Aye good point

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1 minute ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Was there any drawings? 

Yep, had them back in my old office in the UK.  Concept drawings, from before my time - for pricing purposes.  That’s how I make my living - civil engineering estimating.  I run a team of them here in Sydney :) - which is why I know that the advancements in civils aren’t quite what some may be assuming

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5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

If you’re a civil engineer, the problem with the Gallowgate remains three-fold: the slope (which necessitates additional structural strength due to increased height), Strawberry Place (assuming it remains in situ would mean having to build across it) and the Metro line (you’re going to need some spectacular piles to support the stand - some of which would likely need to go through the Metro station)

Wasn't it always assumed that any Gallowgate extension would incorporate the St James' metro site ?

 

The question is whether the metro station stays or goes.

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8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep, had them back in my old office in the UK.  Concept drawings, from before my time - for pricing purposes.  That’s how I make my living - civil engineering estimating.  I run a team of them here in Sydney :) - which is why I know that the advancements in civils aren’t quite what some may be assuming

I reckon half of us on here would be proper wanking over them. Just the thought gives me half a chub

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Just now, madras said:

Wasn't it always assumed that any Gallowgate extension would incorporate the St James' metro site ?

 

The question is whether the metro station stays or goes.

You’re right, that was always the intent as the Council wouldn’t have allowed it any other way - but the designs never went past concept stage.

 

It isn’t impossible, but if the Metro remains you’re looking at a hell of a span for structural steel to be holding up an entire stand with no supporting columns.  You wouldn’t be able to put columns in place without piling - and that would see massive concrete piles pushed through the Metro station.

 

If the Metro station is shut and grouted, then the issue is moot, and tbf I imagine that Strawberry Place could possibly be redirected and job’s a good ‘un.  Otherwise, it is either impossible or so expensive that it just wouldn’t be worth even thinking about doing it. 

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Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I might be being stupid here, but there doesn’t seem to be much point in the Metro going to St James anyway. 

Isn’t it where the changeover of track occurs?  So you’d need to pull that back to Monument.  Which also could be tricky. 

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1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

You’re right, that was always the intent as the Council wouldn’t have allowed it any other way - but the designs never went past concept stage.

 

It isn’t impossible, but if the Metro remains you’re looking at a hell of a span for structural steel to be holding up an entire stand with no supporting columns.  You wouldn’t be able to put columns in place without piling - and that would see massive concrete piles pushed through the Metro station.

 

If the Metro station is shut and grouted, then the issue is moot, and tbf I imagine that Strawberry Place could possibly be redirected and job’s a good ‘un.  Otherwise, it is either impossible or so expensive that it just wouldn’t be worth even thinking about doing it. 

Could the foundations not go in further back beyond the metro station? (I know....it would be fuckin massive) 

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I’ve seen the 3D models that the engineers used to thread new train and tube lines like Crossrail under London, through existing tunnels, foundations, lines and utility cables etc.

 

Was incredible to witness. I guess such a model of Newcastle probably doesn’t exist, but compared to that avoiding one metro line might be achievable. 

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1 minute ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Could the foundations not go in further back beyond the metro station? (I know....it would be fuckin massive) 

Potentially, though of course someone would need to do the load-bearing calcs and design it out.  Which would of course likely result in a ludicrously expensive design

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2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Isn’t it where the changeover of track occurs?  So you’d need to pull that back to Monument.  Which also could be tricky. 

Just get rid of the metro. Like the whole fuckin network. 

Part of me would be happy just cos they hoyed the mackem track direct to the airport 

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1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I’ve seen the 3D models that the engineers used to thread new train and tube lines like Crossrail under London, through existing tunnels, foundations, lines and utility cables etc.

 

Was incredible to witness. I guess such a model of Newcastle probably doesn’t exist, but compared to that avoiding one metro line might be achievable. 

This is where civils has moved on - laser-guided tunnel boring machines etc are insanely good at these types of works.  Weirdly, it would probably be the easiest bit to do

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2 minutes ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Just get rid of the metro. Like the whole fuckin network. 

Part of me would be happy just cos they hoyed the mackem track direct to the airport 

I’ve no issue with it tbf :) - SJP metro only really exists for the change of lines as far as I can see. 

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6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I might be being stupid here, but there doesn’t seem to be much point in the Metro going to St James anyway. 

It's used much more now that it used to be but it's still very much just a commuter station, mainly for the Helix.

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3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Isn’t it where the changeover of track occurs?  So you’d need to pull that back to Monument.  Which also could be tricky. 

Would you need a  changeover track ? Eastbound trains could arrive at Monument and the driver simply changes ends on arrival and their is a changeover point between Monument and Manors if needed.

 

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1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’ve no issue with it tbf :) - SJP metro only really exists for the change of lines as far as I can see. 

I was told it was there for possible future extension to the west end. Could never see it myself like.

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2 minutes ago, madras said:

I was told it was there for possible future extension to the west end. Could never see it myself like.

Yep, me neither.  I would have loved it to follow the old Scotswood, Newburn and Wylam Railway, being from the west end myself.  Never going to happen, though.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotswood,_Newburn_and_Wylam_Railway

 

 

Edited by TheBrownBottle

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14 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep, me neither.  I would have loved it to follow the old Scotswood, Newburn and Wylam Railway, being from the west end myself.  Never going to happen, though.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotswood,_Newburn_and_Wylam_Railway

 

 

 

I walk it regularly, Lemington/Newburn to Wylam. Always seemed strange that the plans westward would be from St James'.

 

 

Edited by madras

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