Penalty and diving

[alpal78]

General question and disregard your loyalty to the Toon, when would you accept a "penalty" as a legit one

[Wullie]

When there's been a foul committed. For example, Taylor's leg was taken, but he could probably have stayed on his feet if he'd really made an effort, but would certainly have stumbled and probably lost the ball. The ref's too soft to give one for an infringement like that, even though he would give it everywhere else on the field, so going down is that situation is fair enough imo.

 

Not sure I buy this "oh well there was contact" stuff though. It's a contact sport and it takes a lot more than an arm on the shoulder to send a grown man and a professional athlete sprawling to the ground. Contact's not enough for me to justify throwing yourself down with an agonised look on your face.

[Guest Geordiecunny]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

[Raconteur]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

[M4]

The only solution is a retro active video ban. 3 Games. They do it for violent conduct, this is the same, if not worse in my eyes. Serial divers who constantly get away with it are an abomination. THe World Cup was really horrible to watch at times as we moved more and more into the pressure matches.

[Northern Monkey]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

 

Then he wouldn't get sent off for divind, as he wouldn't dive.

[Raconteur]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

 

Then he wouldn't get sent off for divind, as he wouldn't dive.

 

Yeah, fair enough, but I guess I meant more from the ref's mindset point of view - Drogba had a bad reputation for diving, and while he has been cleaning up his act it's another element in that split-second decision the referee has to make. Player X always dives, Player Y dives sometimes, Player Z used to dive but not anymore... Preceonceptions are, unfortunately, part of a refs make-up.

 

Would be interesting to get Paul Mosely's views (or any other refs out there)

 

[Northern Monkey]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

 

Then he wouldn't get sent off for divind, as he wouldn't dive.

 

Yeah, fair enough, but I guess I meant more from the ref's mindset point of view - Drogba had a bad reputation for diving, and while he has been cleaning up his act it's another element in that split-second decision the referee has to make. Player X always dives, Player Y dives sometimes, Player Z used to dive but not anymore... Preceonceptions are, unfortunately, part of a refs make-up.

 

Would be interesting to get Paul Mosely's views (or any other refs out there)

 

 

I'd rather run the risk of poor refs using preconceptions than let everyone get away with diving.

[Dave]

If they banned a few high-profile people for a couple of games it'd stop a lot of it instantly imo. Ronaldo & Drogba have been on fire this year, imagine the uproar if they were both banned for 3 games.

[Raconteur]

I'd rather run the risk of poor refs using preconceptions than let everyone get away with diving.

 

That's fair I suppose - I'm reminded of the 1994 World Cup when FIFA brought in the edict banning the tackle from behind. Initially the refs went stupid - red cards to Zola and Etcheverry come to mind - but in short order rationality came in, the tackle from behind was largely driven out of the game...

 

[Tisd09]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

 

 

What about retrospective punishment. Okay it doesn't help the team it just happened to but it does punish the player. An example SWP with Elliott last season. I would like to see a ruling where a panel would say that SWP dived so he gets a match or two match ban and Elliott's red card recinded! To make it a red card offence would be very difficult but I feel afterwards its easier to punish!

[Raconteur]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

 

 

What about retrospective punishment. Okay it doesn't help the team it just happened to but it does punish the player. An example SWP with Elliott last season. I would like to see a ruling where a panel would say that SWP dived so he gets a match or two match ban and Elliott's red card recinded! To make it a red card offence would be very difficult but I feel afterwards its easier to punish!

 

It's a solution - not entirely satisfactory because as you say it doesn't help the team it happened to. If it's a crunch match a player is more likely to take the risk of being retrospectively banned if he can win a penalty/the match right now.

 

But yeah, something has to be done, and a solution, however imperfect, is better than not even trying to solve the problem.

 

EDIT: For example Fabio Grosso's swan dive in the World Cup second round against Australia - even if he ran the risk of a one, three, five match ban, he would always have dived just on the odd chance he won that penalty, given it was so late in the match...

 

[Guest brewer]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

Henry isn't really known as a diver.

 

 

[Raconteur]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

Henry isn't really known as a diver.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?!? After Cristiano Ronaldo who is the next worse diver in the league?

 

Not just a diver but a fucking hypocrite - all that shite after the Champions League about "not a woman" and then weeks later diving his way through to the World Cup final. Great player, repeat simulation offender...

 

[Wullie]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

Henry isn't really known as a diver.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?!? After Cristiano Ronaldo who is the next worse diver in the league?

 

Robben tbh.

[Raconteur]

Henry isn't really known as a diver.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?!? After Cristiano Ronaldo who is the next worse diver in the league?

 

Robben tbh.

 

Touche

 

[Guest brewer]

I think diving should be warranted with a straight red, then we'll see who's got the balls to try it. Ultimately it is cheating, so why not? It can distort the game and rob a team of potentially millions of pounds if done at a decisive time.

 

I said something similar in the Duff thread, but the fact is its unrealistic. Just imagine it's the World Cup Final (or Champions League, whatever) and Henry is charging into the box and has a swan dive. The ref has to be absolutely certain, zero question at all, in order to send him off. Then you have to factor reputations into it too - are players known as divers like Cristiano Ronaldo and Henry are going to be "gone after"? What happens when a player cleans up his act like Drogba?

 

I appreciate your basic sentiment, agree wholeheartedly, but applying it would be a nightmare!

 

Henry isn't really known as a diver.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?!? After Cristiano Ronaldo who is the next worse diver in the league?

 

Not just a diver but a f****** hypocrite - all that s**** after the Champions League about "not a woman" and then weeks later diving his way through to the World Cup final. Great player, repeat simulation offender...

 

You're correct on all points.

 

And yet in general, the public and media don't see him as a diver.