Martins' Worth?

[madras]

if yakubu went to everton for 11m then he's worth more than that, plane and simple

 

i find the whole thing laughable - when you have 2 strikers like owen and viduka then having a striker like martins is perfect...we have the consistent "what you see is what you get" from those two and in martins we've got the unexpected "can conjeur up something amazing" factor

 

perfect conbination...what's the point in bemoaning his finishing?  that's not what he's all about...fair enough people were maybe justified in complaining last year when he was basically our only striker but now we should be focusing on what he CAN do, not what he can't

 

if we get martins using his strengths well and owen/viduka doing the same we'll not be in bad shape

apart from the goal at spurs last season when has martins actually conjeured up something amazing.

 

 

more myth making ?

 

I would say his goals vs Bolton (overhead kick) and City were from balls where many strikers simply wouldn't have scored.

i'll grant you the bolton one but the citeh goal,for all it showed good technique wasn't "amazing" or very special. he's quick,powerful with a canny eye for goal but i feel there is a myth about his "conjeuring" abilities.

[fredbob]

if yakubu went to everton for 11m then he's worth more than that, plane and simple

 

i find the whole thing laughable - when you have 2 strikers like owen and viduka then having a striker like martins is perfect...we have the consistent "what you see is what you get" from those two and in martins we've got the unexpected "can conjeur up something amazing" factor

 

perfect conbination...what's the point in bemoaning his finishing?  that's not what he's all about...fair enough people were maybe justified in complaining last year when he was basically our only striker but now we should be focusing on what he CAN do, not what he can't

 

if we get martins using his strengths well and owen/viduka doing the same we'll not be in bad shape

apart from the goal at spurs last season when has martins actually conjeured up something amazing.

 

 

more myth making ?

 

I would say his goals vs Bolton (overhead kick) and City were from balls where many strikers simply wouldn't have scored.

i'll grant you the bolton one but the citeh goal,for all it showed good technique wasn't "amazing" or very special. he's quick,powerful with a canny eye for goal but i feel there is a myth about his "conjeuring" abilities.

 

He's scored 20 goals(?) for us man, i can think of a at least 3 or 4 goals which relatively speaking were out of nothing, which if ya think about is quite a high ratio, too high a one to say he doesnt have a "conjuring" ability. For me he is a bit special.

[NJS]

He's scored 20 goals(?) for us man

 

European pub teams account for 7 or 8 I think.

 

His touch, passing, awareness and "footballing brain" are absolutely terrible. Having said that he has an unpredictable rawness which gets a few which is great but its nothing to build on.

 

Talk of anything anywhere near or above what we paid for him is laughable.

 

 

 

 

 

[fredbob]

He's scored 20 goals(?) for us man

 

European pub teams account for 7 or 8 I think.

 

His touch, passing, awareness and "footballing brain" are absolutely terrible. Having said that he has an unpredictable rawness which gets a few which is great but its nothing to build on.

 

Talk of anything anywhere near or above what we paid for him is laughable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol, he has a lot to build on in my opnion, i dont understand how anyone can honestly belive that martins has lost value, are you people all insinuating that he wasnt worth 10m in the first place? If all these teams we play in the UEFA cup are pub teams, how the fuck can anyone place any value on winning the cup?? it boggles the mind some of the crap people come out with.

 

I mean he made the bigget contribution to the team last year in his first season in a different league at the age of 22, i know that he blows hot and cold alot but i dont place his value on what other people are worth or what individual flaws he has, thats just plain stupid, i place his value in accordance with his value to the team and quite frankly he made the biggest contribution to the team last year.  hence my belief that hes worth 13-14m

[Baggio]

AZ Alkmaar we're hardly a pub team.

[Yorkie]

He's scored 20 goals(?) for us man

 

European pub teams account for 7 or 8 I think.

 

Always makes me chuckle does that argument. So, If Martins is shite for scoring against the likes of Levadia and Zulte - what the hell does that make the likes of Emre, Duff, Milner, etc?

[Cajun]

He's scored 20 goals(?) for us man

 

European pub teams account for 7 or 8 I think.

 

His touch, passing, awareness and "footballing brain" are absolutely terrible. Having said that he has an unpredictable rawness which gets a few which is great but its nothing to build on.

 

Talk of anything anywhere near or above what we paid for him is laughable.

 

 

Nice long holiday this summer?

[Crumpy Gunt]

He's missed 3 sitters in the last 3 games.

 

He's worthless on that form.

[Guest Knightrider]

Whatever someone is willing to pay for him.

 

To us at this moment in time due to our other forwards either not being prolific enough or able to string a number of games together, he's priceless really, as he was last season who without we'd have went down.

 

My own opinion: He's worth about what we paid for him based on age, attributes, experience, goalscoring record, potential, market price etc.

 

 

[nufc4eva]

Martins is such a frustrating player because he creates so many chances for himself and scores blinding goals but can't finish when he has time to think. Is the same type of player as bellamy. Opposition players are scared shitless of him running at them and I love watching him play just wish there was more productivity because he could be top scorer in the league if he finished the simple ones. And my fantasy football team would be top also.

[NJS]

Nice long holiday this summer?

 

Like the one Martins went on the day after the UEFA cup exit?

 

Yes I do think £10m was a joke - Inter took the piss for their equivalent of Shola - bit of promise as a sub or in the odd start but nowhere near good enough to be a regular.

 

So who would pay big money for him?

 

 

[tmonkey]

If a Premiership club wants him, £17 million minimum. the price paid for Bent, who is inferior to Martins and has less room for improvement. If a foreign club wants him, then £11-13million. Martins is a player who we could replace easily imo, certainly with someone who is a better football player today (and hence more useful at a time when we're trying to break out of the now flooded mid table group), but is also a player who may go on to haunt us if he does improve.

[DJ_NUFC]

Nice long holiday this summer?

 

Like the one Martins went on the day after the UEFA cup exit?

 

Yes I do think £10m was a joke - Inter took the piss for their equivalent of Shola - bit of promise as a sub or in the odd start but nowhere near good enough to be a regular.

 

So who would pay big money for him?

 

 

 

Ban him.

 

(Joke! I understand that waving an imaginary yellow card is a yellow card offence.)

[fredbob]

If a Premiership club wants him, £17 million minimum. the price paid for Bent, who is inferior to Martins and has less room for improvement. If a foreign club wants him, then £11-13million. Martins is a player who we could replace easily imo, certainly with someone who is a better football player today (and hence more useful at a time when we're trying to break out of the now flooded mid table group), but is also a player who may go on to haunt us if he does improve.

 

Like who? Who is this imaginaery replacement we see who has the same pedigree as martins at such a young age? Played at International level, played at Champion Leagues level, played in UEFA, played in one of the most defensive leagues in Europe coming out with a decent goalscoring record. Someone who can replicate the 20 odd goals Martins has already scored for this club, all in there first season at a new league? Oh yeah, all for 10m....i'd love to know, anyone fancy obliging?

[tmonkey]

If a Premiership club wants him, £17 million minimum. the price paid for Bent, who is inferior to Martins and has less room for improvement. If a foreign club wants him, then £11-13million. Martins is a player who we could replace easily imo, certainly with someone who is a better football player today (and hence more useful at a time when we're trying to break out of the now flooded mid table group), but is also a player who may go on to haunt us if he does improve.

 

Like who? Who is this imaginaery replacement we see who has the same pedigree as martins at such a young age? Played at International level, played at Champion Leagues level, played in UEFA, played in one of the most defensive leagues in Europe coming out with a decent goalscoring record. Someone who can replicate the 20 odd goals Martins has already scored for this club, all in there first season at a new league? Oh yeah, all for 10m....i'd love to know, anyone fancy obliging?

 

Where did I state that his replacement needs to have the same age or experience as him?

 

Two that I can think of are Anelka and Gudjohnsen, both are considerably better footballers, have played for Big Sam before and are established in the Premiership, would probably leave us a tidy profit from any Martins sale, and are players wed probably have a very good chance of landing given their present situations. Their age isnt ideal for the price tag theyd be in, but thats peanuts compared to the benefits of finishing higher up the table, particularly in the long term.

 

Its impossible for any of us to know how different things might be with one player instead of the other - look at the impact Bellamy for example had with us when he was here, compared to the same team with for example Ameobi in it. I think the general rule that holds in most cases is that a player who's basic game is considerably better and more consistent will enable the team to be far more effective as a unit than a player with more talent but a far worse standard of, and consistency in, his general play. It often boils down to a case of possession - when the team plays it forward to Martins and he loses it every other time, then the team will naturally suffer compared to when they play it forward to Gudjohnsen for example and he maintains possession 90% of the time. More team moves, more possession, etc etc.

 

Were not even talking about a key player at all in Martins, he might turn out to be one in the longer term and he may have been last season due to our utter lack of options and squad depth, but right now hes not in our first team if everyone is fit, and he may not even fit in Big Sam's preferred system for all we know. Ive always had the viewpoint that we could replace any of Ferdinand, Shearer, or Owen if we truly wanted to or needed to, and our recent history shows that weve done that without fail - had we missed out on Owen, wed have landed Torres. Had we sold Shearer at the right time, we could have signed Eto'o, who we were linked with heavily at one point - we only missed out on Shepherd's preferred Shaerer replacement, Rooney, because of ManU spending the following summer's transfer budget to finance the move. Therefore, if we can replace even our very best players, why shouldnt we be able to replace Martins, even more so with Ashley's money and Allardyce's knowledge?

[fredbob]

If a Premiership club wants him, £17 million minimum. the price paid for Bent, who is inferior to Martins and has less room for improvement. If a foreign club wants him, then £11-13million. Martins is a player who we could replace easily imo, certainly with someone who is a better football player today (and hence more useful at a time when we're trying to break out of the now flooded mid table group), but is also a player who may go on to haunt us if he does improve.

 

Like who? Who is this imaginaery replacement we see who has the same pedigree as martins at such a young age? Played at International level, played at Champion Leagues level, played in UEFA, played in one of the most defensive leagues in Europe coming out with a decent goalscoring record. Someone who can replicate the 20 odd goals Martins has already scored for this club, all in there first season at a new league? Oh yeah, all for 10m....i'd love to know, anyone fancy obliging?

 

Where did I state that his replacement needs to have the same age or experience as him?

 

Two that I can think of are Anelka and Gudjohnsen, both are considerably better footballers, have played for Big Sam before and are established in the Premiership, would probably leave us a tidy profit from any Martins sale, and are players wed probably have a very good chance of landing given their present situations. Their age isnt ideal for the price tag theyd be in, but thats peanuts compared to the benefits of finishing higher up the table, particularly in the long term.

 

Its impossible for any of us to know how different things might be with one player instead of the other - look at the impact Bellamy for example had with us when he was here, compared to the same team with for example Ameobi in it. I think the general rule that holds in most cases is that a player who's basic game is considerably better and more consistent will enable the team to be far more effective as a unit than a player with more talent but a far worse standard of, and consistency in, his general play. It often boils down to a case of possession - when the team plays it forward to Martins and he loses it every other time, then the team will naturally suffer compared to when they play it forward to Gudjohnsen for example and he maintains possession 90% of the time. More team moves, more possession, etc etc.

 

Were not even talking about a key player at all in Martins, he might turn out to be one in the longer term and he may have been last season due to our utter lack of options and squad depth, but right now hes not in our first team if everyone is fit, and he may not even fit in Big Sam's preferred system for all we know. Ive always had the viewpoint that we could replace any of Ferdinand, Shearer, or Owen if we truly wanted to or needed to, and our recent history shows that weve done that without fail - had we missed out on Owen, wed have landed Torres. Had we sold Shearer at the right time, we could have signed Eto'o, who we were linked with heavily at one point - we only missed out on Shepherd's preferred Shaerer replacement, Rooney, because of ManU spending the following summer's transfer budget to finance the move. Therefore, if we can replace even our very best players, why shouldnt we be able to replace Martins, even more so with Ashley's money and Allardyce's knowledge?

 

Ok to be fair, i dint mean to pick on your quote like i did, it just sums up alot of what people are thinking and saying yet arent justifying, people keep sayin he isnt worth 10m when he is and i was pointing out the reasons why, you're right in sayin players like Anelka and Gudjohneson are better but i'd still take martins over Anelka for 10m.

[Cajun]

Nice long holiday this summer?

 

Like the one Martins went on the day after the UEFA cup exit?

 

Yes I do think £10m was a joke - Inter took the piss for their equivalent of Shola - bit of promise as a sub or in the odd start but nowhere near good enough to be a regular.

 

So who would pay big money for him?

 

 

 

So how much do you think he is worth? Given the prices people like Bent, Richardson, Chopra, Dyer etc went for?

[NJS]

Nice long holiday this summer?

 

Like the one Martins went on the day after the UEFA cup exit?

 

Yes I do think £10m was a joke - Inter took the piss for their equivalent of Shola - bit of promise as a sub or in the odd start but nowhere near good enough to be a regular.

 

So who would pay big money for him?

 

 

 

So how much do you think he is worth? Given the prices people like Bent, Richardson, Chopra, Dyer etc went for?

 

As much as Pompey or Wigan would pay for him - I'd guess £5-6m

 

 

 

[Yorkie]

[Cajun]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

[NJS]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

 

Yeah - same level of player.

 

 

[fredbob]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

 

Yeah - same level of player.

 

 

 

errr...who's gonna be the first to bite??

[NJS]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

 

Yeah - same level of player.

 

 

 

errr...who's gonna be the first to bite??

 

The fact that a player can be hailed as a multi-million pound superstar when he can't even control a football is a criminal enditment of the state of English football. Footballers who are about 17 league levels above what the average fan has ever played should be able to control a ball with either foot, pass to a teammate 5 yards away and hit the target from anywhere in the box with the vast majority of their attempts. Martins fails to do these things alarmingly often.

 

This doesn't apply just to Martins - it certainly applies to Shola and in recent years to a few other so called leading lights we've employed but I'm pig sick of adulation being poured on nothing more than half-decent footballers.

 

If you want to know what a good striker should be like its pretty simple - we have one - Owen.

 

 

[fredbob]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

 

Yeah - same level of player.

 

 

 

errr...who's gonna be the first to bite??

 

The fact that a player can be hailed as a multi-million pound superstar when he can't even control a football is a criminal enditment of the state of English football. Footballers who are about 17 league levels above what the average fan has ever played should be able to control a ball with either foot, pass to a teammate 5 yards away and hit the target from anywhere in the box with the vast majority of their attempts. Martins fails to do these things alarmingly often.

 

This doesn't apply just to Martins - it certainly applies to Shola and in recent years to a few other so called leading lights we've employed but I'm pig sick of adulation being poured on nothing more than half-decent footballers.

 

If you want to know what a good striker should be like its pretty simple - we have one - Owen.

 

 

 

Same level as Nugent....huh??? 

 

Ok, the thing is, is that in the end, he;s stuck the ball away more often than most strikers in the prem, thats what a strikers for correct? I thik people are being sooo short sighted when they look at some of the poor touches he makes, or how he's been absent in some games, for some reason they're outlined more than others, i dont understand how a player who is able to score 17 goals in a team which couldnt spell creativity let alone implent any can be even mentioned in the same breath as Shola "fizzy pop league" Ameobi, or Nugent. Ridiculous statement.

[Cajun]

Pompey paid about £7m for Nugent didn't they?

 

Yeah - same level of player.

 

 

 

If Nugent has anywhere near the same impact Martins did last season I will bring my left testicle to you on a silver plate.