Article on BBC Sport, Roeder Rubbish, Big Club?

[Wullie]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

[Dave]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

YAY! Thanks.

 

I'd take that tbh.

[NE5]

Didn't you say Boumsong was alright? Not sure i'd be basing an argument around him if I were you tbh.

 

no. I always said that - despite some good points which every player has apart from Luque, Fumaca  - and the players bought all the time out of the 3rd division which was our stamping ground when we had a shit board that thickmick thinks was good - he would never be good enough for the premiership or what we thought we should get for 8m quid.

 

Quite a few people on here were wetting their knicks with delight when we bought him though ....... 

 

 

[Mick]

 

dear old thickmick....you STILL think anyone would be better than the current board don't you ?

 

mackems.gif

 

Because - if you don't - then why suggest a replacement when you have NO idea who they would be ?

 

I see Fred left his shooting boots behind today ... as its all his fault

 

Provide a link to where I have ever said that anybody would be better than the current board, a link is one of those things I've provided for your other personalities.

[Dave]

Wasn't that more due to the fact we'd actually spent some money on a defender for a change?

 

Well done on successfully sidestepping my question btw.

[Mick]

 

 

no. I always said that - despite some good points which every player has apart from Luque, Fumaca  - and the players bought all the time out of the 3rd division which was our stamping ground when we had a s*** board that thickmick thinks was good - he would never be good enough for the premiership or what we thought we should get for 8m quid.

 

Quite a few people on here were wetting their knicks with delight when we bought him though ....... 

 

 

 

What about his earlier question, afraid to give an answer are you?

[NE5]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

The position of 7th is a position we attained only twice in over 30 years ie 7th in 1970 and 5th in 1977, before the current board. Glory days ....... thickmick will say that the old board is "just the same as the current one" though

 

 

[Dave]

 

I give up. Your prize is in the post.

 

PS - it's dogdirt in a Jiffy.

[NE5]

 

 

no. I always said that - despite some good points which every player has apart from Luque, Fumaca  - and the players bought all the time out of the 3rd division which was our stamping ground when we had a s*** board that thickmick thinks was good - he would never be good enough for the premiership or what we thought we should get for 8m quid.

 

Quite a few people on here were wetting their knicks with delight when we bought him though ....... 

 

 

 

What about his earlier question, afraid to give an answer are you?

 

I'm still waiting for you to tell us why GAzza, Waddle, Beardsley and Pop robson all local lads wanted to leave Newcastle, and why Gordon Lee left Newcastle for Everton, in fact I've been waiting months.

 

 

[NE5]

 

I give up. Your prize is in the post.

 

PS - it's dogdirt in a Jiffy.

 

those league positions are fact.

 

 

[tmonkey]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

The position of 7th is a position we attained only twice in over 30 years ie 7th in 1970 and 5th in 1977, before the current board. Glory days ....... thickmick will say that the old board is "just the same as the current one" though

 

Did any of those boards take over the 2nd best team/squad in the country, with it only being a player or two short of being the very best, and having the facilities and resources required to cement its place at the top for the forseable future?

[NE5]

 

dear old thickmick....you STILL think anyone would be better than the current board don't you ?

 

mackems.gif

 

Because - if you don't - then why suggest a replacement when you have NO idea who they would be ?

 

I see Fred left his shooting boots behind today ... as its all his fault

 

Provide a link to where I have ever said that anybody would be better than the current board, a link is one of those things I've provided for your other personalities.

 

why don't you answer the question then ? Take your time, a few more months waiting won't hurt  mackems.gif

[Mick]

 

I'm still waiting for you to tell us why GAzza, Waddle, Beardsley and Pop robson all local lads wanted to leave Newcastle, and why Gordon Lee left Newcastle for Everton, in fact I've been waiting months.

 

 

 

I've answered, again you resort to lying, just answer the question you're doing your best to avoid.

[Mick]

 

dear old thickmick....you STILL think anyone would be better than the current board don't you ?

 

mackems.gif

 

Because - if you don't - then why suggest a replacement when you have NO idea who they would be ?

 

I see Fred left his shooting boots behind today ... as its all his fault

 

Provide a link to where I have ever said that anybody would be better than the current board, a link is one of those things I've provided for your other personalities.

 

why don't you answer the question then ? Take your time, a few more months waiting won't hurt  mackems.gif

 

I wouldn't dream of stealing your thunder, you answer it, it was directed at you.

[NE5]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

The position of 7th is a position we attained only twice in over 30 years ie 7th in 1970 and 5th in 1977, before the current board. Glory days ....... thickmick will say that the old board is "just the same as the current one" though

 

Did any of those boards take over the 2nd best team/squad in the country, with it only being a player or two short of being the very best, and having the facilities and resources required to cement its place at the top for the forseable future?

 

Sadly, in the real world, nobody stays top, or 2nd, forever. Thickmicks favourite chairman Doug Ellis's exploits at Aston Villa are proof of that. Well done pointing out that we were 2nd in the league due to the efforts of a manager chosen and persuaded to take the job by Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher though. BTW....the facilities and resources were nowhere near the best, but they are now, having been improved massivly during the last decade.

 

BTW also, did you not think that appointing a manager who had won 4 league championships with 2 different clubs, and 3 manager of the year awards, was a good enough criteria to build on a team that was 2nd top of the league ? If not, please tell us what alternative criteria you would have used.

 

 

[NE5]

 

dear old thickmick....you STILL think anyone would be better than the current board don't you ?

 

mackems.gif

 

Because - if you don't - then why suggest a replacement when you have NO idea who they would be ?

 

I see Fred left his shooting boots behind today ... as its all his fault

 

Provide a link to where I have ever said that anybody would be better than the current board, a link is one of those things I've provided for your other personalities.

 

why don't you answer the question then ? Take your time, a few more months waiting won't hurt  mackems.gif

 

I wouldn't dream of stealing your thunder, you answer it, it was directed at you.

 

dee dee dee dee.......still waiting for your reply

 

 

[NE5]

 

I'm still waiting for you to tell us why GAzza, Waddle, Beardsley and Pop robson all local lads wanted to leave Newcastle, and why Gordon Lee left Newcastle for Everton, in fact I've been waiting months.

 

 

 

I've answered, again you resort to lying, just answer the question you're doing your best to avoid.

 

you haven't. You said something about the club not affording to keep them, but how can that be, with such a good board showing such ambition, buying good players like the current board, and such good supporters flocking to watch the team every week, just like the last decade in fact ?

 

Basically, it is the wrong answer, and quite simply shows you're a KK bandwagon jumper, or a liar.

 

 

[Mick]

 

you haven't. You said something about the club not affording to keep them, but how can that be, with such a good board showing such ambition, buying good players like the current board, and such good supporters flocking to watch the team every week, just like the last decade in fact ?

 

Basically, it is the wrong answer, and quite simply shows you're a KK bandwagon jumper, or a liar.

 

 

 

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ whatever.

 

I'll define liar for you, NE5 is not Leazes Mag even though he told me in a pm that he was, NE5 is not Beermonster.  Shit I am lying

[tmonkey]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

The position of 7th is a position we attained only twice in over 30 years ie 7th in 1970 and 5th in 1977, before the current board. Glory days ....... thickmick will say that the old board is "just the same as the current one" though

 

Did any of those boards take over the 2nd best team/squad in the country, with it only being a player or two short of being the very best, and having the facilities and resources required to cement its place at the top for the forseable future?

 

Sadly, in the real world, nobody stays top, or 2nd, forever. Thickmicks favourite chairman Doug Ellis's exploits at Aston Villa are proof of that. Well done pointing out that we were 2nd in the league due to the efforts of a manager chosen and persuaded to take the job by Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher though. BTW....the facilities and resources were nowhere near the best, but they are now, having been improved massivly during the last decade.

 

Forever? We went into decline as soon as Shepherd took over. Speaks volumes, doesnt it?

 

And why have Arsenal, Liverpool and ManU managed to maintain their positions at the top during the same decade? Maybe because they dont sack their managers 5 games into a season after undermining them, or appoint shiite ones because of a "British preferably, must have managed in England if not" criteria?

 

Theres a difference between not always being able to win, ie slipping slightly from contenders to pretenders, and actually slipping all the way down from contenders to dogshiite, to relegation possibles. Thats what weve done, and theres always a reason behind that - for us, its Shepherd's mishandling of the club due to his own incompetence.

 

For example, take Sir Bobby. We finish 5th despite having a woeful season, Fat Fred does nothing. Houllier finishes 4th whilst having a woeful season, Liverpool sack him, scour the globe for the best manager they can find immediately at the season's end, and appoint a top manager from La Liga. Fred, on the other hand, waits until 5 games into the new season before wielding the axe, scouring  England first for English managers (Curbishley, Allardyce, Bruce), then failing that, goes for the next best thing - a Brit. We end up with Souness.

 

Just a simple, idiotic approach to appointing managers has set us back God knows how many years. We might not even recover for all we know. And whos fault is it? Shepherds. Not some unknown, mysterious force working in the background, a force that makes clubs rise and fall. Thats not the way it is - theres a reason behind why some clubs can hit such peaks and troughs. Like West Ham signing two foreign superstars and unsettling the cohesion of their team - thats the reason behind why theyll get relegated, not "because sometimes some clubs go down after doing well".

 

Of course, youre a Shepherd fanatic, which is why youre clinging to these ramblings as opposed to looking at any kind of reason, so its not unexpected of you.

 

BTW also' date=' did you not think that appointing a manager who had won 4 league championships with 2 different clubs, and 3 manager of the year awards, was a good enough criteria to build on a team that was 2nd top of the league ? If not, please tell us what alternative criteria you would have used. [/quote']

 

Ive told you a million times, and youve failed to answer purely because theres no comeback. Continental manager, thats my criteria - a manager who has proven himself capable of consistently building and organising a side into doing well both domestically and in continental competition - a double headed campaign. From off the field traits, like transfer market nous, scouting network and links, man management, reputation, to on the field effect - tactics, substitutions, his team's playing style and philosophy. Someone who has proven they have been able to do decently in all these categories, and above all, have experience in what we require - the ability to plan for a double headed campaign. Not one, not the other, but both.

 

That rules out Dalglish (Blackburn shiite in Europe), Gullitt (Chelsea with Serie A stars knocked out by unknowns), Souness and Roeder (no record at all).

 

I said this in the summer, that this was the main reason why I didnt want Roeder. If hes not got the track record of dealing with a double headed campaign, hes not going to be able to plan for it, or cope with outfoxing those he comes across. And thats what has happened, Roeder in waiting to sign the perfect players for the positions he knows need recruiting (eg Bridge for left back) has failed to plug the gaps, and weve been exposed as soon as weve come up against a good side with a manager who fills all the criteria just listed.

 

And for the 100th time, its always been daft of Freddy Shepherd to give someone this job when they have no record of success with regards to this double headed campaign, and then expect someone to do achieve just that - go far in Europe and domestically.

 

Dalglish was someone I personally didnt want, at the time I was pissed off we went for him, but as you say, at least there was logic behind going for him, so im not going to be overly critical of Shepherd with regards to this one shiite appointment.

 

But Gullitt was a stupid move because the man ended up doing exactly what he did at Chelsea, ie causing a revolt. I still remember all those articles about how dark those Chelsea days were towards the end, when the likes of Vialli were supposed to have turned on Gullitt, and Gullitt had lost the dressing room long before resigning. But I wasnt suprised that Shepherd wouldnt have been informed, thats the type of person he comes accross as - the type of man who would be ignorant enough to think Souness is a good manager when the rest of the entire f****** country knew the man to be a joke.

 

On top of this, Gullitt's success were nothing but locational. Being manager of a trendy, north london club meant he could attract Serie A's reject stars, at a time when Serie A shat on the Premiership. Thats the only reason why he did well as Chelsea manager - was he going to do the same at Newcastle? I doubted it at the time, but I thought thats why we appointed Gullitt - because he was going to attract some Serie A rejects.

 

Anyway, its quite clear from Shepherd's record of appointing managers that hes incompetent at doing so, and in football, thats the chairman's most important job and what he needs to get right to justify his wages. I find it comical how the likes of you and HTL can back Shepherd for sacking Sir Bobby, talking about Sir Bobby's "expensive" failures in the transfer market, yet using double standards when it comes to Shepherds expensive failures in the manager market. If youre s*** at your job, you should go, and Shepherd needs to go.

[Dave]

You do realise all that work will magically turn into 'blah blah blah' don't you?

[NE5]

 

you haven't. You said something about the club not affording to keep them, but how can that be, with such a good board showing such ambition, buying good players like the current board, and such good supporters flocking to watch the team every week, just like the last decade in fact ?

 

Basically, it is the wrong answer, and quite simply shows you're a KK bandwagon jumper, or a liar.

 

 

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ whatever.

 

I'll define liar for you, NE5 is not Leazes Mag even though he told me in a pm that he was, NE5 is not Beermonster.  Shit I am lying

 

The only pm I ever sent you was when you told me where you lived up in jockland.

 

dee dee dee dee.....still waiting for your reply to the question earlier BTW

 

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

The only pm I ever sent you was when you told me where you lived up in jockland.

 

dee dee dee dee.....still waiting for your reply to the question earlier BTW

 

 

 

 

 

Liar, nothing earth shattering about that though, it's a well known FACT.

 

Anyway, this becomes even more boring by the minute so I'll give it a miss for a while. :sleepy1:

[NE5]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

The position of 7th is a position we attained only twice in over 30 years ie 7th in 1970 and 5th in 1977, before the current board. Glory days ....... thickmick will say that the old board is "just the same as the current one" though

 

Did any of those boards take over the 2nd best team/squad in the country, with it only being a player or two short of being the very best, and having the facilities and resources required to cement its place at the top for the forseable future?

 

Sadly, in the real world, nobody stays top, or 2nd, forever. Thickmicks favourite chairman Doug Ellis's exploits at Aston Villa are proof of that. Well done pointing out that we were 2nd in the league due to the efforts of a manager chosen and persuaded to take the job by Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher though. BTW....the facilities and resources were nowhere near the best, but they are now, having been improved massivly during the last decade.

 

Forever? We went into decline as soon as Shepherd took over. Speaks volumes, doesnt it?

 

And why have Arsenal, Liverpool and ManU managed to maintain their positions at the top during the same decade? Maybe because they dont sack their managers 5 games into a season after undermining them, or appoint shiite ones because of a "British preferably, must have managed in England if not" criteria?

 

Theres a difference between not always being able to win, ie slipping slightly from contenders to pretenders, and actually slipping all the way down from contenders to dogshiite, to relegation possibles. Thats what weve done, and theres always a reason behind that - for us, its Shepherd's mishandling of the club due to his own incompetence.

 

For example, take Sir Bobby. We finish 5th despite having a woeful season, Fat Fred does nothing. Houllier finishes 4th whilst having a woeful season, Liverpool sack him, scour the globe for the best manager they can find immediately at the season's end, and appoint a top manager from La Liga. Fred, on the other hand, waits until 5 games into the new season before wielding the axe, scouring  England first for English managers (Curbishley, Allardyce, Bruce), then failing that, goes for the next best thing - a Brit. We end up with Souness.

 

Just a simple, idiotic approach to appointing managers has set us back God knows how many years. We might not even recover for all we know. And whos fault is it? Shepherds. Not some unknown, mysterious force working in the background, a force that makes clubs rise and fall. Thats not the way it is - theres a reason behind why some clubs can hit such peaks and troughs. Like West Ham signing two foreign superstars and unsettling the cohesion of their team - thats the reason behind why theyll get relegated, not "because sometimes some clubs go down after doing well".

 

Of course, youre a Shepherd fanatic, which is why youre clinging to these ramblings as opposed to looking at any kind of reason, so its not unexpected of you.

 

BTW also' date=' did you not think that appointing a manager who had won 4 league championships with 2 different clubs, and 3 manager of the year awards, was a good enough criteria to build on a team that was 2nd top of the league ? If not, please tell us what alternative criteria you would have used. [/quote']

 

Ive told you a million times, and youve failed to answer purely because theres no comeback. Continental manager, thats my criteria - a manager who has proven himself capable of consistently building and organising a side into doing well both domestically and in continental competition - a double headed campaign. From off the field traits, like transfer market nous, scouting network and links, man management, reputation, to on the field effect - tactics, substitutions, his team's playing style and philosophy. Someone who has proven they have been able to do decently in all these categories, and above all, have experience in what we require - the ability to plan for a double headed campaign. Not one, not the other, but both.

 

That rules out Dalglish (Blackburn shiite in Europe), Gullitt (Chelsea with Serie A stars knocked out by unknowns), Souness and Roeder (no record at all).

 

I said this in the summer, that this was the main reason why I didnt want Roeder. If hes not got the track record of dealing with a double headed campaign, hes not going to be able to plan for it, or cope with outfoxing those he comes across. And thats what has happened, Roeder in waiting to sign the perfect players for the positions he knows need recruiting (eg Bridge for left back) has failed to plug the gaps, and weve been exposed as soon as weve come up against a good side with a manager who fills all the criteria just listed.

 

And for the 100th time, its always been daft of Freddy Shepherd to give someone this job when they have no record of success with regards to this double headed campaign, and then expect someone to do achieve just that - go far in Europe and domestically.

 

Dalglish was someone I personally didnt want, at the time I was pissed off we went for him, but as you say, at least there was logic behind going for him, so im not going to be overly critical of Shepherd with regards to this one shiite appointment.

 

But Gullitt was a stupid move because the man ended up doing exactly what he did at Chelsea, ie causing a revolt. I still remember all those articles about how dark those Chelsea days were towards the end, when the likes of Vialli were supposed to have turned on Gullitt, and Gullitt had lost the dressing room long before resigning. But I wasnt suprised that Shepherd wouldnt have been informed, thats the type of person he comes accross as - the type of man who would be ignorant enough to think Souness is a good manager when the rest of the entire f****** country knew the man to be a joke.

 

On top of this, Gullitt's success were nothing but locational. Being manager of a trendy, north london club meant he could attract Serie A's reject stars, at a time when Serie A shat on the Premiership. Thats the only reason why he did well as Chelsea manager - was he going to do the same at Newcastle? I doubted it at the time, but I thought thats why we appointed Gullitt - because he was going to attract some Serie A rejects.

 

Anyway, its quite clear from Shepherd's record of appointing managers that hes incompetent at doing so, and in football, thats the chairman's most important job and what he needs to get right to justify his wages. I find it comical how the likes of you and HTL can back Shepherd for sacking Sir Bobby, talking about Sir Bobby's "expensive" failures in the transfer market, yet using double standards when it comes to Shepherds expensive failures in the manager market. If youre s*** at your job, you should go, and Shepherd needs to go.

 

You ought to tell all the 88 clubs that finish outside the top 4 to copy the magic formula, so everybody can finish top ....... yeah, a daft idea. Fortunately, it isn't me who is floating such unrealistic nonsense.

 

We are also, of course, the only club that doesn't appoint foreign managers, apart from Gullit that is.

 

Incompetent is how the club was run for over 30 years prior to 1992, and also all the big clubs that are a lot lower than us at the moment, especially the ones we have overtaken and qualified more for europe than over the past decade, while filling a big stadium, buying international footballers. Simply terrible, woeful in fact. We must be the only club not searching for the new Arsene Wenger, whatever can all the other clubs be doing ??

 

You don't have to tell me that Souness was an arsehole. However, there are plenty of people on this board who said we should back him, and now they say Shepherd is stupid, well they must also be stupid as they agreed with him.

 

Gullit had the support of the majority of Newcastle's supporters at the time. So they also, must be as stupid as Shepherd [i didn't want Gullit BTW, because I don't give a toss about all that "sexy football" bollocks for starters.

 

So thats 2 of the 4 appointments where the majority of the clubs stupid supporters agreed with the stupid chairman.

 

What we really need, is someone who gets the appointment right every time, like everybody else does, and also a manager who buys and sells the right players every time, and never makes a mistake, like everybody else does.

 

Unrealistic ? Again.

 

Aye. I'm glad it isn't me who is expecting such things.

 

For the record, I am not sure if I agree with you that a manager MUST be foreign. Alex Ferguson is doing alright, and I don't give a toss if he is green with pink hair to be honest, so long as he knows what he is doing. First things first, before you take europe for granted - which speaks volumes actually - is actually qualifying for europe. Thickmick will confirm that we always qualified for europe for 30 odd years under the old board, as it is "just the same" as the current one.

 

As for Dalglish being shite in europe, I doubt very much the Liverpool team he improved [funny that, taking over a top quality team and improving it, just what we wanted when he took over from Keegan in fact] wouldn't have done well in europe and may even have won the European Cup again if not for the ban on English teams.

 

Your sentence about Shepherd buying players only really shows you are copying and pasting other peoples comments, who also don't read properly. You will not find any comment from me, anywhere, where I say that the chairman selects who to buy and sell, whether they succeed or fail.

 

I think it is quite ironic that people are rubbishing the appointment of Gullit for his "glitzy" approach to signing foreigners, suggesting they want a track suited manager who will work hard for the club, then criticising the current manager when they now have precisely that. And don't take that as meaning I think we will win the premiership under him, because it is certainly not, it is only pointing out the hypocrisy that crops up regularly from a lot of people who haven't got a clue what they are saying and do nothing other than make knee jerk reactions and change their tune on a regular basis.

 

 

[NE5]

 

The only pm I ever sent you was when you told me where you lived up in jockland.

 

dee dee dee dee.....still waiting for your reply to the question earlier BTW

 

 

Liar, nothing earth shattering about that though, it's a well known FACT.

 

Anyway, this becomes even more boring by the minute so I'll give it a miss for a while. :sleepy1:

 

Truth. I bet you can't post that pm.

 

Dee dee dee dee.......still waiting for a response ref GAzza, Waddle, Beardsley, Robson, Lee .....

 

 

[Howaythelads]

If we were to finish 16th (we're 4 points above that right now) and Bolton and Spurs were to stay where they are atm, 5th and 6th respectively, we would drop to 7th best over the past 5 years.

 

Glad you understand that the appointment of Souness was a mistake at last.