Guest optimistic nit Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teepee Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Doesn't Oliver recall that Tierry Henry was crap in his first season? Would he have sold him as well because he hadn't adjusted straight away? Martins needs a full season at least to adjust to the premiership. With some, eg Postiga, Rebrov, they just never adjusted to the premiership. Others, like Berbatov, adjusted pretty quickly (but not from day one). Others, like Martins, Henry, Drogba, need/needed a full season to adjust. Martins has all the attributes to be a success in the premiership, stick with him! agreed - i think that martins will be a top top striker in this league for years to come. (but i also would put berbatov in the same bracket, he has been good on occasions, but quiete poor on others - not totally unlike martins imo) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Hows this for a conspiracy? Martins signed for big money, does well in his first season, is a mid-season target for Chelsea (it was widely reported they wanted to do a deal of some sort involving Martins/SWP). Fat Fred is keen to sell but doesn't want the fans disgruntled so tips Anal the wink to slate Martins at any given opportunity to try to influence the fans opinion of him. Freddie flogs him in the summer for £15m-£20m and that money funds our transfer activity for 2007/08 season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. Wouldn't criticise the big man but the reason we relinquish possession now is because we still play like he is up top. When teams like Arsenal, Man Utd & Chelsea were playing great football we were lumping the ball to a less than mobile Shearer. We haven't stopped doing it - even now. The distribution from the centre halves and the midfield (without Emre) is shocking. It begs for a big man up front to get lumped in the air and win us a free kick. We didn't need to do that in the early Shearer days but when he lost his pace our style of playing was reminiscent of Wimbledon on occasions. That is also a factor is Martins not scoring as much. He doesn't know where to expect the ball to be able to choose/time his runs. Inevitably its over his head to run on to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Shearer was immesne, there is no other way of putting it he had an awesome work rate in every game he played in, also a great leader. Once he finished we were never going to be able to replace him with a same type player, purley because there is not another Shearer type player left. Can we expect Martins to be the same kind of player? I suppose we can expect him to get back and help out durring corners, free-kicks and stuff, but Anal is not talking about that part of Oba's game. He is never going to be happy with anything he does, Duff is no Robert yet Anal hated Robert and slated him every chance he got, wheres the slating of Duff? Martins will come good in time and prove he is well worth what we paid for him, 22 year old 1st season and he has not to bad a goal scoring record, but if he is going to be constantly compared to Shearer he is never going to match up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. examples then? feel free to prove me wrong but post 98 shearer was very slow. he contributed his goals, and we knew that once he would gone we would need someone to replace his goals, but its not like his pace ripped teams apart. he also provided someone to aim for, to knock the ball down or hold it up to create other chances, but what else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fundamental difference in Martins/Shearer is that Shearer rarely wasted a pass, nearly always finding his man after holding off defenders, whereas Martins rarely completes a pass up top, surrendering posession so easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fundamental difference in Martins/Shearer is that Shearer rarely wasted a pass, nearly always finding his man after holding off defenders, whereas Martins rarely completes a pass up top, surrendering posession so easily. And Shearer had a fantastic first touch whereas Martin's 3rd touch looks poor at times. Same net result though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fundamental difference in Martins/Shearer is that Shearer rarely wasted a pass, nearly always finding his man after holding off defenders, whereas Martins rarely completes a pass up top, surrendering posession so easily. And Shearer had a fantastic first touch whereas Martin's 3rd touch looks poor at times. Same net result though. the two problems i highlighted with martins, alongside poor decision making, but these things improve with good coaching, and age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. examples then? feel free to prove me wrong but post 98 shearer was very slow. he contributed his goals, and we knew that once he would gone we would need someone to replace his goals, but its not like his pace ripped teams apart. he also provided someone to aim for, to knock the ball down or hold it up to create other chances, but what else? Examples of what? Of him playing a big part in our performances from 1998 onwards? Are you really serious? No offence mate, but I'm absolutely incredulous at the suggestion that someone needs examples of Shearer contributing something other than goals or knockdowns from 1998 onwards. I mean were you watching NUFC at all during that period? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 He could blame the midfiled for not feeding Martins with quality crosses and passes!! but oh no its another chance to have a dig at Martins because he is not Shearer. Sorry mate but Martins deserves every bit of the critcism he is getting - and more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 He could blame the midfiled for not feeding Martins with quality crosses and passes!! but oh no its another chance to have a dig at Martins because he is not Shearer. Sorry mate but Martins deserves every bit of the critcism he is getting - and more. They all deserve what they get yes, but Anal singled out Martins again when they were all shite! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 He could blame the midfiled for not feeding Martins with quality crosses and passes!! but oh no its another chance to have a dig at Martins because he is not Shearer. Sorry mate but Martins deserves every bit of the critcism he is getting - and more. They all deserve what they get yes, but Anal singled out Martins again when they were all shite! Martins was shite on toast though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 He could blame the midfiled for not feeding Martins with quality crosses and passes!! but oh no its another chance to have a dig at Martins because he is not Shearer. Sorry mate but Martins deserves every bit of the critcism he is getting - and more. They all deserve what they get yes, but Anal singled out Martins again when they were all shite! Got a bit of time for Martins but on Saturday, seriously, it would have been difficult for him to have had a worse match than he did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Invicta_Toon Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Shearer was scoring for fun at Martins age, and he hadn't played in Serie A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. examples then? feel free to prove me wrong but post 98 shearer was very slow. he contributed his goals, and we knew that once he would gone we would need someone to replace his goals, but its not like his pace ripped teams apart. he also provided someone to aim for, to knock the ball down or hold it up to create other chances, but what else? Examples of what? Of him playing a big part in our performances from 1998 onwards? Are you really serious? No offence mate, but I'm absolutely incredulous at the suggestion that someone needs examples of Shearer contributing something other than goals or knockdowns from 1998 onwards. I mean were you watching NUFC at all during that period? avidly, much more than today, it was when i was completely addicted to the toon when i actually (stupidly) thought we were going somewhere. anyway, your all right, i'm wrong, i don't really care about this stupid irrelivent debate anyway, and i wish i hadn't brought it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fundamental difference in Martins/Shearer is that Shearer rarely wasted a pass, nearly always finding his man after holding off defenders, whereas Martins rarely completes a pass up top, surrendering posession so easily. And Shearer had a fantastic first touch whereas Martin's 3rd touch looks poor at times. Same net result though. the two problems i highlighted with martins, alongside poor decision making, but these things improve with good coaching, and age. He'll never have a good consistent first touch imo. Not that type of player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Re: Oliver singling Martins out ahead of the other dross... Not all of them cost £10m, have shown themselves to be awesome at times and have massive sections of the fanbase positively wooden in their kecks, though. I think with Martins it's more peoples' disappointment at how bad he often is, after he has shown such glimpses of utter brilliance. To me, there are definite current parallels with people's attitudes towards Robert during his time here: i.e. sometime he is virtually unplayable and he scores some of the best goals ever seen, but the vast majority of the time he offers very, very little from open play and is incredibly frustrating. People generally accept when a player is shite and never rises above average, but when you have someone who has the occasional barnstormer/brilliant moment and is a passenger for the vast majority of the rest of the time it becomes extremely hard to stomach. Right or wrong, that's how it looks to me and it's how I feel about Martins. I do hope he stays and proves me wrong, but like others have said: there are a lot of aspects to his game that he needs to take responsibility for and at 22, not 17/18/19 like you would think he is the way some go on about him, he's going to need to improve them fairly quickly if he is going to succeed here. Rooney is apparently "vastly overrated" at 21, but at a year older, Martins needs "time to improve". There's something not quite right there. I don't think there are many - even Oliver - saying Martins is a poor player, and he is daft for wanting him sold after less than a season here, but surely the frustrations are understandable and mostly reasonable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Re: Oliver singling Martins out ahead of the other dross... Not all of them cost £10m, have shown themselves to be awesome at times and have massive sections of the fanbase positively wooden in their kecks, though. I think with Martins it's more peoples' disappointment at how bad he often is, after he has shown such glimpses of utter brilliance. To me, there are definite current parallels with people's attitudes towards Robert during his time here: i.e. sometime he is virtually unplayable and he scores some of the best goals ever seen, but the vast majority of the time he offers very, very little from open play and is incredibly frustrating. People generally accept when a player is shite and never rises above average, but when you have someone who has the occasional barnstormer/brilliant moment and is a passenger for the vast majority of the rest of the time it becomes extremely hard to stomach. Right or wrong, that's how it looks to me and it's how I feel about Martins. I do hope he stays and proves me wrong, but like others have said: there are a lot of aspects to his game that he needs to take responsibility for and at 22, not 17/18/19 like you would think he is the way some go on about him, he's going to need to improve them fairly quickly if he is going to succeed here. Rooney is apparently "vastly overrated" at 21, but at a year older, Martins needs "time to improve". There's something not quite right there. I don't think there are many - even Oliver - saying Martins is a poor player, and he is daft for wanting him sold after less than a season here, but surely the frustrations are understandable and mostly reasonable? Nice one, sums things up nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Invicta_Toon Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Martins doesn't need a first touch, his play is about running onto a proper pass and firing it without thinking, if he has to take a first touch something went wrong. In Man City's case, he was never going to be a usefull body on the park Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 you think? i'm not saying he was a passenger post 98, but what did he do for the team apart from score goals and have balls booted out for him to knock down. You're serious, aren't you?? For "what did he do for the team", see the games when he was injured and couldn't play, and it became all too apparent how much we were going to miss him when he was gone. See the current team and the way every time the ball goes down field, we immediately relinquish possession and suffer another wave of attacks. Shearer was massive for us, I can't believe you're trying to suggest he contributed nothing but goals and knockdowns. examples then? feel free to prove me wrong but post 98 shearer was very slow. he contributed his goals, and we knew that once he would gone we would need someone to replace his goals, but its not like his pace ripped teams apart. he also provided someone to aim for, to knock the ball down or hold it up to create other chances, but what else? Examples of what? Of him playing a big part in our performances from 1998 onwards? Are you really serious? No offence mate, but I'm absolutely incredulous at the suggestion that someone needs examples of Shearer contributing something other than goals or knockdowns from 1998 onwards. I mean were you watching NUFC at all during that period? avidly, much more than today, it was when i was completely addicted to the toon when i actually (stupidly) thought we were going somewhere. anyway, your all right, i'm wrong, i don't really care about this stupid irrelivent debate anyway, and i wish i hadn't brought it up. Aye, me too. I practically had to sit on my hands to prevent an assault on your intelligence after having read it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Whats the bigger worry? Martins first touch, or the team not being able to create clear goal scoring chance when a team comes to sit back and defend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Martins doesn't need a first touch, his play is about running onto a proper pass and firing it without thinking, if he has to take a first touch something went wrong. Sounds like a well-balanced game he's got there. Thank fuck you're not coaching him. "Run......aaaaand kick! Run........aaaaaand kick! Yeah, bit harder. And don't make the mistake of thinking." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Martin has not been fulfill his 10 m price tag. But considering selling him with Darrent Bent & Ryan Babel is complete dross... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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