Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 They're different types of player anyway. I actually think Martins was just what we needed this season despite my misgivings about him. That's not to say I wouldn't take the money and run though if we had the chance. I can understand where you are coming from there re this season and what we needed, I don't think Berbartov woudl do badly in any team but that's as much supposition as saying Berbartov is only good coz he plays for Spurs. On Martins/Berbartov, they are different types of player - Berbartov is world class and Martins at this point is not! Just my personal opinion, but how anyone can say Martins is a better player/striker whatever - needs their head read. I agree, Berbatov is different class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 They're different types of player anyway. I actually think Martins was just what we needed this season despite my misgivings about him. That's not to say I wouldn't take the money and run though if we had the chance. I think he wasn't what we needed. Of course, with the retirement of Shearer and the long term injury of Owen we obviously needed someone to get us goals. But was it really wise to spend 10m on a player probably far too similar to Owen? We would have been better of investing the money in a partner for Owen, when he is coming back and else sign a backup goal scorer like Viduka (and I am also still sure if we had signed Hasselbaink on a free he would have done a job for us over the season up front). Now we have the problem of a 26m strikeforce who hardly fit together. And either Martins and Owen are simply too expensive to be wasted on the bench. So one of them should be sold to generate money for positions where the team needs strengthening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Seriously, why is the age an issue? If anything, Martins has been playing at a higher standard of football than Berbatov before they joined. You're not serious? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 but how anyone can say Martins is a better player/striker whatever - needs their head read. Someone has been reading the cockney press My opinion is the hype for a guy that has scored 12 league goals "signing of the season" "team of the season' ect ect is amazing you would think Berbatov scored 30 league goals in two consecutive seasons like Shearer did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I hope we don't sell Martins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I hope we don't sell Martins. So do I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I really hope Martins doesnt go. He's the one player in our team capable of doing special things on the pitch. You need someone like that in the team and if he goes who else could we get capable of that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagerstedt Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins has got 6 assists to his name this season which is pretty good, Berbatov surely hasn't got many more than that Two in the league.. What's interesting is that N'Zogbia got three while his "colleague" Duff only managed two! Milner got the most assists for us with a might seven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 They're different types of player anyway. I actually think Martins was just what we needed this season despite my misgivings about him. That's not to say I wouldn't take the money and run though if we had the chance. I think he wasn't what we needed. Of course, with the retirement of Shearer and the long term injury of Owen we obviously needed someone to get us goals. But was it really wise to spend 10m on a player probably far too similar to Owen? We would have been better of investing the money in a partner for Owen, when he is coming back and else sign a backup goal scorer like Viduka (and I am also still sure if we had signed Hasselbaink on a free he would have done a job for us over the season up front). Now we have the problem of a 26m strikeforce who hardly fit together. And either Martins and Owen are simply too expensive to be wasted on the bench. So one of them should be sold to generate money for positions where the team needs strengthening. I agree actually. I was oversimplifying matters in that I think we desperately needed a striker whose goals would keep us up no matter what and given Roeder's contacts (or lack of them) he was probably the best we could get etc. He did help keep us up with his goals so it worked (sort of). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SwissMagpie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 From the evening chronicle Meanwhile, reports today that Juventus are lining up Newcastle's top scorer Oba Martins were played down by the a source close to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I really hope Martins doesnt go. He's the one player in our team capable of doing special things on the pitch. You need someone like that in the team and if he goes who else could we get capable of that? I could easily do without any player doing less occasional "special" things, but rather doing the easy things right on a more consistent basis. And Martins only "special" thing in the league was his wonderstrike against Spurs. If he had put away some of the easier chance presented to him in games like against Pompey etc. then we would have been in a much more comfortable league position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 FFS, Matt Taylor did more special things last season than Martins and he's just a canny player nowhere near the England squad. He's definitely still living off that Spurs strike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 They're different types of player anyway. I actually think Martins was just what we needed this season despite my misgivings about him. That's not to say I wouldn't take the money and run though if we had the chance. I think he wasn't what we needed. Of course, with the retirement of Shearer and the long term injury of Owen we obviously needed someone to get us goals. But was it really wise to spend 10m on a player probably far too similar to Owen? We would have been better of investing the money in a partner for Owen, when he is coming back and else sign a backup goal scorer like Viduka (and I am also still sure if we had signed Hasselbaink on a free he would have done a job for us over the season up front). Now we have the problem of a 26m strikeforce who hardly fit together. And either Martins and Owen are simply too expensive to be wasted on the bench. So one of them should be sold to generate money for positions where the team needs strengthening. I agree actually. I was oversimplifying matters in that I think we desperately needed a striker whose goals would keep us up no matter what and given Roeder's contacts (or lack of them) he was probably the best we could get etc. He did help keep us up with his goals so it worked (sort of). It's the whole "without Martins' goals" we would have gone down, that really annoys me. Of course it is technically correct, but I don't think we would have ever played a season without a recognised striker up front. I am pretty sure any other half decent striker would have secured the necessary amount of points as well - if not even more... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Dyer's goals kept us up by the same token. That's how fucking close we were to the drop in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I know what Ise is saying but in reality, if Martins had got injured, we would have gone down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I know what Ise is saying but in reality, if Martins had got injured, we would have gone down. I don't disagree with that at all. But this was rather down to Martins ending up in being our only recognised striker. That's why NE5/Leazes wasn't totally wrong in saying that we needed another striker. If Martins had injured himself post-January we would have been in big trouble (although Martins didn't really set the world alight in this period at all except of the Sheffield game). And that is why I had rather signed a back up goal getter next to a future partner for Owen last summer for the sum of 10m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I know what Ise is saying but in reality, if Martins had got injured, we would have gone down. I don't disagree with that at all. But this was rather down to Martins ending up in being our only recognised striker. That's why NE5/Leazes wasn't totally wrong in saying that we needed another striker. If Martins had injured himself post-January we would have been in big trouble (although Martins didn't really set the world alight in this period at all except of the Sheffield game). And that is why I had rather signed a back up goal getter next to a future partner for Owen last summer for the sum of 10m. I've agreed with NE5 all season on that matter since it was clear Owen was written off. Not really sure what happened to Martins in feb. Fatigue? Pressure? Tithead? All 3 probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Comapring Martins to a player who is 5 (?) years older than him? Bit unfair like. aye comparing a player who got 11 goals in the league to one that got 12 in the league is a bit unfair. Here's a question then. Do you think Spurs would have finished 5th with Martins in their side, and do you think we'd have finished 13th with Berbatov in ours? Spurs wouldnt finished 5th with Oba in their side because Oba is not the type of player they need.They have Keane and Defoe who are similar players. And yes.I think if Berbatov played for us we wouldnt be in much higher position then where we actually finished.And i'll tell you why Berbatov played this season in a very good team who is playing passing football(not long ball 90min).Berbatov played in a team where his teammates where in great form and everyone was playing at his real abilities. Also Berbatov goals werent something phenomenal like Oba's goal against Tottenham,Berbatov's goals were more product of the style of passing football tottenham are playing all season. If Berbatov played for us this season-with this incompetent manager,with this underperforming teammates,with this shit team who isnt playing anything near "passing" football i think he wouldnt scored more then 10 goals. Most of the Oba's goals were scored not because of some great attacking move or some great passing combination but because of the Oba's pace. People here are underestimating Martins too much imo. Valencia and Juventus wouldnt be intereted in some player whos movement and touch are shocking like alot of people thinks. He is not Pele but he is 22 and he is developing. He can improve his weaknesses and can become better player under the right management People on this forum will sell him at first opportunity for 12m which is mental. I also think every club can cope without every player.There isnt a player on this world who isnt replacable. Thats the case about Oba too. But i'll only consider selling him only if offer bigger then 15m comes for him. Only then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I doubt Valencia and Juventus are interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Wikipedia: Berbatov had a slow start to his Leverkusen career with just 16 goals in his first 67 appearances for the club. He did however play a crucial role in the Champions League during his first season with the club scoring a memorable solo effort against Lyon with an excellent bit of skill, as well as a goal against Liverpool in the quarter finals. He also played a part in the Final against Real Madrid coming on as a substitute for Thomas Brdaric after 38 minutes. In 2001-02 Leverkusen were runners-up in the Bundesliga and the DFB-Pokal. During the 2002-03 Bundesliga season Berbatov established his place as the first-choice forward at Bayer Leverkusen but it wasn't until the 2003-04 season that he really began to shine scoring 16 goals in 24 starts. The following two seasons saw him go from strength to strength, netting another 46 goals including 5 in the Champions League 2004-05 raising awareness of his talent and generating interest from teams throughout Europe. Berbatov, like Drogba, another player who, and I know this might come as a foreign concept to some, improved with age and experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I bet he still had a canny first touch though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I doubt Valencia and Juventus are interested. I know most of the papers are writing bollox but in every lie there is some truth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Wikipedia: Berbatov had a slow start to his Leverkusen career with just 16 goals in his first 67 appearances for the club. He did however play a crucial role in the Champions League during his first season with the club scoring a memorable solo effort against Lyon with an excellent bit of skill, as well as a goal against Liverpool in the quarter finals. He also played a part in the Final against Real Madrid coming on as a substitute for Thomas Brdaric after 38 minutes. In 2001-02 Leverkusen were runners-up in the Bundesliga and the DFB-Pokal. During the 2002-03 Bundesliga season Berbatov established his place as the first-choice forward at Bayer Leverkusen but it wasn't until the 2003-04 season that he really began to shine scoring 16 goals in 24 starts. The following two seasons saw him go from strength to strength, netting another 46 goals including 5 in the Champions League 2004-05 raising awareness of his talent and generating interest from teams throughout Europe. Berbatov, like Drogba, another player who, and I know this might come as a foreign concept to some, improved with age and experience. I don't think anyone is really denying the possibility to improve with age but rather that they can't see this happening with Martins. I am pretty sure Martins has the ability to work on his composure in front of goal (just like Berbatov did, which was the biggest flaw in his game) and maybe his touch. But I can't see him developing a genuine understanding of the game if he wasn't able to learn this in Italy where they coach tactics as much as in nowhere else in the world. And for this he will be never able to really make use of his probably biggest asset, his pace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 In Italy the main thing they teach you is how to defend and defending tactics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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