Juve In For Martins.

[Syrette]

Getting pretty bored of this fucking discussion to be honest (and yes I know I've played my part in it). No-ones going to change anyone's opinion on the man, until he does so himself.

[NUFC06]

Why is there a general feeling that older players can't improve? Yeah there won't be any MAJOR improvements to that specefic area but an improvement is still an improvement, no matter how slight.

 

The trouble with Martins is, the major flaws in his game are things that usually come naturally to players and aren't coached or taught.

 

Bullshit, they can be coached and learned. Unless all footballers are born that way

 

I'm talking about something that comes naturally to players over their development from a young age. Martins doesn't have the same intelligence as the likes of Owen or Berbatov, and he never will. He could spend every day of the next 5 years working with the best coaches on the planet - he won't suddenly grow a good footballing brain.

 

Are you saying Martins doesnt have enough football intelligence???

You can say that about Ameobi mate...

But saying that about Martins...

fucking wept

 

WUM, tbh.

 

The flaws in Martin's game are obvious to see and a football brain that isn't among the best is definitely one of them.

 

utter monkey poo poo

[Howaythelads]

Martins did well in his first season given that he was playing in what was our worst team since promotion.

 

In addition he is not a lone striker, a role he, in effect, mostly played.

 

His season might be summed up by the penalty miss at Everton and the goal at Spurs. Next season no penalty misses just goals like the one at Spurs and Ill be happy.

 

Yes, good post.

 

He's done ok but he's not as fantastic as some are making out. He has a lot of  improving to do, which seems to me to be what people are saying.

[Syrette]

Martins did well in his first season given that he was playing in what was our worst team since promotion.

 

In addition he is not a lone striker, a role he, in effect, mostly played.

 

His season might be summed up by the penalty miss at Everton and the goal at Spurs. Next season no penalty misses just goals like the one at Spurs and Ill be happy.

 

Yes, good post.

 

He's done ok but he's not as fantastic as some are making out. He has a lot of  improving to do, which seems to me to be what people are saying.

 

Nothing wrong with that to be honest.

[Howaythelads]

Getting pretty bored of this fucking discussion to be honest (and yes I know I've played my part in it). No-ones going to change anyone's opinion on the man, until he does so himself.

 

He has to change his opinion of himself before anyone else will change their opinion of him?

 

What's his opinion of himself? Is he a personal friend?

[Howaythelads]

Martins did well in his first season given that he was playing in what was our worst team since promotion.

 

In addition he is not a lone striker, a role he, in effect, mostly played.

 

His season might be summed up by the penalty miss at Everton and the goal at Spurs. Next season no penalty misses just goals like the one at Spurs and Ill be happy.

 

Yes, good post.

 

He's done ok but he's not as fantastic as some are making out. He has a lot of  improving to do, which seems to me to be what people are saying.

 

Nothing wrong with that to be honest.

 

Nowt wrong with most of my posts, tbh. Check out the last one...

[Syrette]

Getting pretty bored of this fucking discussion to be honest (and yes I know I've played my part in it). No-ones going to change anyone's opinion on the man, until he does so himself.

 

He has to change his opinion of himself before anyone else will change their opinion of him?

 

What's his opinion of himself? Is he a personal friend?

 

Alright, badly worded post, meant no-one on here will change anyone else's opinion, the only person who can change anyone's opinion on Obafemi Martins, is Obafemi Martins himself. Goes without saying, I guess.

[NUFC06]

Martins did well in his first season given that he was playing in what was our worst team since promotion.

 

In addition he is not a lone striker, a role he, in effect, mostly played.

 

His season might be summed up by the penalty miss at Everton and the goal at Spurs. Next season no penalty misses just goals like the one at Spurs and Ill be happy.

 

Yes, good post.

 

He's done ok but he's not as fantastic as some are making out. He has a lot of  improving to do, which seems to me to be what people are saying.

 

again you are making things up

nobody said he was fantastic.

And nobody said he was perfect

All we are saying that its stupid to say that at the age of 22 he wont improve the flaws of his game

[Howaythelads]

Getting pretty bored of this fucking discussion to be honest (and yes I know I've played my part in it). No-ones going to change anyone's opinion on the man, until he does so himself.

 

He has to change his opinion of himself before anyone else will change their opinion of him?

 

What's his opinion of himself? Is he a personal friend?

 

Alright, badly worded post, meant no-one on here will change anyone else's opinion, the only person who can change anyone's opinion on Obafemi Martins, is Obafemi Martins himself. Goes without saying, I guess.

 

FFS, 'twas a joke, man......

[Howaythelads]

Martins did well in his first season given that he was playing in what was our worst team since promotion.

 

In addition he is not a lone striker, a role he, in effect, mostly played.

 

His season might be summed up by the penalty miss at Everton and the goal at Spurs. Next season no penalty misses just goals like the one at Spurs and Ill be happy.

 

Yes, good post.

 

He's done ok but he's not as fantastic as some are making out. He has a lot of  improving to do, which seems to me to be what people are saying.

 

again you are making things up

nobody said he was fantastic.

And nobody said he was perfect

All we are saying that its stupid to say that at the age of 22 he wont improve the flaws of his game

 

Anybody know where I can find a smiley thing of a toilet with a turd in it and someone pulling a chain?

[Wullie]

Henry was a top-class player before he signed for Arsenal though. He proved against us in 1997 he had the finishing skills, the pace, the power, great touch, etc.

 

He raped us down the left from what I remember.

 

And Emre and Martins tore a much better Arsenal side apart. One swallow does not make a Champions League tie... or something.

 

But in total Henry was already a well established player before he moved to Arsenal (wasn't he France's best scorer at the WC in 1998?), he only had a couple of poor months at Juve but didn't need work at basic skills at Arsenal to make him a world star.

 

Martins had several years of arguably good coaching at Inter and still has major flaws in his game. I am sceptical about him getting a moment of 'Heureka!' out of a sudden...

 

Was Martins not a well established player? I'd heard of him a long time before we bought him, not bad for a 21 year old.

 

Martins has 11 in 15 for Nigeria too, a pretty good record - an international goals record hardly tells you anything. Do you know who Henry's 3 goals in '98 were against? 1 vs South Africa, 2 vs Saudi Arabia. Don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Henry either - the man is brilliant beyond belief.

 

It isn't about against which teams Henry scored during the world cup the point is rather that he was already a full member of the French squad at a World Cup at home where he actually got games despite his young age.

 

He was just under 21, not that young. Stephane Guivarc'h got games in that squad too, it's nothing to shout about.

 

I don't think Martins will ever develop into anyone as good in Henry - in fact he almost certainly won't because Henry is so good - but I don't think it's so far-fetched to say Henry was not that much better at that sort of age, although obviously Wenger's conversion of him to a striker was what really triggered his development.

 

I totally agree that Martins is not the finished article but I also don't agree that he's not worth what we paid. Not now maybe, but in the future, I think he will be worth that and more. Wenger paid £16m purely for potential in Walcott - and I've seen little to suggest that he'll ever be worth that, but then I don't see Arsenal much and I know how good Wenger is so I think he'll probably get there. I think Martins will too - I definitely think he CAN, hopefully at NUFC. I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far.

[Guest Knightrider]

Agree with Wullie, I've seen enough in Martins to know there is a very good footballer in there who with any luck, will become that footballer here at United because if so, that £10m will look like a bargain, especially if he can score a similar haul of goals in his debut season, every season.

[toontownman]

devoid of a footballing brain is a bit harsh, he obviously has one, its just applicating and disciplining himself to use it.

 

In a similar style to Kluivert he is happier to come deep to collect the ball than run into the right holes upfront, whilst sometimes his awareness seems lacking, i think its just a motivation and discipline issue.

 

For instance his all round play in the first AZ game was immense, at several points this season he has backheeled, passed and flicked to players around him unexpectedly, his hanging back for his second goal against Tallin, which he later repeated in the season was also evidence, although unothadox of an out and out striker that would have been running straight into the goal mouth.

 

These lack of footballing brain comments are nonsense, of course only imho.

[Optimistic Nut]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

[Yorkie]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

 

Now there's someone who isn't a fan of Martins.

 

For one thing, atleast Martins has actually been on the fucking field for more than half the season.

[Optimistic Nut]

Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better.

[Howaythelads]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

 

Now there's someone who isn't a fan of Martins.

 

For one thing, atleast Martins has actually been on the fucking field for more than half the season.

 

Tbf, Kluivert should have played lots of matches up front with Bellamy but shithead didn't have the balls to drop Shearer.

[Wullie]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

 

I respect your opinions Nut, even if I don't agree with you much of the time, but I find that an absolutely astonishing statement to make.

[Guest Knightrider]

I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far.

 

I once listened to a 5 minute interview from Michael Ricketts on John Barnes' Football show talking in length about the techniques Big Sam used to turn him from a lower league player at Wallsall to an England player in the space of a few years and he talked about attention to detail in analysing his game and performances in training, pre and post match, technical coaches appointed to work on his and others' games and by instilling a real hunger and thirst for learning and knowledge. Now Ricketts was always a poor player, but for one season he was immense and that was all down to coaching and an appettitie to work hard to improve. Apply those methods to someone with Martins' talents...

[chicago_shearer]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

 

Now there's someone who isn't a fan of Martins.

 

For one thing, atleast Martins has actually been on the f****** field for more than half the season.

 

Tbf, Kluivert should have played lots of matches up front with Bellamy but shithead didn't have the balls to drop Shearer.

 

Why did Shearer need dropping?  It's a team game, and Shearer's positioning and first touch were excellent.

[NUFC06]

devoid of a footballing brain is a bit harsh, he obviously has one, its just applicating and disciplining himself to use it.

 

In a similar style to Kluivert he is happier to come deep to collect the ball than run into the right holes upfront, whilst sometimes his awareness seems lacking, i think its just a motivation and discipline issue.

 

For instance his all round play in the first AZ game was immense, at several points this season he has backheeled, passed and flicked to players around him unexpectedly, his hanging back for his second goal against Tallin, which he later repeated in the season was also evidence, although unothadox of an out and out striker that would have been running straight into the goal mouth.

 

These lack of footballing brain comments are nonsense, of course only imho.

 

These comments about Martins doesnt have a football brain are coming from people who dont know whats the shape of the football ball.

No surprise that they are talking bollox tbh.

Its like asking George Bush who is Oba Martins

He will be clueless like some of the people on here are.

[Howaythelads]

I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far.

 

I once listened to a 5 minute interview from Michael Ricketts on John Barnes' Football show talking in length about the techniques Big Sam used to turn him from a lower league player at Wallsall to an England player in the space of a few years and he talked about attention to detail in analysing his game and performances in training, pre and post match, technical coaches appointed to work on his and others' games and by instilling a real hunger and thirst for learning and knowledge. Now Ricketts was always a poor player, but for one season he was immense and that was all down to coaching and an appettitie to work hard to improve. Apply those methods to someone with Martins' talents...

 

Fine, but you can't teach vision and awareness.

[Isegrim]

Henry was a top-class player before he signed for Arsenal though. He proved against us in 1997 he had the finishing skills, the pace, the power, great touch, etc.

 

He raped us down the left from what I remember.

 

And Emre and Martins tore a much better Arsenal side apart. One swallow does not make a Champions League tie... or something.

 

But in total Henry was already a well established player before he moved to Arsenal (wasn't he France's best scorer at the WC in 1998?), he only had a couple of poor months at Juve but didn't need work at basic skills at Arsenal to make him a world star.

 

Martins had several years of arguably good coaching at Inter and still has major flaws in his game. I am sceptical about him getting a moment of 'Heureka!' out of a sudden...

 

Was Martins not a well established player? I'd heard of him a long time before we bought him, not bad for a 21 year old.

 

Martins has 11 in 15 for Nigeria too, a pretty good record - an international goals record hardly tells you anything. Do you know who Henry's 3 goals in '98 were against? 1 vs South Africa, 2 vs Saudi Arabia. Don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Henry either - the man is brilliant beyond belief.

 

It isn't about against which teams Henry scored during the world cup the point is rather that he was already a full member of the French squad at a World Cup at home where he actually got games despite his young age.

 

He was just under 21, not that young. Stephane Guivarc'h got games in that squad too, it's nothing to shout about.

 

I don't think Martins will ever develop into anyone as good in Henry - in fact he almost certainly won't because Henry is so good - but I don't think it's so far-fetched to say Henry was not that much better at that sort of age, although obviously Wenger's conversion of him to a striker was what really triggered his development.

 

I totally agree that Martins is not the finished article but I also don't agree that he's not worth what we paid. Not now maybe, but in the future, I think he will be worth that and more. Wenger paid £16m purely for potential in Walcott - and I've seen little to suggest that he'll ever be worth that, but then I don't see Arsenal much and I know how good Wenger is so I think he'll probably get there. I think Martins will too - I definitely think he CAN, hopefully at NUFC. I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far.

 

I knew someone (you) would bring up G'u'iv'arse. ;-)

 

And HTL is totally right. It isn't that any of his critics are suggesting Martins has been poor, but rather that some people are sceptical about his ability to progress in future. That's why I would accept an offer that meant we would recoup the money we paid for him. If he isn't able to get rid of his flaws he will never be worth 10m as he will have far too many off-games that will outweigh his occasional moments of brilliance (and I won't deny he has them, and which is all people - myself included - base their hope on). My concern is rather that Newcastle at the current stage cannot afford to gamble on his future progress. He might come good, but there is also at least imho a big risk that he won't develop any further. So at the moment we have a 26m quid strike force that I can't see being able to work together. So I'd sell either of Martins or Owen to use the cash to rebuild the squad and actually buy a striker that compliments Martins/Owen. Something that already should have been done last summer (with the addition of another backup striker).

[Optimistic Nut]

Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season.

 

Now there's someone who isn't a fan of Martins.

 

For one thing, atleast Martins has actually been on the f****** field for more than half the season.

 

Tbf, Kluivert should have played lots of matches up front with Bellamy but shithead didn't have the balls to drop Shearer.

 

Agree there, there was a month or so spell when Shearer was injured and they looked great together. I remember one game down at Palace where they tore them to shreads. Another goal against Everton where they linked up brilliantly, and in general linked up well. He'd have easily scored 20 had Souness not insisted on Shearer being first-choice, and had he stayed injury-free on top of that, who knows?

[Guest Knightrider]

Nut, Martins last season actually reminds me of Kluivert's year here, only with far more work ethic and less injuries. Kluivert did well goals to games wise just like Martins but most of his performances were poor, shocking at times (just like Martins), and I wasn't one who got on his back and wanted to see more of him. He lost his touch and everything, so again I agree with Wullie.