Juve In For Martins.

[Syrette]

To those who are wanting Martins sold, are you expecting Owen to stay? And if so, what happens next summer if he refuses to sign a new contract with only 1 year left. We currently have a huge amount of players to bring in just to get back to having a threadbare squad like we had last season. Until that is done I would be very against selling any first team or even regular squad players.

It's dependent on the Owen situation, yes. It's also dependent on who else we can get in and how much we can get for Martins.

 

If we get £25-28m for those two, and sign Viduka (Free), Cisse £4m, Bent £12m, Nugent £6m. There's our set of 4 strikers for the new season with £3m to spare.

 

I'd be happy with that to be honest, though Cisse and Nugent would present a slight risk. Bent and Viduka are proven Premiership quality however.

[Guest alex]

If he scores 20 goals next season for us we'll all be happy.

 

So he was just 3 goals off being good enough this season?

Not really. They'd have to be domestic goals this season, so he'd need 9 more of those than last season. Nice try though

[Skirge]

If we sell Martins and get Bent as a partner for Owen we could end up well shat on, as we could lose Owen on the last day of the window and there is nothing we could do to stop it. Owen has a get out clause so no matter what we do he can leave if he wants as long as the fee is met by a Champions League club, say Man Ure make that offer on the last day of the window and we end up having to playing Shola and Bent for half a season.

[Optimistic Nut]

To those who are wanting Martins sold, are you expecting Owen to stay? And if so, what happens next summer if he refuses to sign a new contract with only 1 year left. We currently have a huge amount of players to bring in just to get back to having a threadbare squad like we had last season. Until that is done I would be very against selling any first team or even regular squad players.

It's dependent on the Owen situation, yes. It's also dependent on who else we can get in and how much we can get for Martins.

 

If we get £25-28m for those two, and sign Viduka (Free), Cisse £4m, Bent £12m, Nugent £6m. There's our set of 4 strikers for the new season with £3m to spare.

 

I'd be happy with that to be honest, though Cisse and Nugent would present a slight risk. Bent and Viduka are proven Premiership quality however.

 

I'm not necessarily saying we should go for those players in particular, but those saying we should reject £15m for Martins or whatever need to look at the bigger picture.

[Guest Gemmill]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

 

Yeah no one should point out serious deficiencies in a player's game.  It's tantamount to writing them off.

 

Have a word with yourself ffs.

 

Exactly where the fuck did I say I had a problem with people pointing out flaws?

 

In my opinion it is the zealous desire of some to get rid as soon as possible, that I don't understand. Some on here point out his flaws and leave it at that, but many just completely write him off and express their desire to leave. To each their own. I don't have an issue at all with people pointing out flaws in our players, but I do think it's a bit unfair that so many aren't willing to let the player (in this case) have a chance to eradicate them, especially given the circumstances in this case (new manager, only 22, only just finished his first season).

 

Because people recognise that this might be the one chance we have to get our money back/make a profit on the player.  As he plays more games, and if he doesn't improve, word is going to get out that he's not even worth £10m, never mind anything north of that.  Don't believe the shit you read on here about OMG OBAZ FUCKUN CLASS!111.  It's just not true.

 

In your opinion.

 

If Martins stays and scores 20+ goals next year, will you still want him out if at the end of the day you can still see his deficiencies?

 

We're not in Europe next season so I doubt Martins will be scoring 20+ goals.  If we have the same ratio of poor performances to good next season, then yeah, I think we need to get rid.  Only by that stage, word will be out and we'll not be getting £10m for him.

 

But if Martins scores 20+ goals next year, and you still notice his deficiencies, would you still want to get rid?

 

Do you want to keep asking stupid questions?  Shall we up it to 30 goals?  How about the Golden Boot?

 

How is it stupid? Why can't you answer it? Yes, or no?

 

What do you value more? A decent performance over 90, without scoring, or a poor performance over 90, with a goal (or 2)? What's more important to you?

 

Because a player with deficiencies in his game like Martins has isn't going to be a regular scorer of 20 goals a season long term.  He's going to get found out.  If not for some of the part time dross we've played this season he wouldn't have the 17 he's got.

 

Serious question - how many times have you seen Martins play in the flesh?  That is the only way you can properly judge a player's movement imo.  I'm not playing the "do you go to games" card, but if you're going to try and pin me down with daft questions, I'll throw one back at you with regards to your ability to assess the player we're discussing.

 

I've seen Martins play twice in the flesh. In one game, he was poor, as was the rest of the team, but he was decent enough in the other. I've never said his flaws don't exist though, so I'm not sure what your point is. And fair enough about the part-time thing, though at the end of the day they only account for 4 of his goals (2 against Waregem and 2 against Tallin if memory serves).

 

And you've still not answered the question, no matter how stupid you find it. IF Martins does score 20+ goals next season, but doesn't eradicate his flaws, would you still want him gone? Yes, or no?

 

I'm not answering the question simply because it's a stupid question.  If Shola scores 30 goals next season but still looks like the same semi-retard he always has, should we keep him or not?  Would you answer that question with a straight face?  Shola's not going to score 30 goals next season, and Martins isn't going to score 20. 

 

By the way re the number of times you've seen him play - I thought as much.  If you'd seen him more you wouldn't be asking daft questions about him scoring 20 + goals next year with no Europe.

[johnnypd]

i despair. movement can be improved quite easily given the right conditions, that is under an experienced manager and coaching staff who know what they are doing and the right striker partner/team set up. it is harder to improve a player's first touch, but this a weakness that can be masked by improved movement. drogba's movement and link up play is very good now, but was poor when he first arrived at chelsea, he now knows how to throw his weight around and be truly effective. when he first arrived he had the touch of a rapist. it hasn't actually improved much, just that he knows how to work around this issue, to minimise his weaknesses and emphasise his strengths. do people seriously think Martins can't learn to anticipate passes and run across the width of the pitch? (even tho he does this already, only sporadically rather than consistently)

[Guest Gemmill]

Once thing you wont pick up on the telly is when Oba loses the ball or misplaces a pass he has a tendency to stand still for 10 seconds and thriow his arms in the air, in a hissy fit. Meanwhile the ball is breaking down the other end of play and Oba's about three mile offside.

ok.. i admit he does that.

i just wish people would appreciate more the kid who came and single-handedly saved us from relegation in a team where nobody performed and based on performances we deserved to be relegated.

if any of you has seen Martins at Inter, then you've noticed how he raised his game a lot this season, despite the shite partners, the shite tactics and the clearly clueless attacking style we played. I just think there's much more to come from him and he'll improve even further as we finally have a manager who we can trust.

 

Single handedly saved us from relegation ffs.

[Guest nufc 4 life]

yes  Martins is not the finished article yet, however you can't fail to see he has done brilliantly well to score 17 goals for us in his first season in the EPL. He has done this with as people have already said a shit defence and no support coming from the midfield. He has had to drop very deep to even get the ball and a lot of the time the ball has just been hoofed up to him, he has done his best to get up there with the big defenders and generally does, but he has been played on his own up front many times this season, which is not what he is meant to do. People that are saying at 22 he won't improve our talking absolute rubbish, he has another 8 years to improve his game!!!

 

Hold on to Martins get him a decent partner, if Owen goes we need to get a tall striker in, if Owen stays and Martins stays we still need to get a holding striker in, we could play 4-3-3 which could work, with the right transfers.

 

----------------------------------------------given-----------------------------------------------------

 

-solano/new RB-------taylor/new CB-------Tal Ben Haim------------2 new LB

 

--------------Milner---------------Parker/Emre/new CM?---------------Duff/new LM

 

-------------------------Martins------------------------------Owen--------------------------------

 

-------------------------------New Big striker ala Viduka, Zigic------------------------

[Optimistic Nut]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

[Guest BooBoo]

Call this a generalisation but it seems:

 

Non Match Going Younger Members of this forum= Oba Fans

 

World Weary Match Going Members of this forum= Oba Sceptics.

[Guest BooBoo]

yes  Martins is not the finished article yet, however you can't fail to see he has done brilliantly well to score 17 goals for us in his first season in the EPL. He has done this with as people have already said a s*** defence and no support coming from the midfield. He has had to drop very deep to even get the ball and a lot of the time the ball has just been hoofed up to him, he has done his best to get up there with the big defenders and generally does, but he has been played on his own up front many times this season, which is not what he is meant to do. People that are saying at 22 he won't improve our talking absolute rubbish, he has another 8 years to improve his game!!!

 

Hold on to Martins get him a decent partner, if Owen goes we need to get a tall striker in, if Owen stays and Martins stays we still need to get a holding striker in, we could play 4-3-3 which could work, with the right transfers.

 

----------------------------------------------given-----------------------------------------------------

 

-solano/new RB-------taylor/new CB-------Tal Ben Haim------------2 new LB

 

--------------Milner---------------Parker/Emre/new CM?---------------Duff/new LM

 

-------------------------Martins------------------------------Owen--------------------------------

 

-------------------------------New Big striker ala Viduka, Zigic------------------------

 

That team makes KKs look defensive minded. Against any decent opposition we'd get murdered.

[Guest nufc 4 life]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

then you change it against those sort of teams and play either one Martins or Owen along with a target stiker. Taht's why i put in new CM easpecially with rumours of Parker leaving

[Guest alex]

Call this a generalisation but it seems:

 

Non Match Going Younger Members of this forum= Oba Fans

 

World Weary Match Going Members of this forum= Oba Sceptics.

True in general though. Says a lot imo and I don't go in for the superfan stuff but the one thing being at the game does allow you to appreciate better than those who don't is a player's movement.

[junkhead]

Once thing you wont pick up on the telly is when Oba loses the ball or misplaces a pass he has a tendency to stand still for 10 seconds and thriow his arms in the air, in a hissy fit. Meanwhile the ball is breaking down the other end of play and Oba's about three mile offside.

ok.. i admit he does that.

i just wish people would appreciate more the kid who came and single-handedly saved us from relegation in a team where nobody performed and based on performances we deserved to be relegated.

if any of you has seen Martins at Inter, then you've noticed how he raised his game a lot this season, despite the s**** partners, the s**** tactics and the clearly clueless attacking style we played. I just think there's much more to come from him and he'll improve even further as we finally have a manager who we can trust.

 

Single handedly saved us from relegation ffs.

em sorry.. is it a typo? 

anyway, who saved us from relegation.. was it Roeder? was it Duff? or was it the never say die spirit in the whole team?

[Guest nufc 4 life]

yes  Martins is not the finished article yet, however you can't fail to see he has done brilliantly well to score 17 goals for us in his first season in the EPL. He has done this with as people have already said a s*** defence and no support coming from the midfield. He has had to drop very deep to even get the ball and a lot of the time the ball has just been hoofed up to him, he has done his best to get up there with the big defenders and generally does, but he has been played on his own up front many times this season, which is not what he is meant to do. People that are saying at 22 he won't improve our talking absolute rubbish, he has another 8 years to improve his game!!!

 

Hold on to Martins get him a decent partner, if Owen goes we need to get a tall striker in, if Owen stays and Martins stays we still need to get a holding striker in, we could play 4-3-3 which could work, with the right transfers.

 

----------------------------------------------given-----------------------------------------------------

 

-solano/new RB-------taylor/new CB-------Tal Ben Haim------------2 new LB

 

--------------Milner---------------Parker/Emre/new CM?---------------Duff/new LM

 

-------------------------Martins------------------------------Owen--------------------------------

 

-------------------------------New Big striker ala Viduka, Zigic------------------------

 

That team makes KKs look defensive minded. Against any decent opposition we'd get murdered.

 

i just said it as a possibbility again it can always be changed, i hope people won't just look at the formation, but what i wrote about martins as well lol

[Optimistic Nut]

£15m in for Martins. £6m out for Bellamy?

 

[Skirge]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

Big Sam would never play like that against Mna ure anyway, thats the beauty of a good manager, he will change his system and squad to suit  every game.

[Guest NUFCnutter]

How many times last year was the ball lumped up in the air to him? AT 5ft 7 he is never going to excell at that type of game and I think if Sam can work on the lad's first touch and get a regular strike partnership set up then we will see a lot more goals from him.

We haven't played to his strengths, he's never had a decent partner and the team has struggled. So, all in all he did ok. The bit about his first touch shows a complete lack of understanding about football though imo. Sorry.

How many times last year was the ball lumped up in the air to him? AT 5ft 7 he is never going to excell at that type of game and I think if Sam can work on the lad's first touch and get a regular strike partnership set up then we will see a lot more goals from him.

We haven't played to his strengths, he's never had a decent partner and the team has struggled. So, all in all he did ok. The bit about his first touch shows a complete lack of understanding about football though imo. Sorry.

 

Whatever!

Talk to the hand sister cause the face ain't listening.

 

eh? Sister? 

It was a joke.

 

So are you telling me that a 22 year old cannot improve his game any? So apart for fitness reasons why do professional footballers train? Is Stevie Taylor and James Milner not going to improve? You are mad if you think that Martins cannot improve his game with the correct coaching!

I'm saying his movement and touch won't improve significantly. If you can't grasp that from what I've said already though....

 

SO tell me again why you didn't apply for the Newcastle manager's job when Roeder was sacked resigned. Or the England job when Sven went if you are such a footballing mastermind? 

 

Of course his game can improve ffs

[Guest nufc 4 life]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

Big Sam would never play like that against Mna ure anyway, thats the beauty of a good manager, he will change his system and squad to suit  every game.

 

exaclt my point

[Optimistic Nut]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

Big Sam would never play like that against Mna ure anyway, thats the beauty of a good manager, he will change his system and squad to suit  every game.

 

Even against an average side, Duff & Milner in a midfield 3, with Owen, Martins & another striker would be suicide.

[Guest NUFCnutter]

Call this a generalisation but it seems:

 

Non Match Going Younger Members of this forum= Oba Fans

 

World Weary Match Going Members of this forum= Oba Sceptics.

 

Hate to ruin your generalisation, but I am a season ticket holder and I go to away games too.  Oh and I am 32 and have been going to SJP since about 1981.

[Guest nufc 4 life]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

Big Sam would never play like that against Mna ure anyway, thats the beauty of a good manager, he will change his system and squad to suit  every game.

 

Even against an average side, Duff & Milner in a midfield 3, with Owen, Martins & another striker would be suicide.

 

how if you have a strong defence and Milner and Duff were willing to get back it would be alright think aobut the attacking threat i was using that formation for against the lesser teams inn the EPL though

[Syrette]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

 

Yeah no one should point out serious deficiencies in a player's game.  It's tantamount to writing them off.

 

Have a word with yourself ffs.

 

Exactly where the fuck did I say I had a problem with people pointing out flaws?

 

In my opinion it is the zealous desire of some to get rid as soon as possible, that I don't understand. Some on here point out his flaws and leave it at that, but many just completely write him off and express their desire to leave. To each their own. I don't have an issue at all with people pointing out flaws in our players, but I do think it's a bit unfair that so many aren't willing to let the player (in this case) have a chance to eradicate them, especially given the circumstances in this case (new manager, only 22, only just finished his first season).

 

Because people recognise that this might be the one chance we have to get our money back/make a profit on the player.  As he plays more games, and if he doesn't improve, word is going to get out that he's not even worth £10m, never mind anything north of that.  Don't believe the shit you read on here about OMG OBAZ FUCKUN CLASS!111.  It's just not true.

 

In your opinion.

 

If Martins stays and scores 20+ goals next year, will you still want him out if at the end of the day you can still see his deficiencies?

 

We're not in Europe next season so I doubt Martins will be scoring 20+ goals.  If we have the same ratio of poor performances to good next season, then yeah, I think we need to get rid.  Only by that stage, word will be out and we'll not be getting £10m for him.

 

But if Martins scores 20+ goals next year, and you still notice his deficiencies, would you still want to get rid?

 

Do you want to keep asking stupid questions?  Shall we up it to 30 goals?  How about the Golden Boot?

 

How is it stupid? Why can't you answer it? Yes, or no?

 

What do you value more? A decent performance over 90, without scoring, or a poor performance over 90, with a goal (or 2)? What's more important to you?

 

Because a player with deficiencies in his game like Martins has isn't going to be a regular scorer of 20 goals a season long term.  He's going to get found out.  If not for some of the part time dross we've played this season he wouldn't have the 17 he's got.

 

Serious question - how many times have you seen Martins play in the flesh?  That is the only way you can properly judge a player's movement imo.  I'm not playing the "do you go to games" card, but if you're going to try and pin me down with daft questions, I'll throw one back at you with regards to your ability to assess the player we're discussing.

 

I've seen Martins play twice in the flesh. In one game, he was poor, as was the rest of the team, but he was decent enough in the other. I've never said his flaws don't exist though, so I'm not sure what your point is. And fair enough about the part-time thing, though at the end of the day they only account for 4 of his goals (2 against Waregem and 2 against Tallin if memory serves).

 

And you've still not answered the question, no matter how stupid you find it. IF Martins does score 20+ goals next season, but doesn't eradicate his flaws, would you still want him gone? Yes, or no?

 

I'm not answering the question simply because it's a stupid question.  If Shola scores 30 goals next season but still looks like the same semi-retard he always has, should we keep him or not?  Would you answer that question with a straight face?  Shola's not going to score 30 goals next season, and Martins isn't going to score 20. 

 

By the way re the number of times you've seen him play - I thought as much.  If you'd seen him more you wouldn't be asking daft questions about him scoring 20 + goals next year with no Europe.

 

Shame. To be fair, I never asked you whether he could score that many. Nor did I say he could myself. I asked IF he did, would that change your conception of him, but obviously it wouldn't. Can't force you to answer anything.

[Yorkie]

That system wouldn't work in a million years because you've effectively only got one central-midfielder. Imagine that midfield up against Hargreaves, Carrick & Scholes next season?

 

Big Sam would never play like that against Mna ure anyway, thats the beauty of a good manager, he will change his system and squad to suit  every game.

 

exaclt my point

 

Was it bollocks.

 

Anyhow, i've said enough Martins in the past so i'll just summarise.

 

Decent player at the moment who did a good job last season against all the odds. Will become a better player in the next couple of years. Has his flaws, most notably his movement, but those sort of things can be improved. Still young, and has the potential to be one of the best attackers in the division. Needless selling him yet unless it is daft money. If we're ambitious then we hold onto our best players.

[Optimistic Nut]

What experience do Duff & Milner have in playing central-midfield? What experience do Owen & Martins have of playing in a front three?