Allardyce justifies his 'Bolton like' signings

[KaKa]

Very promising stuff and a pretty exciting read ...

 

 

Plotting a course

for success

 

 

Pre-season preparations are in full swing

 

 

From The Sun, Saturday, Sam Allardyce quoted about the construction of a planning centre for him and his staff at the club's Darsley Park training ground:

 

"The war room we had at Bolton was where we worked out all our strategies and planning.

 

“There would be a staff of 22 in there, comprising coaches, physios, psychologists, masseurs, even the kit man.

 

“Everyone made a contribution and everyone was equal. We could be there three hours sometimes and no one else was allowed in.

 

“We would talk about our players’ strengths and weaknesses, their mental toughness or lack of it, the lot.

 

"We would look at videos, stats and anything relevant. We would also discuss the opposition and examine their players as well.

 

“We would write our objectives for the short and long term on the wall and go back to them at various points of the season to see what we had achieved, where we had gone wrong and what we needed to do. Nothing was left to chance.

 

“Professional football is a huge industry, very important to thousands of people’s lives — particularly in a football-crazy city like Newcastle.

 

“You must not leave any stone unturned if you are going to be successful.

 

“The war room was where we worked it all out and it will be a fundamental part of making Newcastle a team to be reckoned with.

 

“To achieve what I need for Newcastle, we have to do it my way or there’s no point me being here.

 

“I’m used to people laughing and mocking me and then proving them wrong.

 

“At Bolton I was accused of buying mercenaries. But if they had been, they would not have been so committed to the club.

 

“I was criticised for signing old men past their best. Yet those saying that didn’t know what they were talking about.

 

“We signed a World Cup winner in Youri Djorkaeff and he was magnificent for us when no one else was prepared to gamble on him. I brought in Jay-Jay Okocha, Ivan Campo, Kevin Davies and Bruno N’Gotty, all of whom were under 30, and the only one who cost us a fee was N’Gotty at £500,000.

 

“That lot together nowadays would cost you more than £20m and they could all play.

 

“But any manager will tell you the pool of top-class players is getting smaller. Football just is not developing the way it used to.

 

"They used to roll off a production line in Holland. Not any more. Germany is suffering the same as we are in England.

 

“Portugal is the best place for young talent now but we’re all like piranhas trying to get in there.

 

"Africa turns out some phenomenal players, yet they cost a fortune. It means you have to work even harder to get the right players. But I must make Newcastle the place everyone wants to be.”

 

http://www.nufc.com/

 

[Guest trotter58]

You can add Fernando Hierro to that list of quality players but for every decent player he signed for BWFC, there were a couple that didn't make it. Mario Jardel is one that springs to mind. Former European golden boot winner, by the time he reached us he was so fat we re-named him Mario Lardel!

[ohmelads]

You can add Fernando Hierro to that list of quality players but for every decent player he signed for BWFC, there were a couple that didn't make it. Mario Jardel is one that springs to mind. Former European golden boot winner, by the time he reached us he was so fat we re-named him Mario Lardel!

 

About time a Bolton fan came on here. Welcome to the board.

 

Perhaps you could suggest what formation you see him employing next season at Newcastle? Anything from 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 has been suggested. We've signed Viduka, Barton and Rozehnal (Czech centre back) and are targetting Geremi, Beye (Marseille RB & CB), Edmilson and Gudjohnsen (presumably if Arsenal get Martins).

 

I guess it will depend on his signings. Will he buy players to suit his favoured system, or build a system that suits the squad he has inherited? Viduka and Owen would surely spell a two man strike force but perhaps he has other ideas.

[Guest trotter58]

You can add Fernando Hierro to that list of quality players but for every decent player he signed for BWFC, there were a couple that didn't make it. Mario Jardel is one that springs to mind. Former European golden boot winner, by the time he reached us he was so fat we re-named him Mario Lardel!

 

About time a Bolton fan came on here. Welcome to the board.

 

Perhaps you could suggest what formation you see him employing next season at Newcastle? Anything from 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 has been suggested. We've signed Viduka, Barton and Rozehnal (Czech centre back) and are targetting Geremi, Beye (Marseille RB & CB), Edmilson and Gudjohnsen (presumably if Arsenal get Martins).

 

I guess it will depend on his signings. Will he buy players to suit his favoured system, or build a system that suits the squad he has inherited? Viduka and Owen would surely spell a two man strike force but perhaps he has other ideas.

 

You can forget all about 4-4-2 with Big Sam. It's 4-5-1 when defending, switching to 4-3-3 when attacking. For instance he played Anelka as a lone striker at Bolton with Diouff and Davies supporting when we were attacking. Perhaps he bought Viduka because he expects Owen to leave?

[ohmelads]

You can forget all about 4-4-2 with Big Sam. It's 4-5-1 when defending, switching to 4-3-3 when attacking. For instance he played Anelka as a lone striker at Bolton with Diouff and Davies supporting when we were attacking. Perhaps he bought Viduka because he expects Owen to leave?

 

Take it for what it's worth, but Allardyce said today that he "100%" expects Owen to be here come September. Considering how big an issue it is up here I don't think he'd have said that unless he meant it, he's put his arse on the line really. It looks like Martins is the one who may leave with a good chance Gudjohnsen will be his replacement.

 

If Owen stays I don't see him playing in a three man attack. He wouldn't be happy playing there and I don't think it would suit him, either. I think Duff, Dyer, N'Zogbia, Milner (and maybe Martins and Luque too) could potentially play as wing-forwards in that 4-3-3 system but I could never see Owen doing it. He's a predatory finisher who needs to be playing off the shoulder of the last defender.

[KaKa]

trotter58 nice to have you on here.

 

The formation thing is interesting. I think Sam loves to have his 3 central midfielders, and because Owen doesn't really work in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 I think there is a strong possibility that we play the 3-5-2.

 

I remember him playing this formation at Bolton at times. How did it pan out for you guys? Do you recall this at all?

[ohmelads]

trotter58 nice to have you on here.

 

The formation thing is interesting. I think Sam loves to have his 3 central midfielders, and because Owen doesn't really work in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 I think there is a strong possibility that we play the 3-5-2.

 

I remember him playing this formation at Bolton at times. How did it pan out for you guys? Do you recall this at all?

 

Is it really worth changing the whole formation to 3-5-2 just to suit Owen? He's only one player.

 

I was thinking of starting a thread on the formation issue and it's something that nobody is sure about. Allardyce loves his 4-3-3/5-5-1 but how on earth would he fit Owen into that? It's a tough one. The signings and targets don't reveal a whole lot but if he is looking for another midfielder (and intends to keep the ones we've got) then maybe he is getting the extra bodies in for a three man central midfield.

[geordie jamie]

But the one player who will get us the most goals!

[Guest trotter58]

If Owen stays I don't see him playing in a three man attack. He wouldn't be happy playing there and I don't think it would suit him, either. I think Duff, Dyer, N'Zogbia and Luque could potentially play as wing-forwards in that 4-3-3 system but I could never see Owen doing it. He's a predatory finisher who needs to be playing off the shoulder of the last defender.

 

Anelka is also a 'predatory finisher' who plays on the shoulder of the last defender. When we bought him, everyone expected Big Sam to switch to 4-4-2 with Davies and Anelka up front, but instead we got Davies on the right and Diouff playing on the left of a front three. Anelka played a lone striker role and was expected to hold the ball up as Kevin Davies had done before. Big Sam has always played 4-5-1/4-3-3 at every single club he's been at from Blackpool to Notts County and then Bolton. If he was prepared to play Anelka as a lone striker then you can bet he will do the same with Owen! It was a source of constant frustration to most BWFC supporters that Big Sam refused to adopt a more flexible approach!

[KaKa]

If Owen stays I don't see him playing in a three man attack. He wouldn't be happy playing there and I don't think it would suit him, either. I think Duff, Dyer, N'Zogbia and Luque could potentially play as wing-forwards in that 4-3-3 system but I could never see Owen doing it. He's a predatory finisher who needs to be playing off the shoulder of the last defender.

 

Anelka is also a 'predatory finisher' who plays on the shoulder of the last defender. When we bought him, everyone expected Big Sam to switch to 4-4-2 with Davies and Anelka up front, but instead we got Davies on the right and Diouff playing on the left of a front three. Anelka played a lone striker role and was expected to hold the ball up as Kevin Davies had done before. Big Sam has always played 4-5-1/4-3-3 at every single club he's been at from Blackpool to Notts County and then Bolton. If he was prepared to play Anelka as a lone striker then you can bet he will do the same with Owen! It was a source of constant frustration to most BWFC supporters that Big Sam refused to adopt a more flexible approach!

 

Anelka is half decent at holding the ball up though. Owen just isn't physicaaly capable. Allardyce also was familiar with the 3-5-2 at the clubs he has coached in and I think there is a chance he will adopt this system.

 

Ohmelads I think we have quite a few players that would suit that system and so I think it would benefit the whole team and not just Owen.

 

[Guest trotter58]

trotter58 nice to have you on here.

 

The formation thing is interesting. I think Sam loves to have his 3 central midfielders, and because Owen doesn't really work in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 I think there is a strong possibility that we play the 3-5-2.

 

I remember him playing this formation at Bolton at times. How did it pan out for you guys? Do you recall this at all?

 

It's 4-5-1 or nothing with Big Sam. If Anelka can do it, then he'll expect Owen to adapt. One thing that you can expect from Big Sam is discipline both on and off the pitch. Each player is expected to know their job and to do it without question!

[ohmelads]

If Owen stays I don't see him playing in a three man attack. He wouldn't be happy playing there and I don't think it would suit him, either. I think Duff, Dyer, N'Zogbia and Luque could potentially play as wing-forwards in that 4-3-3 system but I could never see Owen doing it. He's a predatory finisher who needs to be playing off the shoulder of the last defender.

 

Anelka is also a 'predatory finisher' who plays on the shoulder of the last defender. When we bought him, everyone expected Big Sam to switch to 4-4-2 with Davies and Anelka up front, but instead we got Davies on the right and Diouff playing on the left of a front three. Anelka played a lone striker role and was expected to hold the ball up as Kevin Davies had done before. Big Sam has always played 4-5-1/4-3-3 at every single club he's been at from Blackpool to Notts County and then Bolton. If he was prepared to play Anelka as a lone striker then you can bet he will do the same with Owen! It was a source of constant frustration to most BWFC supporters that Big Sam refused to adopt a more flexible approach!

 

Jeez I bloody hope not! Imagine Owen as a lone striker playing with his back to goal and holding the ball up. Can't possibly see that happening. Besides, Viduka wasn't bought just to be benched, he's obviously been signed as the skillful target man (when fit). So if Viduka is going to start when fit then there's no chance Owen can possibly play as a lone striker.

 

I see what you're saying about Anelka but even though he's not made for that back-to-goal play he's considerably bigger and stronger than Owen so it's not quite as ridiculous to play him in that role.

 

I do agree with you that he probably has 4-5-1 in mind, I'm just wondering what on earth he intends to do with Owen.

[James]

Owen played on the right of a 433 for Real Madrid did he not?

[Guest Martin]

Owen played on the right of a 433 for Real Madrid did he not?

 

He sure did, and had plenty of success there.

[Karjala]

I'll wait til Allardyce makes all his signings before i judge him, but to be honest, im not that impressed so far, esp in relation to some other signings by other clubs.

[Guest trotter58]

I do agree with you that he probably has 4-5-1 in mind, I'm just wondering what on earth he intends to do with Owen.

 

If he plays Viduka as the lone striker then Owen will be expected to drop back into midfield when the opposition have the ball and then watch as one of your defenders launches it half the length of the pitch to Viduka. The first time that happened to Anelka, he just stood there and shrugged his shoulders as if to say, 'What the f**k am i supposed to do with that?!' In fact it was a source of constant amusement to watch Anelka's body language after he'd held off three or four defenders before laying it off, only to find our midfield still camped out on the edge of our own penalty area!

[Guest leon b]

as long as it's winning football i'll have no complaints.I think bolton were underatted, i was one of the guys to say ''I hate bolton they're crap'' but looking at it sensibly they did play high tempo and good foot ball at times.

 

If sam can get us to be as diciplined as bolton i'd be chuffed.

[Guest Martin]

Horses for courses. I expect Sam to take his tactics to a new level with us.

[Dokko]

The 'War Room' sounds mint. That compared to GR's planning, just wow.

 

These are the changes that will drag this football club into the 21st Century.

 

 

[ohmelads]

Owen played on the right of a 433 for Real Madrid did he not?

 

He may have at the end of his season there, I don't remember. But for the vast majority of that season they played Luxemburgo's failed 'cuadrado magico' (magic square) which was a 4-4-2 diamond formation like the one Sven tried for a while with England.

[Guest leon b]

I'm sure he will to, seems to have the right idea by building a solid foundation rather than thinking let me go for the hollywood signings.

 

im looking for the team spirit to go up 100%

 

how have you guys found team spirit over the last 2 seasons?

[Guest trotter58]

as long as it's winning football i'll have no complaints.I think bolton were underatted, i was one of the guys to say ''I hate bolton they're crap'' but looking at it sensibly they did play high tempo and good foot ball at times.

 

Many BWFC supporters were very disgruntled with the football we played under Big Sam. At best it was functional and regimented, at worst it was absolutely dire. True we were successful but crowds have fallen steadily and in part this can be attributed to the football we played sometimes.

[Lloydie]

Remember the new look Owen has bulked up a bit... He might think he can do a job up front (won't win anything in the air though, and begs the question, what's Viduka for)

[Wullie]

as long as it's winning football i'll have no complaints.I think bolton were underatted, i was one of the guys to say ''I hate bolton they're crap'' but looking at it sensibly they did play high tempo and good foot ball at times.

 

Many BWFC supporters were very disgruntled with the football we played under Big Sam. At best it was functional and regimented, at worst it was absolutely dire. True we were successful but crowds have fallen steadily and in part this can be attributed to the football we played sometimes.

 

What's your stance on cheerleaders, music and those wankers with a flag each?

[ohmelads]

I do agree with you that he probably has 4-5-1 in mind, I'm just wondering what on earth he intends to do with Owen.

 

If he plays Viduka as the lone striker then Owen will be expected to drop back into midfield when the opposition have the ball and then watch as one of your defenders launches it half the length of the pitch to Viduka. The first time that happened to Anelka, he just stood there and shrugged his shoulders as if to say, 'What the f**k am i supposed to do with that?!' In fact it was a source of constant amusement to watch Anelka's body language after he'd held off three or four defenders before laying it off, only to find our midfield still camped out on the edge of our own penalty area!

 

This is one of my fears about Allardyce. He will probably build a squad around his desired formation but some of our better players on paper like Duff and Owen would probably operate better in a 4-4-2.

 

Viduka has everything required for the lone striker role except workrate and that worries me a bit. I think Ameobi can perform well in that role, I remember him giving Arsenal a torrid time as the lone striker once just through his strength and holding it up. There's a good chance he'll be in his place for the first month or so of the season as Viduka returns from the Asia Cup.

 

It's good to have a Bolton fan around who may bring a bit of reality back to the forum. A lot of people are going on as if Allardyce is a genius and every signing he makes is part of some master ultra-sensible plan. He's a big improvement on Roeder but while some of our players will blossom under his management it's likely that some (maybe Owen) won't be suited to it at all.