Ronaldo Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 they are irrelevant because they don't support or contradict anything i said you didn't have the players that we have. Then you start going on about points accumulated??? why? Because it's generally accepted that the position a team finishes is an indication of how good they are. Except of course on 'Planet Newcastle' where much better players produce season after season of failure! during those years you never had; a) an out and out goalscorer, guarenteed to get a goal every two games b) two penetrative wingers who could cross we do, that's what I meant, we have the players to play 4-4-2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 they are irrelevant because they don't support or contradict anything i said you didn't have the players that we have. Then you start going on about points accumulated??? why? Because it's generally accepted that the position a team finishes is an indication of how good they are. Except of course on 'Planet Newcastle' where much better players produce season after season of failure! during those years you never had; a) an out and out goalscorer, guarenteed to get a goal every two games b) two penetrative wingers who could cross we do, that's what I meant, we have the players to play 4-4-2 Remind me again just how successful have you been over the last few seasons with your 4-4-2 system? Big Sam will do it his way. Not the player's way. Not the fan's way. It won't be pretty but it will be effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerocipher Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 they are irrelevant because they don't support or contradict anything i said you didn't have the players that we have. Then you start going on about points accumulated??? why? Because it's generally accepted that the position a team finishes is an indication of how good they are. Except of course on 'Planet Newcastle' where much better players produce season after season of failure! See thats all summed up in 3 easy words. Fat Freddy Shepherd. The calibre of players that we have and have had has been great. FFS and our managers, have been utter shite. If you can't see that, you aren't blind, your just an arsehole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh74 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Personally I think Trotter58 is bang on.I don,t think it matters one bit which players Sam has at his disposal hes always going to play 4-5-1 because thats the only formation he has ever succeeded with.Thats his winning formula and hes going to stick with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 See thats all summed up in 3 easy words. Fat Freddy Shepherd. The calibre of players that we have and have had has been great. FFS and our managers, have been utter s****. If you can't see that, you aren't blind, your just an arsehole. Which position did Freddy Shepherd play then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 all this board needed was another bitter rival fan to add to the collection "well our accumulated points tally is 5th best" "how well have you done playing 4-4-2" "planet newcastle...." ffs nobody gives a shit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exilim Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It's true that Bolton have a bitter chairman and bitter fans, did they ever appreciate what Sam did for them in the past couple of fucking years? He raided notts county when he signed for Bolton and he will raid us in future when he leaves. I don't give a fuck tho seriously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 they are irrelevant because they don't support or contradict anything i said you didn't have the players that we have. Then you start going on about points accumulated??? why? Because it's generally accepted that the position a team finishes is an indication of how good they are. Except of course on 'Planet Newcastle' where much better players produce season after season of failure! the position in which a team finishes has as much, probably more, to do with the manager in charge, than with the players at his disposal. you've had a good manager over the past few seasons, getting results with an average squad of journeymen. and over the past four seasons, we've finished above you twice, once with crap manager(s). agree with the main point tho, that sam will favour a 4-5-1 system, i think it is a fair assumption to make. just as Mourinho sticks to similar formations, with teams lacking flair and favouring workrate, even when he has brilliant players and big budgets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Allardyce did say a few weeks ago that he would pick the formation to suit the players at his disposal, indicating that he may be a bit more flexible about 4-4-2 than his past record might show. One characteristic i noticed of Allardyce's Bolton was a ruthless determination to win. He would set out whatever tactics were best likely to produce a result against particular opposition. If that meant kicking lumps out of opponents or launching the ball into the penalty area at every possible opportunity, then that's what they'd do. It didn't matter to Allardyce how it looked, or what other people thought. To balance things up, if Allardyce felt that their best chance was to keep it on the ground and pass their way through, then they had that option as well. Lots of times, Bolton played some decent stuff, but it was when it suited them to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloydie Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Personally I'm sure we'll be lining up in a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 formation. Allardyce has played it everywhere he went and we won't be different. He believes that it's the formation most likely to win games, and any long term rebuilding of a team will be aimed at producing a team that can play like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 all this board needed was another bitter rival fan to add to the collection "well our accumulated points tally is 5th best" "how well have you done playing 4-4-2" "planet newcastle...." ffs nobody gives a s*** I've presented my case but i'm still waiting for you to justify your comment that our players are 'not a patch' on yours... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It's true that Bolton have a bitter chairman and bitter fans, did they ever appreciate what Sam did for them in the past couple of f****** years? He raided notts county when he signed for Bolton and he will raid us in future when he leaves. I don't give a f*** tho seriously. Read this and then engage your brain before replying: http://www.bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=71699 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you've had a good manager over the past few seasons, getting results with an average squad of journeymen. Yes 'average journeymen' like Jay Jay Ockocha, Youri Djorkaeff, Fernando Hierro, Nicolas Anelka, etc, etc. I thought that Geordies were supposed to know something about football, or are you just the exception? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Owen and Martins would be totally wasted on the flanks of a 4-3-3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you've had a good manager over the past few seasons, getting results with an average squad of journeymen. Yes 'average journeymen' like Jay Jay Ockocha, Youri Djorkaeff, Fernando Hierro, Nicolas Anelka, etc, etc. I thought that Geordies were supposed to know something about football, or are you just the exception? Dont want to push in the middle of an arguement but I have always liked bolton but the press see's the club as the budget get by on a shoe string, up until anelka the club has gone from strenght to strength buying "older" "troubled" "past their best" type signings you cannot say that anything other than a descent manager would have been able to do a good job with some of rthe players recently signed. Certainly I feel that if we had of had SA and you had rodent or souey then I could have seen the same squad knocking eachother out or putting transfer requesting in left right and centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Owen and Martins would be totally wasted on the flanks of a 4-3-3. Back end of the 1996-7 season, Dalglish played all 3 of Asprilla, Shearer & Ferdinand to good effect. Not sure what the midfield three was then. Elliott-Batty-Lee? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you cannot say that anything other than a descent manager would have been able to do a good job with some of rthe players recently signed. Dalglish, Gullitt, Bobby Robson. All decent managers who won things with previous clubs, so why didn't they achieve anything at Newcastle? It's not all down to the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you cannot say that anything other than a descent manager would have been able to do a good job with some of rthe players recently signed. Dalglish, Gullitt, Bobby Robson. All decent managers who won things with previous clubs, so why didn't they achieve anything at Newcastle? It's not all down to the manager. Gullit won an FA Cup with Chelsea, but he faced a relegated Boro in the Final. He took us to the FA Cup Final, and came across a Man Utd in the middle of winning their famous treble. I'd imagine had the opposition been the other way around, he'd have won nowt at Chelsea and an FA Cup for Newcastle. (scary thought that actually! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dalglish, Gullitt, Bobby Robson. All decent managers who won things with previous clubs, so why didn't they achieve anything at Newcastle? It's not all down to the manager. If I knew the answer to that I'd be a very well paid man. But certainly Shepherd hasn't helped. Bobby Robson revealed in his book that Speed, his captain, was sold behind his back and he found out about it the same time as everybody else. Butt was brought in by Shepherd as his replacement and had a shocking season. He scouted Miguel before Euro 2004 and wanted him brought in as the new RB. Shepherd wanted to see him in the tournament first. Sure enough he had a blinder, kept Ferreira out the team, his price doubled and eventually Valencia came in and snapped him up. He's now one of the top right backs in Europe. It's not easy to run a club under a chairman like that. Souness recently came out and said he had very little knowledge of the transfer situation, the chairman did everything. I'm far happier about Shepherd leaving than I am about Allardyce arriving. It's not all down to the manager, but it's no coincidence that under Robson we finished 3rd and under Roeder we finished 14th. Had Robson worked under a decent chairman and come in a few years younger, who knows how far he could have taken us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dalglish came in at the worst time possible. Club turning into a PLC which lead to Keegan leaving, and while he did make some sh*te transfers and played rubbish football, he also signed Given, Dabizas, Speed & Solano who were key players under Robson in getting us to 4th place in the 2001-2 season. And I'd hardly call Robson a failure would you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you cannot say that anything other than a descent manager would have been able to do a good job with some of rthe players recently signed. Dalglish, Gullitt, Bobby Robson. All decent managers who won things with previous clubs, so why didn't they achieve anything at Newcastle? It's not all down to the manager. I didnt say managers = trophies you will have to continue your argument with the poster before. (and I would appreciate a response to all my post and not just an element you may wish to pick on) Bolton have as I've said done massively well but has done so thanks to the system and ways of working brought in by the manager in conjunction with a very supportive chairman. all i was trying to say following on from the bolton chairman comments and the SA reply that it takes a special/competant manager to make the bolton system work robson you cannot denie after the shit we were left in didnt succeed no trophies but champs league and top 5 finishes. As for the rest I agree all came with pedegree and bombed here and I'm the first to admit not one element of a club can pull the rest of the club up. With us the issue has been the will of the fans and the weakness of the chairman to stay strong with a manager in light of poor performances. SA has worked wonders at bolton and I would be ashamed of any bolton fan to say he hasnt done alot but he has never had the pressure to win things as he will be expected to here due to the fact he did so much with so little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I didnt say managers = trophies you will have to continue your argument with the poster before. (and I would appreciate a response to all my post and not just an element you may wish to pick on) Bolton have as I've said done massively well but has done so thanks to the system and ways of working brought in by the manager in conjunction with a very supportive chairman. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the central point of your argument is that it takes a decent manager to get the best out of players. In addition, our players are 'not a patch' on yours, according to one clown. So in other words, you've had great managers and great players but still achieved nothing! The reality is that the whole system needs to work from top to bottom to get the best results but to imply that we have only achieved success because of Big Sam would be wrong. There are plenty of people behind the scenes, including Sammy Lee and all of the current coaching staff, who have played their part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exilim Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It's true that Bolton have a bitter chairman and bitter fans, did they ever appreciate what Sam did for them in the past couple of f****** years? He raided notts county when he signed for Bolton and he will raid us in future when he leaves. I don't give a f*** tho seriously. Read this and then engage your brain before replying: http://www.bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=71699 And read the comments at the bottom of the page, stop moaning and be grateful to sam for getting Bolton into the prem. Why am i even reading an article by Richard McCormick who condemns allardyce in every of his stories? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 So in other words, you've had great managers and great players but still achieved nothing! Are there a load of posts I can't see or something. WHo on earth has said we've had great managers??!! Almost all Newcastle fans agree that Souness and Roeder were very poor appointments and Gullit and Dalglish were very unpopular as well. The only good manager we've had was Bobby Robson and he finished 4th, 3rd and 5th. He might not have a trophy to show for it but I would call finishing 3rd ahead of Liverpool and Chelsea a successful season for 99% of the clubs in this country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 And read the comments at the bottom of the page, stop moaning and be grateful to sam for getting Bolton into the prem. Stop moaning?! That's rich coming from a Newcastle fan! If there was a trophy awarded for the most fickle fans in the Prem, you lot would win it every season, although i wouldn't put it past you to f**k that up as well and blame it on Freddy Shepherd! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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