Everything falling into place?

[Baggio]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

Your argument is pie in the sky thinking and not based on realism. Yes we would prefer top younger defenders but at this moment in time following two years of inept leadership they won't come. Allardyce wanted Haim but he chose Chelsea. FFS even golden oldie Sammi Hypia turned us down. So which top defenders did you have in mind? Please don't hark to the past when we signed Woodgate as an example. That is no use to us at this moment in  time.

 

Right now, which top young defender should we be buying? John Terry? Maybe where you live in Zumba Bumba land you might think it's a possibility?

 

 

Whatever Ashley does he won't be happy, simply because it's not Shepherd.

 

He was moaning that he might buy Ronaldinho and Deco the other week ffs.

 

And exactly how many people - including you - have moaned about buying "trophy players "

 

You have moaned to me on numerous occasions that we didn't buy Miguel instead of Carr ?

 

What is the difference between buying Carr instead of Miguel, and these cheap foreigners that we are hunting right now instead of a proven quality player for a fee proportionate to his talent and age ? Accepting the fact that we now are supposed to have someone with money and more business expertise and are better than the old board . So is it wrong to have more expectation.

What about my comment that Ashley came in knowing about the debt and wrote off the debt, or if he didn't then he isn't so astute as you are trusting him to be ?

 

If you think I'm applying double standards, which I'm not my stance is the same as always ie I don't believe in this trophy signing bollocks I think quality is quality and without it you are nowhere so you have to try and get it , but you won't get more of a double standard than what I've posted above. I could equally say that numerous people on here are now applying standards of consideration and understanding to Ashley that they never gave Shepherd and Hall, who had proved they at least had ambition for the club.

 

I've nowt to prove to anyone ref your daft comment about only being happy if its Shepherd, I sold Ashley my shares. But right now, having seen two good managers leave this club in the past, I know when I see the danger signs. Do you ?

 

 

 

Beause we had the money to buy Miguel since we bid £20+ million for Rooney perhaps?

 

Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?

 

show me where I have ever said we should buy players who don't want to come to the club. As its one of the most important things I've always preached in a players make-up, far more than "technical ability", you won't.

 

 

 

You've agreed with SP60'sH's comments that the old board would have tried to bribe them with more money to come here ffs!

 

Even though they've said they don't want to.

 

Btw you didn't answer this...>"Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?"

[NE5]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

[Baggio]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

 

They've been in charge 2 weekss and you've already made your mind up that they haven't got any money to spend.

 

How are you going to feel if they go out and buy baines and this Drago fella? Will that make you happy to see them spending money?

[NE5]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

Your argument is pie in the sky thinking and not based on realism. Yes we would prefer top younger defenders but at this moment in time following two years of inept leadership they won't come. Allardyce wanted Haim but he chose Chelsea. FFS even golden oldie Sammi Hypia turned us down. So which top defenders did you have in mind? Please don't hark to the past when we signed Woodgate as an example. That is no use to us at this moment in  time.

 

Right now, which top young defender should we be buying? John Terry? Maybe where you live in Zumba Bumba land you might think it's a possibility?

 

 

Whatever Ashley does he won't be happy, simply because it's not Shepherd.

 

He was moaning that he might buy Ronaldinho and Deco the other week ffs.

 

And exactly how many people - including you - have moaned about buying "trophy players "

 

You have moaned to me on numerous occasions that we didn't buy Miguel instead of Carr ?

 

What is the difference between buying Carr instead of Miguel, and these cheap foreigners that we are hunting right now instead of a proven quality player for a fee proportionate to his talent and age ? Accepting the fact that we now are supposed to have someone with money and more business expertise and are better than the old board . So is it wrong to have more expectation.

What about my comment that Ashley came in knowing about the debt and wrote off the debt, or if he didn't then he isn't so astute as you are trusting him to be ?

 

If you think I'm applying double standards, which I'm not my stance is the same as always ie I don't believe in this trophy signing bollocks I think quality is quality and without it you are nowhere so you have to try and get it , but you won't get more of a double standard than what I've posted above. I could equally say that numerous people on here are now applying standards of consideration and understanding to Ashley that they never gave Shepherd and Hall, who had proved they at least had ambition for the club.

 

I've nowt to prove to anyone ref your daft comment about only being happy if its Shepherd, I sold Ashley my shares. But right now, having seen two good managers leave this club in the past, I know when I see the danger signs. Do you ?

 

 

 

Beause we had the money to buy Miguel since we bid £20+ million for Rooney perhaps?

 

Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?

 

show me where I have ever said we should buy players who don't want to come to the club. As its one of the most important things I've always preached in a players make-up, far more than "technical ability", you won't.

 

 

 

You've agreed with SP60'sH's comments that the old board would have tried to bribe them with more money to come here ffs!

 

Even though they've said they don't want to.

 

Btw you didn't answer this...>"Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?"

 

yes I did. You chopped it out

 

You aren't living in the real world Baggio, if you really think players will go to a club for less money than somewhere else.

 

 

[NE5]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

 

They've been in charge 2 weekss and you've already made your mind up that they haven't got any money to spend.

 

How are you going to feel if they go out and buy baines and this Drago fella? Will that make you happy to see them spending money?

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the shite board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

I haven't made my mind up at all BTW, I read what Allardyce said and didn't put rose tinted specs on when I read it. Maybe it was a shock tactic that worked, but it shouldn't be like that, if it is indeed a sign of things to come, or he is going to spend his career as Newcastle battling for cash, then he will walk.

 

 

[Mick]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

[Baggio]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

Your argument is pie in the sky thinking and not based on realism. Yes we would prefer top younger defenders but at this moment in time following two years of inept leadership they won't come. Allardyce wanted Haim but he chose Chelsea. FFS even golden oldie Sammi Hypia turned us down. So which top defenders did you have in mind? Please don't hark to the past when we signed Woodgate as an example. That is no use to us at this moment in  time.

 

Right now, which top young defender should we be buying? John Terry? Maybe where you live in Zumba Bumba land you might think it's a possibility?

 

 

Whatever Ashley does he won't be happy, simply because it's not Shepherd.

 

He was moaning that he might buy Ronaldinho and Deco the other week ffs.

 

And exactly how many people - including you - have moaned about buying "trophy players "

 

You have moaned to me on numerous occasions that we didn't buy Miguel instead of Carr ?

 

What is the difference between buying Carr instead of Miguel, and these cheap foreigners that we are hunting right now instead of a proven quality player for a fee proportionate to his talent and age ? Accepting the fact that we now are supposed to have someone with money and more business expertise and are better than the old board . So is it wrong to have more expectation.

What about my comment that Ashley came in knowing about the debt and wrote off the debt, or if he didn't then he isn't so astute as you are trusting him to be ?

 

If you think I'm applying double standards, which I'm not my stance is the same as always ie I don't believe in this trophy signing bollocks I think quality is quality and without it you are nowhere so you have to try and get it , but you won't get more of a double standard than what I've posted above. I could equally say that numerous people on here are now applying standards of consideration and understanding to Ashley that they never gave Shepherd and Hall, who had proved they at least had ambition for the club.

 

I've nowt to prove to anyone ref your daft comment about only being happy if its Shepherd, I sold Ashley my shares. But right now, having seen two good managers leave this club in the past, I know when I see the danger signs. Do you ?

 

 

 

Beause we had the money to buy Miguel since we bid £20+ million for Rooney perhaps?

 

Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?

 

show me where I have ever said we should buy players who don't want to come to the club. As its one of the most important things I've always preached in a players make-up, far more than "technical ability", you won't.

 

 

 

You've agreed with SP60'sH's comments that the old board would have tried to bribe them with more money to come here ffs!

 

Even though they've said they don't want to.

 

Btw you didn't answer this...>"Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?"

 

yes I did. You chopped it out

 

You aren't living in the real world Baggio, if you really think players will go to a club for less money than somewhere else.

 

 

 

I didn't chop it out, you editied your post.

 

As for players not going to clubs for less money, didn't Darren bent go to Spurs who have a strict wage structure over West Ham who offer crazy wages?

 

Perhaps it's becaue he wants European football?

[NE5]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

Your argument is pie in the sky thinking and not based on realism. Yes we would prefer top younger defenders but at this moment in time following two years of inept leadership they won't come. Allardyce wanted Haim but he chose Chelsea. FFS even golden oldie Sammi Hypia turned us down. So which top defenders did you have in mind? Please don't hark to the past when we signed Woodgate as an example. That is no use to us at this moment in  time.

 

Right now, which top young defender should we be buying? John Terry? Maybe where you live in Zumba Bumba land you might think it's a possibility?

 

 

Whatever Ashley does he won't be happy, simply because it's not Shepherd.

 

He was moaning that he might buy Ronaldinho and Deco the other week ffs.

 

And exactly how many people - including you - have moaned about buying "trophy players "

 

You have moaned to me on numerous occasions that we didn't buy Miguel instead of Carr ?

 

What is the difference between buying Carr instead of Miguel, and these cheap foreigners that we are hunting right now instead of a proven quality player for a fee proportionate to his talent and age ? Accepting the fact that we now are supposed to have someone with money and more business expertise and are better than the old board . So is it wrong to have more expectation.

What about my comment that Ashley came in knowing about the debt and wrote off the debt, or if he didn't then he isn't so astute as you are trusting him to be ?

 

If you think I'm applying double standards, which I'm not my stance is the same as always ie I don't believe in this trophy signing bollocks I think quality is quality and without it you are nowhere so you have to try and get it , but you won't get more of a double standard than what I've posted above. I could equally say that numerous people on here are now applying standards of consideration and understanding to Ashley that they never gave Shepherd and Hall, who had proved they at least had ambition for the club.

 

I've nowt to prove to anyone ref your daft comment about only being happy if its Shepherd, I sold Ashley my shares. But right now, having seen two good managers leave this club in the past, I know when I see the danger signs. Do you ?

 

 

 

Beause we had the money to buy Miguel since we bid £20+ million for Rooney perhaps?

 

Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?

 

show me where I have ever said we should buy players who don't want to come to the club. As its one of the most important things I've always preached in a players make-up, far more than "technical ability", you won't.

 

 

 

You've agreed with SP60'sH's comments that the old board would have tried to bribe them with more money to come here ffs!

 

Even though they've said they don't want to.

 

Btw you didn't answer this...>"Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?"

 

yes I did. You chopped it out

 

You aren't living in the real world Baggio, if you really think players will go to a club for less money than somewhere else.

 

 

 

I didn't chop it out, you editied your post.

 

As for players not going to clubs for less money, didn't Darren bent go to Spurs who have a strict wage structure over West Ham who offer crazy wages?

 

Perhaps it's becaue he wants European football?

 

I really don't know. Maybe he realises West Ham are a shite club or something, you can't say that about Newcastle though can you ?

 

As Newcastle are a bigger and better club than Spurs, and West Ham, why didn't we go for him instead of those 2 ?

 

 

[Baggio]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

[NE5]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

mackems.gif

 

and the 30-odd before that

 

What a shame all those 50,000 idiots went to watch such mediocrity every home game, nowt like the crowds in those glory packed pre-1992 days eh  mackems.gif

 

 

[NE5]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

[Baggio]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

Your argument is pie in the sky thinking and not based on realism. Yes we would prefer top younger defenders but at this moment in time following two years of inept leadership they won't come. Allardyce wanted Haim but he chose Chelsea. FFS even golden oldie Sammi Hypia turned us down. So which top defenders did you have in mind? Please don't hark to the past when we signed Woodgate as an example. That is no use to us at this moment in  time.

 

Right now, which top young defender should we be buying? John Terry? Maybe where you live in Zumba Bumba land you might think it's a possibility?

 

 

Whatever Ashley does he won't be happy, simply because it's not Shepherd.

 

He was moaning that he might buy Ronaldinho and Deco the other week ffs.

 

And exactly how many people - including you - have moaned about buying "trophy players "

 

You have moaned to me on numerous occasions that we didn't buy Miguel instead of Carr ?

 

What is the difference between buying Carr instead of Miguel, and these cheap foreigners that we are hunting right now instead of a proven quality player for a fee proportionate to his talent and age ? Accepting the fact that we now are supposed to have someone with money and more business expertise and are better than the old board . So is it wrong to have more expectation.

What about my comment that Ashley came in knowing about the debt and wrote off the debt, or if he didn't then he isn't so astute as you are trusting him to be ?

 

If you think I'm applying double standards, which I'm not my stance is the same as always ie I don't believe in this trophy signing bollocks I think quality is quality and without it you are nowhere so you have to try and get it , but you won't get more of a double standard than what I've posted above. I could equally say that numerous people on here are now applying standards of consideration and understanding to Ashley that they never gave Shepherd and Hall, who had proved they at least had ambition for the club.

 

I've nowt to prove to anyone ref your daft comment about only being happy if its Shepherd, I sold Ashley my shares. But right now, having seen two good managers leave this club in the past, I know when I see the danger signs. Do you ?

 

 

 

Beause we had the money to buy Miguel since we bid £20+ million for Rooney perhaps?

 

Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?

 

show me where I have ever said we should buy players who don't want to come to the club. As its one of the most important things I've always preached in a players make-up, far more than "technical ability", you won't.

 

 

 

You've agreed with SP60'sH's comments that the old board would have tried to bribe them with more money to come here ffs!

 

Even though they've said they don't want to.

 

Btw you didn't answer this...>"Why did you defend Shepherd for signing the cheaper option in Carr but seem happy to slag the new board off for getting in cheaper players rather blowing money on players that don't want to come here anyway?"

 

yes I did. You chopped it out

 

You aren't living in the real world Baggio, if you really think players will go to a club for less money than somewhere else.

 

 

 

I didn't chop it out, you editied your post.

 

As for players not going to clubs for less money, didn't Darren bent go to Spurs who have a strict wage structure over West Ham who offer crazy wages?

 

Perhaps it's becaue he wants European football?

 

I really don't know. Maybe he realises West Ham are a s**** club or something, you can't say that about Newcastle though can you ?

 

As Newcastle are a bigger and better club than Spurs, and West Ham, why didn't we go for him instead of those 2 ?

 

 

 

Because Allardyce didn't want him and thought he was too similar to Owen and Martins perhaps?

 

Who's to say the players we've looked at are involved with clubs that make Newcastle look shit in comparison?

[Mick]

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

I'll make another guess, Allardyce will not get sacked a few games into the season if we finish 4th, 3rd then 5th, he certainly will not be told that he's on his last year after doing that.

[Baggio]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

Obviously not considering I said regular European qualification which we wouldn't get once from coming ninth unless the teams above us didn't want the Intertoto, or that we get into 10 FA cup finals in a row.

[Mick]

 

mackems.gif

 

and the 30-odd before that

 

What a shame all those 50,000 idiots went to watch such mediocrity every home game, nowt like the crowds in those glory packed pre-1992 days eh  mackems.gif

 

 

 

Them 30 odd years were not good enough and that 50,000 was closer to 52,000 the season before.

[Mick]

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

I'm sure he mentioned getting into Europe regularly, we'll not do that from 9th unless we get to cup finals regularly, something that you should be happy with.

[NE5]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

Obviously not considering I said regular European qualification which we wouldn't get once from coming ninth unless the teams above us didn't want the Intertoto, or that we get into 10 FA cup finals in a row.

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

 

They've been in charge 2 weekss and you've already made your mind up that they haven't got any money to spend.

 

How are you going to feel if they go out and buy baines and this Drago fella? Will that make you happy to see them spending money?

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

I haven't made my mind up at all BTW, I read what Allardyce said and didn't put rose tinted specs on when I read it. Maybe it was a shock tactic that worked, but it shouldn't be like that, if it is indeed a sign of things to come, or he is going to spend his career as Newcastle battling for cash, then he will walk.

 

 

 

is it really ALL about league finishes though? surely there has to be SOME element of thought paid to reducing debt, building a squad with free signings and relatively low level signings so that we can progress as a team, looking at defence aswell as attack, its all very well spunking big on attacking players to make up for our lack of quality at the back, and lack of quality in the management team, but isnt it better to make sure all the core elements are in place first? to be honest it sounds to me like you were so traumatised by the pre 1992 era, that after things have gotten better under the halls/shepherds you're just reluctant to let go, things change man, clubs move on, sheperd was a cretin and we're lucky to be rid of him, there are so many things that matter more than 'releasing funds'

 

like a lot of people have said before me, give them a chance man

[Baggio]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

Obviously not considering I said regular European qualification which we wouldn't get once from coming ninth unless the teams above us didn't want the Intertoto, or that we get into 10 FA cup finals in a row.

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

 

Who said top 4?

 

I'd hope for us to finish top 7 in the league on a regular basis, especially as we're the current holders of the "5th best over the past decade" trophy.

 

As long as they don't sack a manager after a few games into the season and replace him with 2 awful managers, while putting the club into debt by throwing money at the problem instead of realising you've fucked up and getting someone else in instead.

[NE5]

Invicta_Toon, that's utter s****!!

 

I wouldn't want my midfielders to be over thirty, but given that good defending is much more about positioning and timing than physical ability, I actually would prefer having some experienced over-30 defenders.

 

After all Bramble and Onyewu both demontrated that being young and strong means nothing if you are always getting caught out of position.

 

Paolo Maldini is still going strong at 39, Nesta is 31, Cannavarro and Materrazzi are 33, Thuram is 35, Gallas is just turning 30, Desailly started for Chelsea until he was 33, Laurent Blanc and Frank LeBoeuf both were effective into their 30s, Baresi played for Milan until he was 37, Costacurta until he was 40....anyway, you get my point.

 

When it comes to defenders, old is not necessarily bad, and arguably better than young and inexperienced.

 

This post rates close to 10/10.  I can guarantee no detractor will have the balls to debate or dispute it on it's own merits but may well hark back to the days before Shepherd and Hall as a crutch defence and attempt to divert the issues addressed.

 

 

You would be wrong then.

 

I can guarantee that no detractor, especially those who weren't around pre - 1992 and think that NUFC have always won trophies galore and the Halls and Shepherd are responsible for bringing an end to decades of glory, would have the balls to dispute that a young quality defender is just as good a buy as an older quality defender, as he can spend his career with you, but whether they are young or old, you have to be prepared to pay a fee if they are under contract. And the competition will be hot if they are good, and the competition will not be so hot if they are not so good.

 

And if they are good, they won't sign for clubs that they think are not going to be successful, or clubs that offer less money than someone else.

 

We did quite well to sign Woodgate. For big money. There was also unknown, or cheap foreigners over the years such as Dumas, Marcelino, Goma, Boumsong, Babayaro, Pistone, Charvet, and younger players such as Bramble, O'Brien, Griffin, as part of a "plan" for those who think everybody but us has a "plan". Lets hope these new defenders are better than most of that little lot, the vast majority of whom were celebrated when arrived because we needed defenders.

 

The bottom line, is that if you want quality, you invariably pay, either with a transfer fee or in wages. Woodgate is the absolute proof. Or rather, if you don't, then your chances of success - depending on your ambition for the club - is seriously diminished.

 

But - at least in terms of the ones who we paid money for, they tried, and backed the manager.

 

 

 

I cant fault that. I do think there is evidence though that Allardyce can get good players for small amounts or on a free. We are lucky to have him and we both know who to thank.

 

As I've said earlier, he's said he can't get the players he wants because we have no European football so it makes sense if he's looking to bring in players that can get us into Europe on short term contracts so he can try for the players he wants in January/next summer.

 

Dismissing people because they're free is stupid when nearly everyone would have taken Campbell and Distin under the same circumstances.

 

Spending money on players you don't want to keep numpties on messageboards happy is not the way forward either, both manager and chairman have said the money is there so I really can't see what your problem is, and before you start I couldn't care less about Shepherd or Hall now, they're history and Ashley will get my full support until I think things are going wrong, that's not 2 weeks after taking over either.

 

I think numpties on message boards - or anywhere for that matter - are people who think that success can be obtained without spending money, people who slate the last board for not spending cash despite spending bucketfuls and are now saying not spending any is the way forward, people who think having a DOF cures all your ills, and biggest of all people who think all you need is a "plan" to be successful and we haven't had one having played in the Champions League, europe regularly and reached a couple of Cup Finals in the last decade.

 

There are 2 possibilities here

 

One is that Ashley came in and knew it would cost 200m quid to buy the club and clear the debt. If this is the case, the slate is clean and he has written this money off and is running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

Two is that he didn't, meaning he's not a shrewd as people are making out ?

 

And another 3rd option, which Vic touched on, is that Allardyce is still thinking in Bolton mode, and not high enough for Newcastle.

 

Which is it ? bear in mind his comment about "they would be stupid not to back me now"

 

 

 

He's said he's got money but the players he wants want come because we have no European football - You seem to be ignoring this and trying to get it through to you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Do you think Allardyce is lying?

 

If you look at our dealings in the past we managed to sweeten the lack of Euopean/Champions League football through grossly exaggerated wages and minimum release clauses (means to an end).

 

If Mort/Ashley/Sam have put a stop to this and offered a fair wage but no 'compensation wages' as it were then it has to be a good thing and falls in the middle of your two arguments.

 

So I wouldn't say Sam is lying, but under the Freddy regime I reckon one or two of these players would have been persuaded to sign due to our 'ambtion'.

 

 

Be careful you aren't labelled a Shepherd lover or anything else similarly daft, simply for pointing out something which is a very real possibility.

 

 

 

And you think paying over the odds in terms of wages is a good thing? It's one of the contributing factors as to why this club doesn't make a profit.

 

I suppose it was a good idea to pay Luque a bigger wage to make up for our lack of European football? Shame we offered him so much that nobody will take him of our hands, not even on loan.

 

 

I did insinuate not to use the extreme case. I should have known someone would. By the other extreme I could say if we carry on not paying the going rate and buying cheap players, as you seem to want to do, we would end up like the mackems have been [which is where we were right alongside them before the Halls and Shepherd], Sheff Wed, Wolves etc

 

 

 

How do you work out we'll end up like Sheffied Wed and Wolves when we've already signed the likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith and Geremi this summer?

 

All on good wages no doubt.

 

You've stopped reading my comments properly. I have said a few times that Allardyce has done very well with his limited resources - geddit ?

 

How much have we made through sales again ?

 

 

 

They've been in charge 2 weekss and you've already made your mind up that they haven't got any money to spend.

 

How are you going to feel if they go out and buy baines and this Drago fella? Will that make you happy to see them spending money?

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

I haven't made my mind up at all BTW, I read what Allardyce said and didn't put rose tinted specs on when I read it. Maybe it was a shock tactic that worked, but it shouldn't be like that, if it is indeed a sign of things to come, or he is going to spend his career as Newcastle battling for cash, then he will walk.

 

 

 

is it really ALL about league finishes though? surely there has to be SOME element of thought paid to reducing debt, building a squad with free signings and relatively low level signings so that we can progress as a team, looking at defence aswell as attack, its all very well spunking big on attacking players to make up for our lack of quality at the back, and lack of quality in the management team, but isnt it better to make sure all the core elements are in place first? to be honest it sounds to me like you were so traumatised by the pre 1992 era, that after things have gotten better under the halls/shepherds you're just reluctant to let go, things change man, clubs move on, sheperd was a cretin and we're lucky to be rid of him, there are so many things that matter more than 'releasing funds'

 

like a lot of people have said before me, give them a chance man

 

Can't believe the furore just because myself - and a few others - have expressed concern about Allardyce's own words to be honest. Anyone would think that people were pretending he didn't say them for some reason. Can't think why.

 

If anyone knows the true situation as regarding backing of the manager, its him.

 

 

[Mowen]

<snip>

Who said top 4?

 

I'd hope for us to finish top 7 in the league on a regular basis, especially as we're the current holders of the "5th best over the past decade" trophy.

 

Don't Villa have that now, based on league finishes? Or did we just hold them off at the death? Seem to remember it being brought up at the time.

[NE5]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

Obviously not considering I said regular European qualification which we wouldn't get once from coming ninth unless the teams above us didn't want the Intertoto, or that we get into 10 FA cup finals in a row.

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

Who said top 4?

 

I'd hope for us to finish top 7 in the league on a regular basis, especially as we're the current holders of the "5th best over the past decade" trophy.

 

As long as they don't sack a manager after a few games into the season and replace him with 2 awful managers, while putting the club into debt by throwing money at the problem instead of realising you've fucked up and getting someone else in instead.

 

There is no guarantee they won't appoint a shit manager. There is no guarantee ManU won't replace Alex Ferguson with a shit manager. There is no guarantee that it won't happen 6 games into the season either. Football works in this way. People respond to results, unless of course you want to keep a shit manager till the end of the season when you think he should go in October and end up being relegated ? Do you ?

 

This is Realistic, and totally unrealistic not to realise it.  And - as has been said - despite us not having a plan or any other such cliches, about 87 clubs in the country would swap their "plan" for ours over the last decade.

 

I would rather have 2 top 4 finishes, 1 5th place and a couple of mid table ones than constant 7th place. 7th is nowhere, or rather, its "only" the intertoto cup, and qualifying for europe by the "back door". Lots of people have had a lot to say about that. I would hope that now the people have gone that were holding us back so much, you would aim higher, and at least hope to match what the old board did.

 

Wouldn;t you agree ?

 

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

 

Getting into the top 4 would be brilliant but it will take a lot of hard work, let's hope that we do it, maybe then you'll be able to move on.

 

Shepherd has gone and I'm over the moon about that.  The fact that he's gone doesn't mean we're going to automatically do better, that goes without saying but I'm not going to worry about things going wrong before they do, especially when things are going in the right direction, you need to relax a bit, doom and gloom from you doesn't mean things will not get better so try and see some positives and move on.

[Baggio]

 

Notwithstanding Ive no idea how good this Drago is, and I'm not sure how good I think Baines is, then if they back the manager, of course.

 

My expectation is for them to at least match the s**** board that they replaced, by qualifying for the Champions League, getting a few top 4 finishes, playing regularly in europe. Wouldn't you agree that a better board should prove it by doing better or not ?

 

 

 

Shepherds league finishes for completed seasons are 14th x 1, 13th x 3, 11 x 2, 7th x 1, 5th x 1, 4th x 1 & 3rd x 1, I'll guess that we'll beat at least 6 of those league placings in the coming season, that will be better than 60% of our league finishes over the last 10 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Champions League would be nice but it isn't so great if we have more lower half finishes than top half to go with it, if they can get us into Europe regular and with no bottom half finishes I'll be happy, if they don't have to run up ridiculous debts with no plan to pay them off then even better, a trophy would be amazing.

 

If they sack Allardyce a few games into the season after selling players behind his back, then go on to replace him with Neil Warnock closely followed by Brian Robson then I won't be happy.

 

Would you prefer 10 consecutive 9th positions ?

 

What sort of "plan" would that be then

 

 

 

Obviously not considering I said regular European qualification which we wouldn't get once from coming ninth unless the teams above us didn't want the Intertoto, or that we get into 10 FA cup finals in a row.

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

 

Who said top 4?

 

I'd hope for us to finish top 7 in the league on a regular basis, especially as we're the current holders of the "5th best over the past decade" trophy.

 

As long as they don't sack a manager after a few games into the season and replace him with 2 awful managers, while putting the club into debt by throwing money at the problem instead of realising you've f***** up and getting someone else in instead.

 

There is no guarantee they won't appoint a s*** manager. There is no guarantee ManU won't replace Alex Ferguson with a s*** manager. There is no guarantee that it won't happen 6 games into the season either. Football works in this way. People respond to results, unless of course you want to keep a s*** manager till the end of the season when you think he should go in October and end up being relegated ? Do you ?

 

This is Realistic, and totally unrealistic not to realise it.  And - as has been said - despite us not having a plan or any other such cliches, about 87 clubs in the country would swap their "plan" for ours over the last decade.

 

 

 

Well if they do appoint a shit manager then I'll slate them then, I'm not going to do it now though just in case they do in the future.

[NE5]

 

What can I say.

 

All we have to do then is get back into the top 4, make sure we never make a bad signing ever again, get a good plan together, and stay there, just like everybody else wants to do

 

Sorted

 

 

 

Getting into the top 4 would be brilliant but it will take a lot of hard work, let's hope that we do it, maybe then you'll be able to move on.

 

Shepherd has gone and I'm over the moon about that.  The fact that he's gone doesn't mean we're going to automatically do better, that goes without saying but I'm not going to worry about things going wrong before they do, especially when things are going in the right direction, you need to relax a bit, doom and gloom from you doesn't mean things will not get better so try and see some positives and move on.

 

Shepherd was shit, you are glad he's gone, but will settle for the new board not doing as well  mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif

 

Absolutely priceless.