Jol on the brink? Breaking news:Ramos snubs huge Spurs offer.

[Parky]

That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky.

 

They haven't spent a penny have they?

 

 

They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being?

 

 

It's Kenyon's point that matters.

Yeah, but what was your point? Or did you not have one?

 

 

Kenyon's thinly veiled critique of Mourinho.

I was suggesting Chelsea wasn't a very good example to bring up of a club having a DoF and it not working in the Premier League though. They aren't and neither are Spurs. Going purely off the relative recent records of the clubs. Which is all that really matters. The rest is largely conjecture about wranglings behind the scenes.

 

 

So who are we blaming for the Spurs left side?

So, that was the point you were making when you brought up Kenyon? Spurs' left side. Not even worth replying to that one Parky. Nice try, see if you can hook someone else.

 

 

I though YOU were talking about Spurs AND Chelsea?

 

 

Let's put it another way ManU might have won the league last year cause Mourinho didn't get the players HE wanted.

I was talking about Chelsea and (to a lesser extent) Spurs. Fairly obvious (I'd have thought) I was making a general point about the relative recent success of those two teams and how that would tend to suggest a DoF can work. Dein at Arsenal has also been mentioned and is a case in point due to the role he had.

Btw, I think Man Utd. won the league by playing stunning football last season. As to why Chelsea didn't, it's a lot of ifs and buts, as with everything in football. They're still probably in the middle of their most successful spell ever though.

 

 

Ok I stand corrected.

[Mowen]

Jol's not on the brink IMO.

 

Yes Dave but according to you Roeder would still be here.

 

Wasn't that you?

 

 

I thought it was you?

 

Nah. I even bollocked someone for FACTING he would be staying.

 

It was you, you pulled those towers.

 

 

YOu fuck I have it on good authority it was you. Let me look at those fingers. 

 

Where's your authority now, Parkman?

[Guest alex]

That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky.

 

They haven't spent a penny have they?

 

 

They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being?

 

 

It's Kenyon's point that matters.

Yeah, but what was your point? Or did you not have one?

 

 

Kenyon's thinly veiled critique of Mourinho.

I was suggesting Chelsea wasn't a very good example to bring up of a club having a DoF and it not working in the Premier League though. They aren't and neither are Spurs. Going purely off the relative recent records of the clubs. Which is all that really matters. The rest is largely conjecture about wranglings behind the scenes.

 

 

So who are we blaming for the Spurs left side?

So, that was the point you were making when you brought up Kenyon? Spurs' left side. Not even worth replying to that one Parky. Nice try, see if you can hook someone else.

 

 

I though YOU were talking about Spurs AND Chelsea?

 

 

Let's put it another way ManU might have won the league last year cause Mourinho didn't get the players HE wanted.

I was talking about Chelsea and (to a lesser extent) Spurs. Fairly obvious (I'd have thought) I was making a general point about the relative recent success of those two teams and how that would tend to suggest a DoF can work. Dein at Arsenal has also been mentioned and is a case in point due to the role he had.

Btw, I think Man Utd. won the league by playing stunning football last season. As to why Chelsea didn't, it's a lot of ifs and buts, as with everything in football. They're still probably in the middle of their most successful spell ever though.

 

 

Ok I stand corrected.

Somebody frame that

 

Seems you were right about Jol though, all over the radio this morning that he's a goner and Ramos is replacing him. Lippi was also mentioned as a replacement and so was (wait for it) Harry Redknapp. I shit you not.

[Guest alex]

Jol's not on the brink IMO.

 

Yes Dave but according to you Roeder would still be here.

 

Wasn't that you?

 

 

I thought it was you?

 

Nah. I even bollocked someone for FACTING he would be staying.

 

It was you, you pulled those towers.

 

 

YOu fuck I have it on good authority it was you. Let me look at those fingers. 

 

Where's your authority now, Parkman?

I'm fairly sure it was Vic.

[Parky]

Jol's not on the brink IMO.

 

Yes Dave but according to you Roeder would still be here.

 

Wasn't that you?

 

 

I thought it was you?

 

Nah. I even bollocked someone for FACTING he would be staying.

 

It was you, you pulled those towers.

 

 

YOu fuck I have it on good authority it was you. Let me look at those fingers. 

 

Where's your authority now, Parkman?

 

By the power of greyskull? 

[Parky]

That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky.

 

They haven't spent a penny have they?

 

 

They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being?

 

 

It's Kenyon's point that matters.

Yeah, but what was your point? Or did you not have one?

 

 

Kenyon's thinly veiled critique of Mourinho.

I was suggesting Chelsea wasn't a very good example to bring up of a club having a DoF and it not working in the Premier League though. They aren't and neither are Spurs. Going purely off the relative recent records of the clubs. Which is all that really matters. The rest is largely conjecture about wranglings behind the scenes.

 

 

So who are we blaming for the Spurs left side?

So, that was the point you were making when you brought up Kenyon? Spurs' left side. Not even worth replying to that one Parky. Nice try, see if you can hook someone else.

 

 

I though YOU were talking about Spurs AND Chelsea?

 

 

Let's put it another way ManU might have won the league last year cause Mourinho didn't get the players HE wanted.

I was talking about Chelsea and (to a lesser extent) Spurs. Fairly obvious (I'd have thought) I was making a general point about the relative recent success of those two teams and how that would tend to suggest a DoF can work. Dein at Arsenal has also been mentioned and is a case in point due to the role he had.

Btw, I think Man Utd. won the league by playing stunning football last season. As to why Chelsea didn't, it's a lot of ifs and buts, as with everything in football. They're still probably in the middle of their most successful spell ever though.

 

 

Ok I stand corrected.

Somebody frame that

 

Seems you were right about Jol though, all over the radio this morning that he's a goner and Ramos is replacing him. Lippi was also mentioned as a replacement and so was (wait for it) Harry Redknapp. I shit you not.

 

It transpires that his remit for this season was top 4 and nothing less.

 

 

The delusion has spread from the support to the boardroom it seems.

[Northern Monkey]

That said, Chelsea have done ok over the last 3 seasons Parky.

 

They haven't spent a penny have they?

 

 

They've spent money and had the most successful 3 years in their history. Your point being?

 

 

It's Kenyon's point that matters.

Yeah, but what was your point? Or did you not have one?

 

 

Kenyon's thinly veiled critique of Mourinho.

I was suggesting Chelsea wasn't a very good example to bring up of a club having a DoF and it not working in the Premier League though. They aren't and neither are Spurs. Going purely off the relative recent records of the clubs. Which is all that really matters. The rest is largely conjecture about wranglings behind the scenes.

 

 

So who are we blaming for the Spurs left side?

So, that was the point you were making when you brought up Kenyon? Spurs' left side. Not even worth replying to that one Parky. Nice try, see if you can hook someone else.

 

 

I though YOU were talking about Spurs AND Chelsea?

 

 

Let's put it another way ManU might have won the league last year cause Mourinho didn't get the players HE wanted.

I was talking about Chelsea and (to a lesser extent) Spurs. Fairly obvious (I'd have thought) I was making a general point about the relative recent success of those two teams and how that would tend to suggest a DoF can work. Dein at Arsenal has also been mentioned and is a case in point due to the role he had.

Btw, I think Man Utd. won the league by playing stunning football last season. As to why Chelsea didn't, it's a lot of ifs and buts, as with everything in football. They're still probably in the middle of their most successful spell ever though.

 

 

Ok I stand corrected.

Somebody frame that

 

Seems you were right about Jol though, all over the radio this morning that he's a goner and Ramos is replacing him. Lippi was also mentioned as a replacement and so was (wait for it) Harry Redknapp. I shit you not.

 

It transpires that his remit for this season was top 4 and nothing less.

 

 

The delusion has spread from the support to the boardroom it seems.

 

I thought WE had the copyright on those sorts of delusions?? Sue the cockney bastards.

[Guest alex]

It's fucking crazy man iyam. They'd never came 5th in the Premier League before and Jol manages to do it twice and he's up for the sack. Also rumours he had a big bust up with Berbatov when he brought him off against Sunderland (he was shite though). If falling out with your top striker gets you the sack Spurs really are trying to emulate us

[Rebellious]

All this Jol thing was on Sky Sports 1 Sunday morning, discussing the dof Comolli and Jol not getting on , 4 more games to get it right, Ramos approached etc.

[Martin Lol]

Isn't the set up at Arsenal (well was) pretty much the same thing? I would suggest that has worked very well and to my knowledge Arsenal haven't spent vast amounts of money more than some others (like us) but still managed to perform consistantly well over a number of years.

 

Pretty much, David Dein acted as a DOF to Wenger which is why he's on the look out for a replacement.

 

 

 

Dein was excellent in the role actually. But the Arsenal scouting set up in general and Arsene's contacts in Euro also played a big part. Dein wasn't a real specialist mind he was just one from the 'old board' who shared Wenger's vision and understood his needs. Wenger was still Optimus Prime. Where it has gone wrong at Spurs is that Comolli almost seems after Jol's job.   Not quite as bad at Chelsea but there has also been a lot of fiction there.

 

People also have to remember that Kenyon head hunted Mourinho and that brings with it certain ties.

 

 

Comolli is Jol's immediate superior in the hierachy, he recommends people for the underling's job, not tries to take them for himself!

 

The Spurs board will back the DoF ahead of the Head Coach every time.  The coach may be sacked but with the strategy being dictated by the DoF, the continuity will remain.  It should also be remembered that Spurs' 2 5th place finishes have been with Comolli as the DoF, Arnesen never achieved that in his time at Spurs.  Comolli also turned down Wenger when he was tapped up to be Dein's replacement so I don't see the system being the problem as much as the Head Coach (appointed by Arnesen) not being in sync with Comolli's strategy.  Even if a deal with Ramos cannot be finalised, I don't see Jol staying very long and his departure wouldn't have anything to do with the results of the first 2 matches of the season either.

 

Can't be much of a system if two grown men can't communicate within it and sort out the football side of things. MJ  clarify for us how you give so much credit for the two 5th places to Comolli and not Jol. And who is at fault for the Spurs left side?

 

 

 

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2152361,00.html

 

 

 

Jol hears 'whispers' that his sacking is close as Spurs court Sevilla's Ramos

 

 

David Hytner

Monday August 20, 2007

The Guardian

 

Martin Jol fears Tottenham are about to sack him and wants clarity from Daniel Levy, the chairman, about his future. The manager watched his team beat Derby County 4-0 at White Hart Lane on Saturday to win their first points of the season but has been alarmed to hear "whispers" that his days are numbered.

Jol was also distressed to learn that Tottenham directors had met Juande Ramos, the Sevilla manager, in Spain on Friday. John Alexander, the club secretary, was pictured with Ramos, and Paul Kemsley, the vice-chairman, was also present.

 

 

 

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

[Mowen]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

[Guest alex]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

2005 wasn't it? Whereas Carrick left last summer.

[Mowen]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

2005 wasn't it? Whereas Carrick left last summer.

 

May well be true, must have got my years mixed up. So one of the first players Comolli unearthed was Jenas? Who else did Spurs sign that summer?

[Parky]

Isn't the set up at Arsenal (well was) pretty much the same thing? I would suggest that has worked very well and to my knowledge Arsenal haven't spent vast amounts of money more than some others (like us) but still managed to perform consistantly well over a number of years.

 

Pretty much, David Dein acted as a DOF to Wenger which is why he's on the look out for a replacement.

 

 

 

Dein was excellent in the role actually. But the Arsenal scouting set up in general and Arsene's contacts in Euro also played a big part. Dein wasn't a real specialist mind he was just one from the 'old board' who shared Wenger's vision and understood his needs. Wenger was still Optimus Prime. Where it has gone wrong at Spurs is that Comolli almost seems after Jol's job.   Not quite as bad at Chelsea but there has also been a lot of fiction there.

 

People also have to remember that Kenyon head hunted Mourinho and that brings with it certain ties.

 

 

Comolli is Jol's immediate superior in the hierachy, he recommends people for the underling's job, not tries to take them for himself!

 

The Spurs board will back the DoF ahead of the Head Coach every time.  The coach may be sacked but with the strategy being dictated by the DoF, the continuity will remain.  It should also be remembered that Spurs' 2 5th place finishes have been with Comolli as the DoF, Arnesen never achieved that in his time at Spurs.  Comolli also turned down Wenger when he was tapped up to be Dein's replacement so I don't see the system being the problem as much as the Head Coach (appointed by Arnesen) not being in sync with Comolli's strategy.  Even if a deal with Ramos cannot be finalised, I don't see Jol staying very long and his departure wouldn't have anything to do with the results of the first 2 matches of the season either.

 

Can't be much of a system if two grown men can't communicate within it and sort out the football side of things. MJ  clarify for us how you give so much credit for the two 5th places to Comolli and not Jol. And who is at fault for the Spurs left side?

 

 

 

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2152361,00.html

 

 

 

Jol hears 'whispers' that his sacking is close as Spurs court Sevilla's Ramos

 

 

David Hytner

Monday August 20, 2007

The Guardian

 

Martin Jol fears Tottenham are about to sack him and wants clarity from Daniel Levy, the chairman, about his future. The manager watched his team beat Derby County 4-0 at White Hart Lane on Saturday to win their first points of the season but has been alarmed to hear "whispers" that his days are numbered.

Jol was also distressed to learn that Tottenham directors had met Juande Ramos, the Sevilla manager, in Spain on Friday. John Alexander, the club secretary, was pictured with Ramos, and Paul Kemsley, the vice-chairman, was also present.

 

 

 

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

 

 

Thanks MJ good read.

 

 

 

On another level the wage structure imo has held Spurs back and I think without it there is no doubt in my mind you would have had top 4 in one of the last two seasons. But clearly that would have had consequences on the long term project.

 

 

Of interest reg Comolli things..

 

 

COMOLLI'S SIGNINGS

 

Comolli has delievered in bringing a number of players to White Hart Lane in his two years at the club...

 

THE HITS: Dimitar Berbatov - £10.9m from Bayer Leverkusen, Pascal Chambonda - £5.25m from Wigan

 

THE MISSES: Benoit Assou-Ekottu - £3.5m from Lens, Didier Zokora - £8.2m from St Etienne, Ricardo Rocha - £3.3m from Benfica, Dorian Dervitte - undisclosed from Lille, Hossam Ghaly - £3.25m from Feyenoord

 

[NG32]

I would laugh my balls off if Souness was trotted out as the replacement for Martin Jol.  Wont happen but would be comedy gold!

[Mowen]

That's the point I was trying to get at by asking who Comolli had signed.. I'm sure that Arnesen has contributed more to the current first team squad than Comolli has, so for MJ (the poster, not the manager) to say "that with the squad that Comolli put together" seems to overrate what he's acheived at the club so far.

[Martin Lol]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

[Parky]

That's the point I was trying to get at by asking who Comolli had signed.. I'm sure that Arnesen has contributed more to the current first team squad than Comolli has, so for MJ (the poster, not the manager) to say "that with the squad that Comolli put together" seems to overrate what he's acheived at the club so far.

 

COMOLLI'S SIGNINGS

 

Comolli has delievered in bringing a number of players to White Hart Lane in his two years at the club...

 

THE HITS: Dimitar Berbatov - £10.9m from Bayer Leverkusen, Pascal Chambonda - £5.25m from Wigan

 

THE MISSES: Benoit Assou-Ekottu - £3.5m from Lens, Didier Zokora - £8.2m from St Etienne, Ricardo Rocha - £3.3m from Benfica, Dorian Dervitte - undisclosed from Lille, Hossam Ghaly - £3.25m from Feyenoord

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=476526&in_page_id=1771&ICO=SPORT&ICL=TOPART

[Mowen]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

 

Robinson? Dawson? Lennon? Keane? Defoe? Lee?

EDIT: Was Carrick not also Arnesen? It's indisputible that he was key to the first 5th place, and he then went on to make you a huge amount of money allowing you to buy Berb with some to spare.

 

Were they not of his era?

 

As far as I can tell, those signed by Comolli who played regularly last season are Jenas, Berb, Chimbonda, Zokora and Malbranque although less frequently. I would have said Arnesen had just as much of an impact, he propelled you there, or so it seemed to an outsider.

 

Feel free to correct on any of the signings though, it's almost impossible I've got the timings of them all correct in my head.

[danswan]

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

 

Who's name are you going to adopt once he's gone MJ?

[Parky]

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

 

Who's name are you going to adopt once he's gone MJ?

 

[Martin Lol]

Isn't the set up at Arsenal (well was) pretty much the same thing? I would suggest that has worked very well and to my knowledge Arsenal haven't spent vast amounts of money more than some others (like us) but still managed to perform consistantly well over a number of years.

 

Pretty much, David Dein acted as a DOF to Wenger which is why he's on the look out for a replacement.

 

 

 

Dein was excellent in the role actually. But the Arsenal scouting set up in general and Arsene's contacts in Euro also played a big part. Dein wasn't a real specialist mind he was just one from the 'old board' who shared Wenger's vision and understood his needs. Wenger was still Optimus Prime. Where it has gone wrong at Spurs is that Comolli almost seems after Jol's job.   Not quite as bad at Chelsea but there has also been a lot of fiction there.

 

People also have to remember that Kenyon head hunted Mourinho and that brings with it certain ties.

 

 

Comolli is Jol's immediate superior in the hierachy, he recommends people for the underling's job, not tries to take them for himself!

 

The Spurs board will back the DoF ahead of the Head Coach every time.  The coach may be sacked but with the strategy being dictated by the DoF, the continuity will remain.  It should also be remembered that Spurs' 2 5th place finishes have been with Comolli as the DoF, Arnesen never achieved that in his time at Spurs.  Comolli also turned down Wenger when he was tapped up to be Dein's replacement so I don't see the system being the problem as much as the Head Coach (appointed by Arnesen) not being in sync with Comolli's strategy.  Even if a deal with Ramos cannot be finalised, I don't see Jol staying very long and his departure wouldn't have anything to do with the results of the first 2 matches of the season either.

 

Can't be much of a system if two grown men can't communicate within it and sort out the football side of things. MJ  clarify for us how you give so much credit for the two 5th places to Comolli and not Jol. And who is at fault for the Spurs left side?

 

 

 

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2152361,00.html

 

 

 

Jol hears 'whispers' that his sacking is close as Spurs court Sevilla's Ramos

 

 

David Hytner

Monday August 20, 2007

The Guardian

 

Martin Jol fears Tottenham are about to sack him and wants clarity from Daniel Levy, the chairman, about his future. The manager watched his team beat Derby County 4-0 at White Hart Lane on Saturday to win their first points of the season but has been alarmed to hear "whispers" that his days are numbered.

Jol was also distressed to learn that Tottenham directors had met Juande Ramos, the Sevilla manager, in Spain on Friday. John Alexander, the club secretary, was pictured with Ramos, and Paul Kemsley, the vice-chairman, was also present.

 

 

 

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

 

 

Thanks MJ good read.

 

 

 

On another level the wage structure imo has held Spurs back and I think without it there is no doubt in my mind you would have had top 4 in one of the last two seasons. But clearly that would have had consequences on the long term project.

 

 

Of interest reg Comolli things..

 

 

COMOLLI'S SIGNINGS

 

Comolli has delievered in bringing a number of players to White Hart Lane in his two years at the club...

 

THE HITS: Dimitar Berbatov - £10.9m from Bayer Leverkusen, Pascal Chambonda - £5.25m from Wigan

 

THE MISSES: Benoit Assou-Ekottu - £3.5m from Lens, Didier Zokora - £8.2m from St Etienne, Ricardo Rocha - £3.3m from Benfica, Dorian Dervitte - undisclosed from Lille, Hossam Ghaly - £3.25m from Feyenoord

 

 

Personally, with the exception of Ghaly, I wouldn't describe any of your named misses as such.  There have been many better players who have struggled in the first season, Drogba and Henry readily come to mind, and both Zokora and Rocha have spoken of their shock at the pace of the premiership.  Whether they eventually adjust only time will tell, but if they don't it will be because they are good players not suited to the premiership, not simply bad players.  BAE and Dervite have both had serious injuries, especially with Dervite whose knee had to be reconstructed after a really bad ACL.  Still debateable whether he will play again.

 

JJ wasn't a Comolli signing, he was inbetween DoFs and arrived on the recommendation of SBR who was advising Levy at the time.  To Comolli's hits I would add Malbranque, Taarabt, Boateng (from the one match I've seen him in) and Kaboul, plus I do believe Bale will turn out to be one of his best signings.

 

The wage structure is a funny one.  On the face of it, it holds Spurs back but we do still sign good players, Bent, Berbatov and Zokora all turning down more money from West Ham, Man Utd and Arsenal respectively.  It does show that those players aren't just turning up for the money.

[Guest Rushian]

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

 

It's change for the sake of change. Nothing else. If Jol was really that much of a liability he should have been sacked immediately following the last game of last season (something Newcastle have often got wrong until Roeder's departure). As it is he's been allowed to shape pre-season and had input into what players could/should be bought. You may as well give the job to Commoli.

 

It's a recipe for disaster when the DoF and Coach have clearly divergent views on players. Are you seriously saying Berbatov or Chimbonda would have joined other clubs if a DoF with Comolli's power didn't exist? It hardly took much scouting to find those and any competent chief-exec could have negotiated the deals.

 

Part of the problem with the way Spurs are running this system, is it's being run in an alien environment where the media and fans where the blame for any perceived failure is heaped 100% on the manager. Jol is taking flak for Commoli's failings.

 

btw Kuyt for 18m? Where did that come from? Never saw that figure quoted once in any story when LFC were trying to buy him and he eventually joined for just over 9m.

[Martin Lol]

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

 

It's change for the sake of change. Nothing else. If Jol was really that much of a liability he should have been sacked immediately following the last game of last season (something Newcastle have often got wrong until Roeder's departure). As it is he's been allowed to shape pre-season and had input into what players could/should be bought. You may as well give the job to Commoli.

 

It's a recipe for disaster when the DoF and Coach have clearly divergent views on players. Are you seriously saying Berbatov or Chimbonda would have joined other clubs if a DoF with Comolli's power didn't exist? It hardly took much scouting to find those and any competent chief-exec could have negotiated the deals.

 

Part of the problem with the way Spurs are running this system, is it's being run in an alien environment where the media and fans where the blame for any perceived failure is heaped 100% on the manager. Jol is taking flak for Commoli's failings.

 

btw Kuyt for 18m? Where did that come from? Never saw that figure quoted once in any story when LFC were trying to buy him and he eventually joined for just over 9m.

 

Berbatov was Comolli's #1 pick for a tall striker to complement Keane/Defoe.  Kuyt was Jol's #1 pick for that position.  The first prices Spurs were given were £10.9m for Berbatov, £18m for Kuyt.  Leverkusen never budged from their quoted figure, Feyenoord eventually dropped their figure to £13.3m.  Comolli (against Jol's wishes) opted to sign Berbatov, Jol was happy to pay £18m for Kuyt and remained Kuyt remained Jol's preferred choice right to the end.

 

The DoF and the Head Coach should obviously try to work harmoniously but it's inevitable there will be differences.  The DoF will obviously back his own judgement.  My concern would be if Comolli got more wrong than right and imho that isn't a matter for debate.

[Dokko]

Whoever signed Bent for near £17m while the defence was left with a huge Ledley King sized hole yet again wants to take the blame for the poor start to the season.

 

Spurs simply didn't need a 4th striker of that quality, they did however need a proven CB to match King with his abilities and force Dawson to rotation.

 

I also feel there are too many cooks in the middle of the park. Needs a big clearout and to bring in some big named players. Too many similar players, with similar defects in talent and limitations.

 

Jol also isn't as good as he's been made out by the London media and Spuds fans, been found out slightly, but i think sacking him right now is harsh especially if Comolli bought Bent and not a strong CB.

 

There is no excuse why Spurs couldn't of signed Naldo, Luazio or someone of that stature this season, Capital pull, Euro football, but they didn't and are now suffering for poor squad management.