NJS

Since they took no confidence from the Chelsea result, we'd have been much better off getting hammered and beating Stoke or Wigan (especially the former). The other thing about the Chelsea result is that it will encourage the gormless twat to do an Allardyce and play for more draws away (see Boro). I enjoyed Chelsea in a sticking two fingers up to the world kind of way but I think it might cost us dear.

Counting Blackburn that's Kinnear's eleventh match. Id say counting Villa and Chelsea that's 2 good results at a push. However we've lost to Blackburn, Sunderland and Fulham and have failed to beat Boro, Stoke and Wigan. And yet the chairman says he's done a good job and the owner extends his contract. We are fucked so many ways it's unreal.

Clueless cunt who gave him the contract more like.

What commitment? All the money he has put in he wants back with no net gain (and allowing for ST/TV money a net loss) to the club. I honestly can't believe you think theres anyway forward for him without a massive change of tack. Well we don't know how much he's asking for the club, but I've no problem with him getting the full market value. In his statement, he'd cleared the debts and he was prepared to write off £20 million a year. That's what I mean by his commitment. Everyone will have their own opinion how genuine that was, but personally I think he was on the level and was in it for the long haul. What's more, I think he had a good long-term strategy for the club. On this issue of the £20 million, which a lot of people instantly think will be devoted to transfer fees - that's a contribution to the entire running cost of the club, including wages etc A lot of the sponsor money had already been spent in advance. How many years would we/will we have to wait (given the increased ST/TV money) to see any £20ms? Full market value - How is the playing staff worth £100m (as valued) without Owen? The long term strategy as described would be good if we already had a decent squad - we don't so it isn't.

What commitment? All the money he has put in he wants back with no net gain (and allowing for ST/TV money a net loss) to the club. I honestly can't believe you think theres anyway forward for him without a massive change of tack.

Glazer/Lerner/Hicks/Gillet et al are all out to make money - that's how they made their money by doing the same thing in the US. The only clubs bought as playthings (which I agree is our ideal) would be Man City and arguably Chelsea and possibly Boro. Even then the latter two are at least trying to run themselves as businesses.

I work with a Fener fan and when I asked him a couple of weeks ago (at the time of the Arsenal game) he said he'd never played due to injury.

I don't see what he has done to warrant a thawing if the only money available in Jan is via sales.

Obviously that would be different. Without being psychic I'd imagine that we aren't attracting interest from people who have stupid money a la Man City so it's safe to assume those interested have a limited initial budget as I suggested. The best case would obviously be somebody who is willing to spend "stupid" money on players but who is a ruthless enough businessman to gamble and wait until the price falls.

Fair point, obviously i cant argue with that but we were linked with players within that policy from other clubs around europe as well. Gomis, Skeljbred, Zayatte, Gomis, Digard, all pretty solidly linked with the club which does show that it was more extentisve. Why they werent signed is up for debate. Accepted.

If it's true, that's a fair price. If we are struggling to find buyers for that amount, you have to wonder what sort of people are in for the club and how much liquid assets they have at their disposal. I fail to see how our value has shot up by nigh £130m since his arrival. That's why you'll make a great Journo! Depends how you look at it. If I had say £300m to invest in a club with the intention of making money via success in the long run then I might take a view that paying £130m for a club which has £100m worth of debt which is serviceable on an ongoing basis would leave me £170m to spend on the team. A price of £260 for a debt free club leaves only £40m which may not be enough to provide the success.

The difference is investment and ambition.

Sorry missed Guthrie. There was a supposed change when Wise et al arrived - they sold it as a concentration on young upcoming players as you said - That's fine on its own - all I said was that 4 out of 6 signings from one country does not suggest a wide-ranging international scouting network - it suggests a head of recruitment/chief scout combo who ring their mates.

All signed by Allardyce - sweet FA to do with the supposed change of policy from Jan 08.

Can you show me evidence that Jiminez looked beyond Spain apart from one player? What about Martins, Jenas, Viana and Milner?

How many clubs the size of ours in your lifetime have went bust? If you mention Leeds Ill tell you what - I'd rather a club that actually went for it and failed and paid the price than one that sits on its arse in mid table. we DID go for it and failed and almost went bust. According to Ashley. Which creditors would have sued and forced administration?

The last 11 fielded before Ashley took over was: Harper Solano Ramage Taylor Carr Butt Milner Dyer Ameobi Owen Pattison Today we'll probably have: Given Beye Coloccini Bassong Enrique Gutierrez Butt Guthrie N'Zogbia Owen Martins I know which team I would rather watch, I think I'd only pick a fit and in form Dyer from the original 11. I;m not an NE5 - things had gone stale under Shepherd as the team shows but I'm not fooled by the "improvement" either - that former team finished 13th I think - if not where we will finish this year if lucky, its where we'd have to get used to with the "steady progress" model of Ashley.

How many clubs the size of ours in your lifetime have went bust? If you mention Leeds Ill tell you what - I'd rather a club that actually went for it and failed and paid the price than one that sits on its arse in mid table.

No investment, no ambition, no targets beyond financial - I can see the attraction. I'm not renewing next year unless he's gone. That's after having an ST since 83 - I can't be bothered with a club that just wants my money so it can avoid relegation and make money. I know that could be said to have applied during those years but after seeing what a bit of ambition can bring, to go back to being shite is too much to bear.

Thousand of people all over the country are now having to sell their houses at a lot less than what they wanted 6 months ago - that's the way things go - why should a football club be different?

Speculation, contradiction and hypocrisy all in one post. The first sentence alone is priceless. Good work. Why is it wrong to judge Ashley soley on his actions? The internets must be well fucked up, because on my screen it doesn't look like I said it wasn't. Your strongest objection to HTT's post seemed to be the question of trusting Ashley - that's why I responded. I've said before I think some blame attaches to Keegan for letting things get to where they did but I simply do not trust Ashley at all.

Speculation, contradiction and hypocrisy all in one post. The first sentence alone is priceless. Good work. Why is it wrong to judge Ashley soley on his actions? Have you judged Keegan solely on his? Yes - and I doubt I'd have lasted till August in the same situation.

The only thinging stopping the sale isn't the fans - its the price combined with the economic climate. The very idea that a potential investor even knows NUSC exists is laughable. You dont think a club thats being boycotted where the fans no nothing may put off potential investors? Especially when the owner may feel he's done little wrong? Yeh you're right the idea is laughable, Im sure the potential buyers are completely unaware of any boycott at the club. Best keep that quiet. Again, would investors go through due diligence and make offers if they had concerns about the fans?

Simple as that then. Note to FredBob - they didn't go through due diligence, put in offers and then withdraw them because of any fan action.

The only thinging stopping the sale isn't the fans - its the price combined with the economic climate. The very idea that a potential investor even knows NUSC exists is laughable.