UV

Yeah, but we're getting rid of those bad eggs, the sort of players we're bringing in now aren't the sort to let their contracts run down, demand a transfer, or get into disputes with their club. Oh...

Not saying you're wrong, but do you think it's really as simple as that? In theory it should be, but I wonder to what extent players become aware of other interest through their agents etc. Anyway, I'm sure a key reason for the sale was that to get £4m for Nolan when he is only going to decline in the next few seasons was considered a good deal. Maybe that and the "style of football" change that the new signings are supposed to be bringing. Thank goodness the new players are all going to be a success, stay fit, and be suspension free then. I didn't see the Leeds game, what did the new style look like with only Marveaux of the new guys out?

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

All the arguments I've seen for the squad being better than last year rely heavily on all or most of the new players (plus Ben Arfa, Gosling & replacement LB) fitting in, adapting to the Prem, staying fit and generally living up to expectations of being good players and "better" than the ones they're replacing (Carroll, Nolan, Routledge, very probably Enrique + anyone else to leave), and enabling the team to play in a new style which is probably going to score less goals but spread them around more and win games by increasing possession stats . That's a pretty big ask, and an unrealistic expectation IMO. That's nothing to do with the cost of the players, nor based on any kind of analysis of the players themselves, just simple expectation management based on years of experience of many (most?) new signings for one reason or another not living up to expectations. Some new players will obviously live up to or exceed expectations and be players you want in the first team every week, some will be okay and you'd be happy with them as squad players but would rather have better as first choice, and some will simply be either terrible, never get a chance to play or are sicknotes who are just a drain on the wage bill. Ask yourself when was the last time all (or even most) of our new signings turned out to be players you were happy to be regulars in the first team. Off the top of my head I'd probably say the percentages are something like 25%, 50%, 25%, so for every 4 new players, roughly 1 will be good, 2 will be meh, and 1 will be a Xisco/Gonzalez/Perch/Campbell. That's not a criticism of our club, it's the same everywhere, so why would this year be any different? It might be, but it's unlikely. That's not being negative, or writing players off before they've had a chance or any shit like that, it's just being realistic about the odds. When you keep your best players from the previous year and replace half a dozen of the weaker squad members with new ones, you can be fairly happy that you've probably improved, because the couple of the new players that come good will displace the ones from last year who don't perform as well. However when you get rid of 3 of your best players from the previous year (I'm assuming Enrique will go), you're already starting on the back foot and need 3 of the new players to at least match their contribution just to stay still. That's is a criticism of our club. It's not impossible, but it's very unlikely to be the case that we'll have a better squad for this year than we did at the end of the last Summer window even if we do get another striker in IMO, and tbh that squad wasn't the strongest and probably over-performed as newly promoted teams do.

I think it's reasonable to accept that a large part of Pardew's salary is performance based, it's Ashley's MO and that's what the rumours were at the time (and also the rumours as to why Hughton was reluctant to sign the contract he was offered in the Summer) - relatively low basic pay with big bonuses for achieving performance targets. Now of course for a manager of a football club, the performance he can most directly affect is the team's progress in the league and cups. Given an agreed budget, and control of the incomings & outgoings, that's fine and acceptable, however if the management above you is going to, for example, constantly try to cut costs, and get rid of your biggest resources in achieving your targets for the year (and the bonuses associated with that), you're going to get rightly p*ssed off that the targets you thought were achievable are being sabotaged. So if that were the only way of achieving the bonuses you were relying on to make your wage competitive, you'd quit. The management at Ashley's companies are incentivised by the company's profit margins. If they can perform their jobs at an adequate level with lower costs (ie in our case the target is to stay in the Premier League), then they are contributing to the profit margins. They may get a slap on the wrist for too many complaints, but they probably don't get bonuses for customer satisfaction. It's not really a stretch to think that it would be part of Pardew's contract to get a bonus if the club makes a profit rather than finish higher in the table. That doesn't make any sense. If he doesn't have any influence on transfers there's nothing he can do directly to influence the club's profit margin at the end of the season... ...other than finishing higher in the league In any case, would make absolutely no sense for him to have a bonus based on profit margin. Most of his SD employees that recently got a bonus probably had very little directly to do with how the company made it's profit (they didn't buy the products or set the prices or the staff salaries), but if they kept their shop going at low cost, then they were part of the success of it. In comparison, keeping us in the Premier League with whatever squad he's given has probably the largest effect on our profit margin you can get.

I think it's reasonable to accept that a large part of Pardew's salary is performance based, it's Ashley's MO and that's what the rumours were at the time (and also the rumours as to why Hughton was reluctant to sign the contract he was offered in the Summer) - relatively low basic pay with big bonuses for achieving performance targets. Now of course for a manager of a football club, the performance he can most directly affect is the team's progress in the league and cups. Given an agreed budget, and control of the incomings & outgoings, that's fine and acceptable, however if the management above you is going to, for example, constantly try to cut costs, and get rid of your biggest resources in achieving your targets for the year (and the bonuses associated with that), you're going to get rightly pissed off that the targets you thought were achievable are being sabotaged. So if that were the only way of achieving the bonuses you were relying on to make your wage competitive, you'd quit. The management at Ashley's companies are incentivised by the company's profit margins. If they can perform their jobs at an adequate level with lower costs (ie in our case the target is to stay in the Premier League), then they are contributing to the profit margins. They may get a slap on the wrist for too many complaints, but they probably don't get bonuses for customer satisfaction. It's not really a stretch to think that it would be part of Pardew's contract to get a bonus if the club makes a profit rather than finish higher in the table.

Most clubs in the league could be relegated if you erased their 3 best players, up to and including teams like Everton and Villa. Most clubs in the league don't have the money coming in that we do to be able to mitigate against it happening.

It is though. Believe it or not, footballers are people too, and they have the same motivations and goals as the rest of us, which typically is to earn more money and/or if you are among the best in the world at what you do to become recognised as such by winning awards (cups or trophies I believe they are called). Expecting them to put their own interests aside and only do what's best for their current employer (which varies from committing themselves for life on whatever the club is willing to pay them to just dropping any claim to the wages they signed up to and fucking off, depending on how well a player is doing) is completely unrealistic and against human nature.

Will you earn £60k this week? This Month? This Year? Thought not. When did you last get a 20% pay rise? I've never ever had one that big. I got a 3% rise last October and that was the first rise i'd had for 3 years due to the economic downturn. He needs to take a big reality check. Are you one of the best people in the world at your job like, and is your job an essential part of a highly lucrative business? Is your career expected to last less than 20 years? Do you put the welfare of your company, and it's customers ahead of your own when you think you could get a better job elsewhere? Would you turn down the offer of a payrise if offered one by another company with better prospects? Knowing another company would pay you more money or give you more worldwide acclaim (whichever your main motivation in life is), would you happily sign up if your current company who were showing no signs of trying to better themselves (enabling you personally to gain more worldwide acclaim) told you they wanted you to commit to staying with them for another 4/5 years on the same money you had been getting for the last 4? It's not footballers who need to take a reality check, it's supporters.

Rather than try to keep one of our best young players, the club took the opportunity to cash in and made it look like it was the player who wanted to leave. The manager who was initially dead set against the transfer was sated by the fact that he was promised that the money would be spent bringing in a better replacement and told the supporters as much. Villa finished 6th for 2 years with Milner as an integral part of their team and one of their best players. We didn't replace him, lost our manager, and got relegated. Great business. Good job Ashley learnt his lesson and didn't make the same mistake again with Carroll by making sure the manager at the time was either complicit or wouldn't object to being used. The signs of how Ashley was going to run the club were clear even back then for those who wanted to see them, yet even now some wont/can't.

Decreased away support = Less money going to rival clubs AND more supporters with spare cash to spend on club tat at SD. The man's a genius.

Hey, but at least the club is doing something to try to slow down the constantly decreasing matchday revenues. It beats increasing the club's income by charging the going rate for advertising space anyway. As this action is being taken in response to a pre-season friendly which is closer in security terms to a reserve game than a competitive match, I wonder if this will apply to going to all reserve, friendly and testimonial games too?

The one who was sacked to make way for Pardew. Ian, noone with any sense takes everything the manager or club officials of any team say as gospel, as there are certain things it is in the best interests of the club to keep under wraps. Some managers don't like deliberately misleading fans and will avoid the issue altogether, others have no problem with implying one thing while keeping the language vague enough to be able to say the situation changed when the opposite of what they implied earlier happens, and in the case of some managers like Kinnear they are living in their own little fantasy world and will just say whatever pops into their head at the time that they think supporters want to hear. The bizarre thing is people like yourself who get all uptight when Pardew or the club say something and people don't automatically believe it without question. Apparently having any cynicism even when justified by experience is being "negative". You obviously realise that Pardew doesn't always tell the whole truth, and in the Tiote thread you accept that the only thing keeping him here is other clubs' lack of interest. So why when people dismiss what Pardew says on matters of buying and selling players as irrelevant do you get upset about it? It almost seems like you want to be comforted by being misled.

Now it's a more successful company the club will probably have to pay Sports Direct more for the use of it's logo advertising the advertising space.

I also think that and theres a bit of depth to it too. Hopefully Steven Taylor looking a much improved player at the end of last season is a reality and not a blip, and despite what the wrist slitters are saying it's very likely that a quality forward will be coming before the window ends. All in all probably the best squad we've had for a decade or so unless you prefer the "Freddie's galacticos" type of signing. Both full back positions still concern me though.

Stop being so positive annoyance disapproval disdain It should be expected that once the season gets going there will be on average 3-6 injured players out for each game, and on top of that you will have suspensions for those who play regularly. It's not negative to factor this into your expectations, and it's not bad luck or poor medical staff when it happens, it's part of modern football where players are pushed to their limits in training and in games week in week out. On average the injuries & suspensions will be scattered around the positions, and around how important the players are. You can only count yourself "unlucky" if you have more injuries than normal for a significant period, or if the injuries are more concentrated in one area of your squad or on your best players. Basing your targets for the season on having a largely first choice XI every week is completely unrealistic and doomed to disappointment.

Do you honestly think he hasn't told the club this, and is just trying for some reason (I'm not sure why) to string them along by saying well I might sign one, talk to me later? It's blatantly obvious that he wont sign a new contract and has been for a while. I personally expect that he has explicitly told the club this, but even if he hasn't it's quite implicit from his refusal to even negotiate about it. As Tron says, what possible advantage would it be to the club or the player to come out in the press and say so explicitly though. Everything points to him wanting to move for his career, not for money, and if so it would be in his interest to move this season rather than next, however he is quite honourably if you ask me allowing the club to decide whether to let him play out his contract or sell him to a club with bigger aspirations where he has more chance of being picked for his country. He's not agitating for a move, he's not got his agent making trouble in the press to lower his price and attract interest, he's just quietly letting things play out.

Possibly, I guess we also have some dodgy cover for RB as well in the form of the Taylor twins, but I wouldn't want to be seeing them play there much. Don't worry, the defence isn't going to have much to do next year, the midfield aren't going to let the opposition see any of the ball and most of the goals we conceded last year were Nolan's fault. Enrique = a cunt who is being disrespectful to the fans and only interested in money by sticking to the terms of his contract signed 5 years ago even through a relegation and not signing a "highly lucrative" new contract. Ben Arfa, Ba, Cabaye, Marveaux = good lads with well researched solid characters, just looking for a bigger footballing challenge (in some cases a bigger challenge than being Champions of their native league and playing in the CL). Massive double standards lads. You play by the sword, you die by the sword. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. etc

Wrong tense. Wrong tense again, but maybe we should be less blasé about the defence. They've generally been praised (Coloccini, Enrique, and I'll include Tiote here) or deemed as adequate (Williamson, Simpson), but last year I don't remember quite so many complaints about lack of protection from the midfield that we've had for many previous years (as well as Tiote, Gutierrez and Barton are considered as decent at protecting the defence, and Carroll was good at defending set pieces). Yet last year we conceded only 2 less than in our relegation season, and equalled our 3rd worst total in the Premiership years (17 of them). This year we will very likely be losing one of the better members of that defence. But I digress. The fact is, people are getting all excited about how great we're going to be next year with our all new attacking setup. Ben Arfa is going to take to his new position in a new team in a new league like a fish to water as are all the other new signings. Yet noone has any confidence whatsoever that we can actually score more goals than we did last year with only half a season of Carroll, and Nolan slowing us down simply because last year we had some "freak" results which we might not get next year? Of course we might not, then again there may be more "freak" results, but that's why it's a gamble. I fail to see why if people truly believe we have improved as a team so will have more possession, and improved as an attacking force with more scoring options, that it's such an obviously bad bet to take. Are all the other teams spending loads on their defences to stop us scoring next year? Sunderland have spent a bit I guess and we got 6 off them, but it's largely been derided as a bad move, so that can't be it can it? Is what people are getting excited about really just that we'll hopefully have better possession stats? Because I can tell you now that you wont be getting excited watching the game with great possession stats and no goals. I don't even think we were that bad last year in most games possession-wise? If there were somewhere you could get reliable possession stats I might even be tempted to offer up a bet on that. We're supposed to be improving, and moving forward as a team/squad. Apparently you do that by being happy to score less goals as long as you improve your possession stats, and hope your defence (the same defence or potentially weaker) is a lot better at defending teams on the break than teams controlling more of the possession. Until now, it's the first I've really heard of people thinking the team will be better next year because we'll concede less goals tbh. Not convinced. Most of those stats posted above are from years where we finished below mid table btw, so if the aim is to finish above 10th, then we should really be doing better than an average of those.

I'm not going to bet on something on here I could get far better odds than evens for on betfair. Anyone taking the bet from me could just lay it off, it's what I'd do. Goals scored isn't a bet I've seen elsewhere, so it's one I'll make here. Claims have been made that we will have or already have a better attack than last year. All this wishy washy oh we'll spread the goals around more but might not score as many, the attack will be better though, is just an excuse for a lack of conviction. What's going to happen to this super new attack, are they going to get a couple of goals against the poorer teams and then sit back on the lead? Why aren't they going spank some teams like last year, especially if they are more able to score against better teams? Remember we only had a decent striker for half the season last year, we've got rid of Nolan who was holding back the free flowing attacking style of play, and there's more players to come. Why would that mean we can't score more than last year unless people are underestimating what those players added to the team?

How did we do last season versus historic numbers of goals, any idea? Seemed an unusually free-scoring season to me. Irrelevant if we've improved as an attacking force from last year, no?

I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers.

Maybe they'll agree to pay the agent and signing on fees, as now our cards have been marked we all know how much they can be. Otherwise, there's another £5m out of the Carroll pot gone.

Dave. 9m transfer fees, 65k wages, all these are "assumptions". You are assuming that he is available at this price, but who knows the truth? I use historical fact that is available so far. The best example for you is Phil Jones because there is a clause triggered and therefore his price is the most reasonable one. We have tried for Gameiro, Gervinho and Erdinc. Why are you ignoring them then? Because last time I checked points aren't handed out based on players you try for. Seeing as you're going big on facts, how do you know we lodged realistic bids for those players? All we have is speculation. Our bids might have given us no chance. Also I haven't seen any of them play so it's hard for me to judge whether or not they'd be good for us, I'll openly admit that. I know for a fact Carroll and Nolan were capable in this league, and the same applies to N'Zogbia. using the same logic then, you don't actually know what we have done, who we've bid for, how much etc ? so what are you complaining about ? Exactly, just look at when we missed out on signing Modric, we were straight back into the market and made sure we didn't miss out on our second choice, Danny Guthrie.

I'd say an important first team member of 2 Championship winning teams was quite a decent squad player for a lower table Premiership club to have tbh. He's probably at the height of his marketability now though, so selling him off to free up some window space for new product would be a good business move from the club.