Rich

That's all fair enough and explains a lot really, refreshing to see an honest picture of where someone has come from and why they're here too. It does fascinate me how our environment and those around us influence our opinions on everything. My identity with football has always been a regional thing and because everyone at school was Newcastle, I was never really pressed into it and the family I speak of weren't exactly football-daft or season ticket holders, though my Granddad used to be a regular back in the day. Most of my family - especially the serious football heads - are Sunderland fans as my Mam's side was from Jarrow. That's probably why I can see both sides, I would imagine, as I haven't been brought up in a dogmatic "Newcastle, Newcastle, Newcastle" environment and I was never forced into following NUFC, it just sort of happened because of where I was and because all my Mackem family had moved to Manchester so I only saw them a few times a year - if that - and they couldn't influence me into the dark side. Suppose it takes all sorts really.

To be honest, I was just saying what I think when asked the question in the thread header. Sorry, like. Apologies if that is genuinely the case, but it's the impression I get from you the majority of the time in here, whereas in Gen Chat you make fantastic posts like the one about Morocco earlier on. Apology accepted. My posts on Bellamy here may sound a bit sarcastic, because they are, but I am trying to make a point too, and it's a point that I often try to make in a roundabout way -- that we spend far too much time living in the past and mooning around wishfully over long-departed players and managers. Bellamy is history. He should stay that way. Morocco... well, I was in a position to be helpful, so I tried to be. Different kind of discussion. That's fair enough as well, I don't see how anybody could honestly dispute that as any sort of ridiculous opinion or perspective, although I would argue that it's sort of inbuilt into us as Newcastle supporters and it's inbuilt into the club in the way that players/managers always seem to come back, by hook or by crook. Obviously simply because it happens doesn't mean it's right or that it will "work" for us, but I genuinely believe it's part of the romance of being a NUFC fan and I'm not sure I would want to swap it for a less emotional, more robotic approach, despite it often being the cause of most of our woes. I admire the fact that you can distance yourself enough emotionally from the club to have that sort of opinion, like, as I'm not sure I'm quite mature enough/experienced enough to do it myself. Upthread somewhere I think I used a "girlfriend" analogy. In normal life we all have to learn how to let things go, say "Well it was good while it lasted" and move on. Remaining stuck on a lost love simply isn't healthy. The attitude you describe may well be hard-wired into the romance of being a Toon fan, but if so I'd say it was one of the club's problems. Most of the other fans I speak to -- family and old friends, rather than people on here -- have similar attitudes to my own, though. It's different for me, to be honest, and I'd imagine it's different for NE5 as well based on his perspectives on things. All the lads I talk to about the game reminisce about the "good times", like we've been doing in the thread of the same name on here and the likes of my Granddad and my Dad always hark back to the same sort of times and wish that the same people could be involved and the same effect could occur (Keegan, Shearer, etc.) I tend to agree that it can be a major problem for the club but when harnessed correctly - as has been the case with Keegan in particular on two occasions now (no matter how brief the second was) - it can be the thing that pushes us on and makes us the best that we can be. As with most things I don't think the issue resides at one end of the see-saw, it's more like somewhere in the middle. This topic is a fascinating one, though, and one that you're never going to get everyone agreeing on as it goes far deeper into things such as sociology, psychology, history and emotions than most other topics do. It takes some brains to be able to debate it effectively, basically, and a hell of a lot of time as well. It's one of those things that you can only really philosophise over yourself or talk to with your closest mates (who can actually think along the same lines) about and it's something (like most things regarding NUFC) that we, as individuals, cannot really do anything about - and is probably why things get so heated when discussing it/writing about it, as it comes bundled with a lot of frustration. The whole thing is a massive headfuck, basically, much like anything else that matters in life. I have to say I'm definitely a lot happier since I accepted the fact I cannot change anything regarding NUFC and I just tend to roll with the punches a bit now. Still get that aching in the gut though when things like Keegan-gate occur or when we throw away a 2-0 lead against one of the worst top-flight teams I've ever seen in the flesh (bear in mind I'm a young 'un.)

Honestly, with you two it's just about a completely opposite way of looking at things and way of evaluating things that mean a personality clash is unavoidable. This isn't helped by the fact that both of you can be unbearable arseholes at times - especially with each other. Suppose things would be boring if everyone got along all of the time like, but do the pair of you (and others) really need to be so fucking awful to each other all of the time? We all have our moments on here, but I think it's easy to see that this "NE5, UV, HTL, etc. versus Mick, Ozzie, fredbob, etc." thing has spiralled out of all proportion and is now to the detriment of the forum as a whole. It can't be healthy.

To be honest, I was just saying what I think when asked the question in the thread header. Sorry, like. Apologies if that is genuinely the case, but it's the impression I get from you the majority of the time in here, whereas in Gen Chat you make fantastic posts like the one about Morocco earlier on. Apology accepted. My posts on Bellamy here may sound a bit sarcastic, because they are, but I am trying to make a point too, and it's a point that I often try to make in a roundabout way -- that we spend far too much time living in the past and mooning around wishfully over long-departed players and managers. Bellamy is history. He should stay that way. Morocco... well, I was in a position to be helpful, so I tried to be. Different kind of discussion. That's fair enough as well, I don't see how anybody could honestly dispute that as any sort of ridiculous opinion or perspective, although I would argue that it's sort of inbuilt into us as Newcastle supporters and it's inbuilt into the club in the way that players/managers always seem to come back, by hook or by crook. Obviously simply because it happens doesn't mean it's right or that it will "work" for us, but I genuinely believe it's part of the romance of being a NUFC fan and I'm not sure I would want to swap it for a less emotional, more robotic approach, despite it often being the cause of most of our woes. I admire the fact that you can distance yourself enough emotionally from the club to have that sort of opinion, like, as I'm not sure I'm quite mature enough/experienced enough to do it myself.

I agree with all of that, as well, not that it really makes any difference.

That is where the "starting it" bit came from. I do get the feeling that you know this, though, and you're just making a monkey out of me by making me stay up at this ridiculous hour to "explain" it to you. If that is the case, then it's a fucking joke as well.

That's what you replied to him, after he'd said nowt about anything bar Bellamy's fitness and his apparent valuation. It wasn't him talking about the old board on this occasion was it. I think it's fair to say it's you causing potential trouble there. For what it's worth I do tend to think Ozzie was looking for bites from you with what he's been posting in here, to be honest, but then really what the fuck is new there? It's unfortunately what he appears to do most of the time in the football forum. so why tell me that "I'm starting it" ? Not that I can't prove the likes of Ozzie talks rubbish, its been done numerous times already. To keep with the topic, I think Bellamy is well worth a fee like has been mentioned as its a weak part of the team, and has been since he left. We are in the shit, and ANY good player could make the difference, and to put a price on survival is simply absurd. But thats the Ashley way of doing things, an attitude which seems to have engulfed people in our support. An equally absurd way of looking at it from the point of view of a club with the support that NUFC have. He might get injured, but unless someone else equally as good who is guaranteed to stay fit becomes available, you tell me who that could be, bearing in mind such a player would undoubtedly cost more money [which I personally would pay if it were up to me]. Are you taking the piss? I've already said in two separate posts now that it's not about Ozzie on this occasion (for the reasons I've outlined to him and he's refuted), it's about bobyule and Mick, who didn't say anything that should have offended you in their posts and who you jumped on with non-contributive posts that were simply looking for a fight and nowt else.

To be honest, I was just saying what I think when asked the question in the thread header. Sorry, like. Apologies if that is genuinely the case, but it's the impression I get from you the majority of the time in here, whereas in Gen Chat you make fantastic posts like the one about Morocco earlier on.

Call me an incurable optimist, but we may be one of the few clubs with cash in hand to spend in the transfer window. We could be in a very good position to prey on the poor and needy (eg West Ham) you like your "ifs" and "coulds" don't you Here's another example of a confrontational post that offers nothing to the discussion and is simply goading Bob, who's said absolutely nothing towards you at all in this thread. It's nowt to do with "backing the person who is wrong", it's a lot to do with being civil and courteous towards other people when you're a grown man. I don't come on here or spend hours of my time trying to make this place work properly for people to be at each other's necks all of the time, it's infuriating.

That's what you replied to him, after he'd said nowt about anything bar Bellamy's fitness and his apparent valuation. It wasn't him talking about the old board on this occasion was it. I think it's fair to say it's you causing potential trouble there. For what it's worth I do tend to think Ozzie was looking for bites from you with what he's been posting in here, to be honest, but then really what the fuck is new there? It's unfortunately what he appears to do most of the time in the football forum.

NE5: Was more meaning your post aimed at Mick, who posted what I thought was a fairly sensible comment - at least the first half of it. Tend to disagree with his valuation comment though, but then I seem to think differently about how you rate a players' worth than most on here do, as I've found out numerous times in the past. Thing is though, I don't go chasing round after the people who disagree with me trying to beat them with a proverbial stick when I've had a shitty day or a few pints or whatever. Grow up and stop acting a cunt man, it's embarrassing.

NE5: Is this you "not starting it", then? Pipe down or fuck off man.

It wasn't just what Bellamy offered in goals, either, he was an awesome weapon - much more effective than Oba at utilising his pace and as good a footballer, if not better than our little Nigerian. I do think those saying his injury record would put them off are right though, and like I said earlier there's no chance of it happening anyway no matter how much I'd like to see him come back.

I still think we'll be alright, but I fucking hate Joe Kinnear with a passion. Fat useless cunt.

Agreed, it would be funny if it wasn't happening to us. You can do nowt but laugh unfortunately. There's nothing any of us can do about the situation, it's pointless worrying about it too much.

No matter what your perspective on the whole issue is, that is absolute quality.

There we go. With those stats by your side you can now start forming effective and factual arguments to backup your opinions. In this instance it's worked a treat.

Just start using ESPN Soccernet "Gamelogs" to get your stats. That goes for everybody really, Google "player name soccernet" and you're generally sorted. It's a fantastic tool. Wikipedia is usually gash.

Ten altogether. Nine of them last season. Or 10 starts this season (9 full games, subbed once on 87 minutes) with 2 sup appearances, and 8 starts last season with 1 sub appearance, he only completed 4 games though. 18 starts and 3 sub appearances, but only 13 games completed. Still not exactly great like, but at least factual.

Surely people just have light/dark tee-shirts? We don't need to wear official footy tops man!

Means we could change teams easily as well if necessary. And I get to see some moobage. Everyone's a winner.

Lights verus darks would be easiest, no racial undertones obviously. White/yellow/orange, etc. versus dark blue/black/dark green, etc. Surely everyone would have stuff from both sides then?

Any day of the fucking week. Would never happen like.

Same here. What a bastard. Done on a tablet Junky? Which one?

I'd be proud to be affiliated with such an upstanding group of individuals.