Rich

Apisith, about Spurs: last season they got to the quarters of the UEFA, quarters of the FA, semis of the League Cup and finished 5th in the Premiership. They also had that massive deal with Mansion in place as well. We, on the other hand, didn't make the quarters of the UEFA (and got a hell of a lot less TV money for each game than Spurs did, if I remember rightly), went out in the 3rd round of the FA, the quarters of the League Cup and finished 13th in the Premiership. Ticket prices at Spurs also far exceed our own, considerably narrowing that gap of 15,000 seats.

Was he? Apparently so, to Fulham.

N'Zogbia was going for £4M last summer. I know he's signed a new deal since then, but people shouldn't be getting too excited about the money we'll get for him if he goes.

Case in point.

A good take on things, and how I look at stuff as well. Sometimes you have to look a bit deeper than just saying "we should have bought him then for that much money" and take everything else into account, the circumstances, too many people don't do that on here and are shown up because of it.

NE5: The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier. Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend. It's a wank argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances. As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then? All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else. At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us. I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a cunt and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

All the players who went out were replaced, in most cases by people who are probably on bigger wages. Barton will be getting shedloads, Viduka is the 2nd highest paid player at the club, Smith will be earning plenty. Some players got improved contracts, etc. More backroom staff was brought in...

I personally would go in heavy this summer and give us a strong chance of qualifying for Europe etc, so I agree with your 3rd para. Profit and income has to be increased and that isn't going to happen with treading water. Why the chuff didn't you say that originally then, you gonk! That way would undoubtedly be a lot more exciting, like, as I've said. I thought you knew I was a slash and burn merchant. Should have bolded the bit I meant in particular, I was gagging for someone to state the alternate route.

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal? That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us. As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney. Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position. He would have been an idiot to come here ahead of Man Utd, undoubtedly, the proof is in the pudding there. One player doesn't make a team and that's even just discounting what it would have meant for Wor Craig, etc. It was a nice thought, if we were playing Football Manager.

I personally would go in heavy this summer and give us a strong chance of qualifying for Europe etc, so I agree with your 3rd para. Profit and income has to be increased and that isn't going to happen with treading water. Why the chuff didn't you say that originally then, you gonk! That way would undoubtedly be a lot more exciting, like, as I've said.

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal? That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us. As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

Cheers Apisith, I was waiting for someone to come in with this argument, I didn't want to have a discussion with myself to be honest. The speculating to accumulate thing has to be mentioned, even though it's a more high-risk strategy. If what they do is trim the fat like Smith, Duff, Emre, etc. and replace them with players like Modric who command hefty fees but smaller wages, then they'll be starting out on the right track. It's a hell of a lot harder to find players like that, though, rather than to go after the likes of Riise, Crouch, etc. We've been speculating to accumulate for years now, like a gambler who just kept chucking it on and building up a tab. Thing is now, we have an owner who could, by rights, afford to do things that way - and fucking hell it would be a lot more exciting. This is what I hoped this thread would be about, though, to see whether people would back the high-risk strategy over the "Spurs" strategy.

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially. Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well... It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be. A na man, that's why I said of the complications, but a player like Rooney can be the cornerstone of your team for years to come. Someone that talented who is within your grasp, you just have to go for them. Weren't Northern Rock going to be putting the money up for Rooney as well? Sure something like that rings a bell. I think Northern Rock "putting the money up" was simply them giving us the sponsorship money in one go, rather than in staggered payments, like they did for Owen. It's a bit different then, isn't it? I'd also say that it's incredibly unlikely to think that Rooney would have stayed here "for years". As soon as a bigger club came in for him, he'd have been away. Man Utd were in a position to buy Rooney and surround him with other top class players. We weren't, unfortunately. If we'd got him, that would have been that for I dunno how long. The money was drying up - most of it wasn't even ours, in fact.

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ? Then ask yourself why we have finshed 12th/13th. I thought you rated Smith?? Mort wasn't the chairman when we bought Duff, was he? I'll give you Cacapa and Rozehnal, but Barton looks like sorting himself out. If you'd known that those players were going to be poor though, why didn't you give the club a ring to let them know!? You don't want us to fail, do you? :-[

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially. Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well... It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be.

So we were at 72% after the Owen compensation came in? Oh dear.

Fulham? (If they stay up.)

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy? possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ? Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now? no, he was a quality player, its others who use such daft phrases. He was quality like, bit injury prone mind.

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already. Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc. Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

I think I love that.

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy? possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ? Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now?

What question about Owen ? I've answered most things I've seen, unlike other people that I ask, and you know who they are. I also haven't got all day to spend on here too. About how at 2 years into his deal, where he'd probably taken upwards of £10M off us in wages and cost us £16M, he'd played less than 14 games and scored 7 goals - making his signing a bit of a disaster at that point, to say the least. well, if you'd known that was going to happen, you should have rang the club and told them !! I tried!! Thing is, Shepherd would never speak to the fans man. If Mort had been there, the whole thing could have been avoided!

...and Robert.

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy?

What question about Owen ? I've answered most things I've seen, unlike other people that I ask, and you know who they are. I also haven't got all day to spend on here too. About how at 2 years into his deal, where he'd probably taken upwards of £10M off us in wages and cost us £16M, he'd played less than 14 games and scored 7 goals - making his signing a bit of a disaster at that point, to say the least.