Rich

Then Allardyce should have bought players to fit his system in the summer. Best points return we've had in the opening two games of the Premiership season since 97/98 (ten fucking years ago) and people are still making comments like this I'd say it's probably too early to say, but it certainly hasn't been the disaster it's being made out to be so far... and did we not switch to 4-4-2 against Villa when Owen came on? He's spent over £20 million and people are saying he hasn't got the strikers or midfielders for this formation, as I've said he should of bought different then. That's not me moaning, perhaps I should join the Toon Ultra's and swing my trainers around my head like some sort of idiot if it'll make me sound less negative, or even do a NSG "We're gonna win the league" speach on SSN, I'll see what I can do. "People are saying"... that's all it is, people who know far less about football than Sam Allardyce and probably even Chris Mort are saying we don't have the players to play 4-3-3, I've said I'm happy to wait and see, surely that's a fairly sensible stance to take before I do any criticising/questioning? Are we even going to be playing 4-3-3 every time? Was it not just sort of dictated to Allardyce after the Bolton performance and because of the injuries/Solano's head not being the right place? We played 4-4-2 more than 4-3-3 in the friendly games, which leads me to believe that it would be Big Sam's formation of choice if the right players were available for it (Solano/Milner on the flanks seemed to be his pick because of the need to play N'Zogbia at LB and the lack of Damien Duff.) And, if you did either of the things you mention in the last paragraph then I'd be delighted. You'd be far less boring Now you're trying to twist it, my point was clearly that if he wants to play 4-3-3 but hasn't got the players for it, then he should have bought different. If he doesn't want to play 4-3-3 then the comment becomes hypothetical and doesn't really matter, as for the things I've suggested, I'd rather cut my eyes out than do either to be perfectly honest with you. I did mention 4-4-2 in my first response, so I'm not trying to twist it "now", I've been trying that since my first input. The point of me initially bringing that in was because people are assuming we're playing this 4-3-3 whatever the weather, and in response to HTT's comment you simply said "then Allardyce should have bought players to fit his system in the summer", apparently implying that "if he wants to play 4-3-3 but hasn't got the players for it, then he should have bought different". My point was: what if his system is a 4-4-2? Has he bought the right players for that? It's surely "expanding the debate", rather than making the original comment hypothetical. That's all I was trying to do.

Hey, we're all in here supporting your thread, propelling it towards greatness with our mere presence. "The Dirty Hun" did raise my eyebrows mind, is changing it to "Germany" out of respect for Isegrim a good enough reason to do so?

I hope not, because Allardyce would surely be near the top of the list to take over? If anything, I'm supporting McLaren's England from now on, for that reason above all others. As for mod's with giant ego's - slanderous!

Then Allardyce should have bought players to fit his system in the summer. Best points return we've had in the opening two games of the Premiership season since 97/98 (ten fucking years ago) and people are still making comments like this I'd say it's probably too early to say, but it certainly hasn't been the disaster it's being made out to be so far... and did we not switch to 4-4-2 against Villa when Owen came on? He's spent over £20 million and people are saying he hasn't got the strikers or midfielders for this formation, as I've said he should of bought different then. That's not me moaning, perhaps I should join the Toon Ultra's and swing my trainers around my head like some sort of idiot if it'll make me sound less negative, or even do a NSG "We're gonna win the league" speach on SSN, I'll see what I can do. "People are saying"... that's all it is, people who know far less about football than Sam Allardyce and probably even Chris Mort are saying we don't have the players to play 4-3-3, I've said I'm happy to wait and see, surely that's a fairly sensible stance to take before I do any criticising/questioning? Are we even going to be playing 4-3-3 every time? Was it not just sort of dictated to Allardyce after the Bolton performance and because of the injuries/Solano's head not being the right place? We played 4-4-2 more than 4-3-3 in the friendly games, which leads me to believe that it would be Big Sam's formation of choice if the right players were available for it (Solano/Milner on the flanks seemed to be his pick because of the need to play N'Zogbia at LB and the lack of Damien Duff.) And, if you did either of the things you mention in the last paragraph then I'd be delighted. You'd be far less boring

precisely. Thirded. When was the last time we could say this? 96?

Then Allardyce should have bought players to fit his system in the summer. Best points return we've had in the opening two games of the Premiership season since 97/98 (ten fucking years ago) and people are still making comments like this I'd say it's probably too early to say, but it certainly hasn't been the disaster it's being made out to be so far... and did we not switch to 4-4-2 against Villa when Owen came on?

The same could have been said about us on a West Ham board over the Dyer saga a few week back... I wonder if we've tapped the player in question up weeks in advance to a move being made as well? Fair play if we have done and now Bolton won't sell to us.

I should have written out a predicted reply, because after I made that post I knew exactly what you would come back with. Quite gutted that I didn't now, actually, because it would have read almost exactly the same as what you wrote yourself. You're changing the debate because I've proven you wrong with what you said in your initial post, the bit in particular that I bolded, at least. If you don't think Nicky Butt dives into tackles on a regular basis then you clearly see a different player to me every week, because I'm basing this on what I see with my own two eyes AND what the statistics tell me. Nicky Butt gave away more fouls than anyone else last season, as well, but surely that's down to the nature of his position and nothing else, eh? I'm sure they were all the "right" sort of foul, as well, from what you saw - but my memory tells me differently. I have no interest in discussing our central midfield against Villa or the selection of Alan Smith in the defensive midfield role, because it's not what this was originally about. Until I've seen Alan Smith play the same role as Nicky Butt does, for Newcastle, I'll reserve judgement and I don't see what the "creativity" of the central midfield against Villa has to do with anything here, other than it being an attempt to sway the debate from it's original path. I will say one thing, whenever people complain about a "lack of creativity" from the centre of the park in a certain game it's always a safe bet to assume that Nicky Butt has been playing there in that particular match. This agenda stuff is easy. I agree that the original comparison was fairly "ridiculous", but if that was the case, then why comment on it like you did... by comparing Smith to Butt? The Speed thing was relevant, by the way, well... at least as relevant about the stuff you wrote about Smith/Dyer in regards to the original point that McCormick made on the two players. I'm not sure if Nicky Butt has ever adequately replaced anything that Speedo offered us while he was here... and Gary Speed didn't want to leave, either, unlike Dyer. Vendetta-tastic, man, just like it was at times against Parker last season from your sort. I'm praying to fuck that Smith proves you wrong and I have faith in him to do so.

Looks like Martins is being made available for the right price. Dontcha think? He's available at £13m whether we like or not. f*** all to do with him being made available. True, but those Allardyce quotes practically read like we've started an advertisement campaign to get shot of him. Captain Pessimist returns You do have a point, although not to the extent that you've taken it.

I'd only worry about his apparent slowness. He should be a step-up from Craig Moore, though.

Because Butt can read the game better, break up play without lunging tackles and doesn't give numerous freekicks away every game, Butt also didn't cost £6 million and wasn't a replacement for a player with pace who stretches games. Butt is a DM and does his job well, Smith is a striker/midfielder and does neither job particularly well, to say both players are similar is ridiculous. You must watch a different Nicky Butt to me, Baggio. Instead of just using my own opinion from what I've seen of him since he came, I went and did a bit of digging on stats so far this season because since Smith has arrived I'm not sure if what you said was entirely true: Player Tackles Success Interceptions Alan Smith 7 100,0% 2 Nicky Butt 9 66,7% 1 Both of them have committed 5 fouls in our two league games so far, as well. Both have won 3, as well. Not that I put much weight on pure statistics, ever, (especially after two games) but they are fairly useful at times like this. *Strokes chin* EDIT: Should really add that while Butt didn't cost £6M when he arrived he actually replaced a far better/more important player than Kieron Dyer, both on and off the field, and I'm not sure if we got Nicky Butt for £1M less than the bloke he was replacing - like we have done with Smith/Dyer. Something to mull over there, as well.

Carr is the odd man out currently, as NSG alluded to. If we don't get a specialist RB then one of the centre-halves will play there ahead of the portly Irishman. I'd assume that all of them could play there to a good level.

I would. Me too. Rozehnal is yet to put a foot wrong.

Never mind, eh? They still have Jason Euell. Tuncay can play up top as well, mind, and he's not a bad player.

I would not be upset if this happened. Not entirely sure it would be as simple as that, mind. Why the feck don't Man Utd just buy Anelka? Or Berbatov?

Moody and Moodier. They probably will try and bid for him, like. If the full extent of this £11M is getting reinvested, and they don't just have £4-5M of it left after Mido's purchase. Mido and Aliadiere for Viduka and Yakubu... not brilliant.

Well, Mido is nailed-on to explode in a shower of cake and sulking at some point..... Exactly, somebody else of a similar nature would be delightful. I've heard there's a lad called Luque available for about £5m.

Might watch this now, like.

Best avatar, ever. That kid in the red reminds me of someone. As for Yakubu to Everton... they are looking more and more interesting by the transfer. Here's hoping 'Boro splash it on someone utterly toss.

Not exactly the most outlandish bit of ITK'ing after today's stories, is it

I heard a fair bit from the top of the Gallowgate, not massive amounts, but there was a definite undercurrent beneath the mild applause. It would have just been a few little groups/individuals scattered about, methinks.

I think we can read into a bit: attitude, age, the faff of the two transfers actually being done in the next 10 days, the fact Martins has just committed his future to us, that Anelka might not even want to come... We understand

Then Fulham away, where they don't usually fare too well in the Premiership if I'm not mistaken. Then Arsenal at WHL. Tasty.

Man Utd away this weekend, an' all. Lovely.

I couldn't hear anything on Saturday where I was sitting, something has changed since last season most definitely. Couldn't hear a word the stand-in bloke was saying and the music was barely audible as well, couldn't even say what was played before/after the players came out of the tunnel, bar Carl Orf. Someone's been fiddling with PA Guy's volume settings.