Rich

The story itself or the streamers? I think there is some interest in the new Chairman/owners putting a lot of stock into the atmosphere and the fact that they're meeting the Toon Ultras and all that as well shows they're willing to listen to the fans more than the previous board. I see what you're saying though in regards to how blindingly obvious it is generally, not a bad thing to kick a few people up the arse tomorrow though surely?

Sorry, I'll remember to use the correct word next time, I can see how it can move the goalposts so to speak. Aye, I wasn't slagging him by saying he only plays well for a few games a year, I was saying he is exceptional/invaluable for that many games, but equally useless/invisible for the same/a larger amount otherwise. I do actually rate Dyer, the player. Are you in a huff? I am, because you didn't read my three paragraphs, and it took a few minutes to write them! Then you had the cheek to say I don't read your posts. This question smacks of being beaten-down argument-wise though, as does your Smith post in the playmaker thread! I've acknowladged that he wanted to go when I didn't argue the case when you said it, I said something along the lines of "I didn't say anything about whether he wanted to leave" or words to that affect, I didn't come out and say he wasn't to leave though. You didn't mention anything regarding him "wanting" to leave until my 3rd/4th prompt, you merely acknowledged he'd been sold. Pernickety, again, I know I seem to remember it being a "Bolton fans arn't happy " with a link to their site as to take the piss out of their misery, I wasn't using it to say he was a good player. Aye, but you've actively went looking for some Bolton fans' opinions on Faye, which is a bit of strange thing to do for someone who doesn't "care what fans of other clubs think of a player leaving", to paraphrase a bit, if you ask me. Why are you arguing with me then? That was me sort of doing a general summary asserting that I've won this gargantuan battle, after having dragged you over to having basically the same opinion as me on the two players. :parky: Previous to that, I've been arguing with you to feed your craving for conflict since Vic's departure, seeing how I've had nowt better to do with my time either. It's been lovely. I hope all that was old-school "NE5" enough for you, I understand you need your fix. Is this one over, now?

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some f****** stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far. Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet. i think people have taken my comment the wrong way.. it wasnt meant to bash smith at all. i rate smith highly im saying that in terms of creativity dyer (on his day) has him beat. i guess it wasnt very well written because i didnt mean to imply that smith's passing was poor in any way.. simply highlighting dyers strengths and what we will miss. then again i doubt we'll see smith blaze past players like dyer used to. i personally just want to see a player of the same mould as dyer, but preferrably with more hunger. Apologies from my end too, wasn't necessarily calling your fine self a "Smith basher", was just saying even those sorts would be stretching to claim he was a worse passer/finisher than Dyer. You're spot-on about losing his pace, which is a concern I can see myself as plain as day, but I'm hoping/thinking it won't be a major factor in this new Allardyce team.

Who rattled your cage? Was interested in people's thoughts on the 4000 streamers in the East Stand more than anything, the number of replies about it seems to suggest people are happy to give their opinions, as well.

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some fucking stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far. Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet.

We played some direct football Alex but its stretching it to say its some of the most direct seen. Maybe he wasnt about when Reilly, Cunningham, Pingel or Rob McDonald were here. We still used Rob Lee, Ginola and Beardsley constructively rather than pumping it over their heads. It was direct by KK standards but miles away from the Bolton sides Sam put together. I agree, I was taking the middle ground really. Some of the most direct I've personally seen from a Newcastle side, Pie, not "ever seen". I'm not the oldest. Direct isn't necessarily bad, is it? Especially when it's done well. And direct certainly doesn't equate to "long ball".

This is what I was getting at under Keegan, sorry if the wording was confusing. From what I've seen on videos since, a lot of our goals come from having the power of Ferdinand and Shearer up front. Even before then we used Ferdinand as a target man and weren't afraid to knock balls up for him to contest. My point was back then we were masters of an "attractive" way of playing that style of football, which was actually brilliant to watch. It happened to a lesser degree under Robson when Shearer was aging and we had Bellamy up beside him, the big-man/little-man combination was the focal point of what was, essentially, a direct gameplan with some flair sprinkled in thanks to Nobby and Robert.

Baggio "Have you read anything I've said?" Right then, *woop woop*, hypocrisy alert: 1) I said "excellent" for 3-5 games a season and invisible for a fair few as well, nothing about having 3-5 "good" games. 2) I thought this might have shown you I had actually read your post: "If we're simply arguing about the quality of his replacement here, then fair enough." Leading me into discussing my thoughts on what you call an "inferior" replacement - did you miss them 3 paragraphs where I was trying to have a debate with you by addressing your concerns? 3) I haven't seen you acknowledge that Dyer wanted to leave in any of your posts in this thread today... have you written it in white writing? Apologies if you're talking about a post from another day/in another thread, I don't read everything posted. 4) However, I'm sure I do recall a post from you commenting on Bolton's fans' reactions to Faye's departure as well, odd from someone who doesn't pay attention to what opposition fans think of a player leaving. You've now been broken down to admitting that both Smith and Dyer would be substitutes, but Dyer would be a better option from the bench. Bit of a come-down, if you ask me, and a lot nearer the truth of the matter at hand. Not a great difference between the players at all, except Dyer might be a better option from the bench because of his pace, which has been sort of my point all along.

I would have said Carlos Edwards, but he's just got crocked. Maybe when he's back to full fitness.

Exactly, since Robson we've been jack of all trades and master of none, which will never get you anywhere.

Its not called long-ball its called 'direct' when he is your own manager. Bolton have played far better football than we have for the last 3 years like, unless I've been watching the wrong teams during that spell. We played some of the most "direct" football I've seen with Ferdinand and/or Shearer up front under Keegan and Robson, I don't remember too many people complaining then.

Also, I can live with so-called/stereotyped "long ball shite" if it results in more 3-1 away wins and a 6th place finish.

I'm hoping we won't be playing the same long ball shite that Bolton did tbh, they also had better midfielders than Smith in Campo and Speed. Seriously then mate where does Smith fit in as far as a 4-3-3 formation goes? Would he be in you starting 11? I don't pick the team, Allardyce does, and I'm assuming Smith will be one of his first names on the team-sheet, aye, even when we have everyone fit. More-so than Dyer would have been. Personally I'm not sure if I would have picked Dyer OR Smith myself, given a full-strength squad and either the 4-4-2/4-3-3 formation. Milner (Dyer would be pushing for this role), Geremi, Barton, N'Zogbia/Emre, Viduka, Owen would probably be my front-six in a 4-4-2. Geremi, Barton, Emre (Smith would be pushing for this role), Owen, Martins, Viduka would probably be my front-six in a 4-3-3. No room for Dyer, or his replacement Smith, which sounds about right to me. It's very like-for-like in my eyes ability-wise, the attitude is the major thing and will see Smith being a success here, IMO.

Baggio You're still glossing over the fact that Dyer wanted to leave, man, which is a major aspect of this debate. Of course Dyer *could* play either side of Viduka, or in the middle three, but how is it relevant when he was itching to move, the fans had turned against him, his head "wasn't right" and he wasn't being selected in squads? If we're simply arguing about the quality of his replacement here, then fair enough. I personally think you're doing Smith a disservice and over-hyping Dyer out of proportion, when in reality he was excellent for about 3-5 games a season and invisible for a fair few others, when he was fit, of course. The Manchester United fans I know (not a massive number, admittedly) aren't happy that he's gone, especially now Ronaldo and Rooney are missing for a bit and Saha is injured, they were gutted even before that. Smith's attitude and work-rate does get the most press, but he's a canny player in his own right apart from that and I'm hoping he proves it this season and proves people like yourself completely wrong. I think the complete opposite to you, that he's a better/more consistent performer than Dyer (maybe he won't be unplayable on those rare occasions like Dyer was) but I think he'll shock a few people with how good he is on the ball/with how much he offers to our general play Allardyce obviously rates him massively and the lad can - and will - play anywhere in the front six to an acceptable degree, he's more versatile than Dyer, less injury prone and he wants to play for this football club. Massive advantages in their own right. He's slower, aye, and he's scored less goals than Dyer recently, but the quality gap is minimal at best, either way.

I have to say I heard it plenty of times when he first arrived, tended not to join in too much mind.

Bolton didn't do too badly under Allardyce, and they were miles fucking slower than us, barring Anelka (last season) and Diouf before that. Pace is a useful attribute in the right areas (either side of Viduka, predominantly, and at full-back if we're being greedy) but it's not the be-all and end-all. People just get tetchy when everything seems to be going well, if we lose to Villa they'll have something tangible to "worry" about again.

Howay Derby, is all I can say.

More to do with the new Chairman/Board than the manager, surely?

Setanta Sports.

With "3 goals in 70 games" written under it...

Actually lad I didn't mention anything about the reason for him leaving the club, simply pointing out how hypocritical some people seem over the whole thing (not you, I mean in general) and that he's been a big part of the success the club has had in recent years. I'm not looking for a bite out of anyone, perhaps I should stick with the stock reply of the majority of the idiots on here and wish he breaks his legs etc, if it'll keep you happy. You know that's not what I meant at all. And, as proven, there are idiots who have hated Dyer whether he's been good or bad, injured or fit, scoring or not-scoring, that's never been my game and it never will be. It's also not what I was getting at. I don't see people like that as being hypocrites, they've stuck to their bong-eyed line from day one. Personally I think we might miss him on the park for the reasons you mention, but he had to go now, so there's no point crying over spilt milk. But we've replaced a player who didn't want to be here with a player who does, the quality difference between them as players is minimal if you ask me and is far less clear-cut than you're making it out to be, but the attitude thing could play a major role in determining how well they do for their respective clubs. Dyer was a spent force here, but might recapture something like his best form at West Ham and good luck to the lad, but surely Smith is a step in the right direction for a number of other reasons, not just his playing ability? You're looking at things as very black and white here, no pun intended, more goes into how well players do at club's than your opinion on who the better one is. Smith isn't the better of the two, in your opinion, but you're ignoring the fact that he might be exactly what Allardyce wants in his team for how he wants us to play. I don't see a role for Dyer in the 4-3-3/4-5-1 thing, personally, especially a Dyer who didn't want to be here a minute longer. My original point was that a lot of people saw KD as the last piece of the past that needed to go and now he's gone I'd assume it will do nothing but increase the feelgood factor around the club, be it right or wrong. Like I said, I can appreciate both sides of the argument, but at the end of the day more people wanted him gone than wanted him to stay so we've got happier fans and a replacement who will hopefully be given a chance to show what he can do. Smith is Dyer's replacement, if you ask me. You're right on that.

Okay I'll bite, nothing better to do: You're forgetting/purposefully omitting that the player himself wanted to go, though, and we still got big money for him. So there was nothing we could have done anyway, except get the best price possible. Quite a major oversight, if you ask me, if it was actually unintentional. :parky:

If his exit is making a canny few people feel like this, then I'm happy about it as well. Not fussed either way initially, but anything to improve the general mood of the fanbase is useful.

Definitely a good idea.

Wayhey, but you have to inform people before they learn. Not everyone is a master of the ALT system.