Rich

How is it not based on fact? What are the facts again? We've been told he has a clause which was trigged when we didn't achieve European football, and that's all we've been told. We've now been told that ends on 31st July, which sounds to me like it was for this year only, and that logically means as long as we get European football next season the clause wont be triggered again. I'm not guessing what went before to guess what might happen after, just what we've been told about it so far from FS and the original slip that FS reacted too, and the latest news about it running out. This clause going down in price was only paper talk and has not been backed up by anyone reliable so far. "How is it not based on fact?" • You are arguing based on speculation, much like myself, albeit speculation that says different. You said what I was arguing on was "all speculation", which it is, but like I've already said so is everything that you're using to back-up your argument. "What are the facts again?"/"July 31st" • The facts are that Owen has a minimum release clause in his contract and that the clause becomes void on August 1st 2007. The contentious issue is whether it becomes void for good or void for another season. Shepherd himself says that this means Owen has to stay "another year" - nothing at all about the clause itself being terminated for good, which makes it look more likely that the clause will re-surface next summer. 'European Football'/'Champions League' • Again, all speculation. You surely cannot knock my opinion for using "paper talk" and then say "everything we've been told says 'European Football', not 'Champions League'" when "everything we've been told" will have been through the media as well? "As long as we get European Football the clause won't be triggered again" • This is one thing you might have right, I can't deny that, as it's the main bone of contention here. Of course we'll probably get the answer to this someway down the line, but for now I'm not sure how it can be entirely "logical" to argue what you have done when Shepherd mentioned the "another year" line and when you take into account the clause was still rumoured at £13M or so when we qualified for the Intertoto in 2006 (before Owen got crocked at the WC.) "The clause going down in price..." • Again, I can't argue that this couldn't be bollocks, but to me it seems a likely/sensible solution to the clauses. It ties in with what some media outlets have reported on the Owen deal since the early days, but like you say we don't have any concrete evidence either way. It does strike me as funny that he has around an alleged £9M release clause two years into his deal, though, after initial reports of around £13M before the 2006 World Cup. Again, we won't know the facts on this until the summer, which is a pain in the arse. "Shepherd" • I can't help but smile that we're both using Fat Fred as a reliable source here, either, after some of his past words/actions

I wish people would stop saying this. NO he didn't He did say it on that YouTube video, in fairness. Not that I'd advocate our chairman spilling his guts to some Smoggie-Scouse mongs in a van, like. The clause was publicly denied though, was it not? (Elsewhere?) He initially publicly denied there was a clause for him to leave a year after he signed, but said that there are clauses. AS for the youtube video, he can hardly be held to that, and in fact he said "He can't leave for £9million" - which itook as meaning the clause is higher than 9 - which it is, 9.5 Is it defo £9.5M? Or is this more of that famed "speculation" stuff?

I wish people would stop saying this. NO he didn't He did say it on that YouTube video, in fairness. Not that I'd advocate our chairman spilling his guts to some Smoggie-Scouse mongs in a van, like. The clause was publicly denied though, was it not? (Elsewhere?)

At least this looks like something which we'll get a definitive answer to, unlike most debates on here. I suppose all we can do is wait until next Summer and see what happens then. Aside from that, the CL only thing is a gamble the club would have had to take to even get Owen to come at all. It's not hard to see how we could have been so desperate to get him that the contract would be ridiculously tilted in his favour, Shepherd admits to as much today. There was no public admittance of the clause until Allardyce came and Shepherd was as good as gone though, so that has nowt to do with anything really. Plus, as I've already said, Owen was injured for almost 12 months in June - which meant he couldn't have gone anywhere anyway, meaning the clause was as good as void anyway because no bugger was going to buy him after the Sweden game. Of course it's speculation, but it seems the most logical to me, what you're arguing has no basis in fact either. The Owen/Liverpool thing isn't worth a jot either, it was years ago man, he's been there and done that - ever looked at it that way? Why would he want to play WAFFA Cup football again when he's never done the biggest thing and won the CL?

Surely it's Champions League though, why would Owen stay because of the UEFA Cup? We didn't have to worry about this much in 2006 because he was utterly crocked so nobody was going to buy him anyway for the suggested £13M release clause (which was still rumoured at the time, unless I'm mistaken.) This summer the release clause is apparently down to around £9M or so from all accounts and we were in danger of losing him because he's not currently going to miss the "entire season" - although he probably will miss most of it. It will be interesting to see how things go in a year's time but I'd be fairly confident that unless something is done with his contract that we'll see him leaving for around £5M if he hasn't been plagued by injuries again and if someone comes in for him. Then people will say it's not too bad because he only had a year left on his contract, anyway. Probably.

That was all just media speculation though was it not? By the looks of it, on Wednesday there'll be no get out for him. But Shepherd himself says that Owen will have to stay for "another year" from August 1st, which says to me that the clause is re-activated next summer. He doesn't say anything about this being the end of the clause for good. The 20% thing seems the most reliable/likely answer to me from all that I've seen/heard.

I thought it was a continual thing? That his value drops by 20% a season for each year of his contract? (The rumoured £9m-ish release ties in with this theory.) i.e. He'll be able to leave for something like £6.5M next summer if somebody wants him? If it does depend on our own European status then I'd assume it'd be Champions League or bust.

"Viduka however isn't being mentioned as a participant in this game as yet - confirming our original suspicions of a Sampdoria runout one week before hostilities commence." from NUFC.com

Dyer's definitely not playing from what I can gather. Why would he be left out against Celtic only to play against Juventus? Suppose we'll just find out when we get there!

Any news of Viduka for this one? Heard conflicting reports and there's nowt in the rags/on the official site about him today. Can't imagine he'll be involved this soon after his Asian exploits, though.

This is a very valid point like, the same one I used when we were linked with Woodgate last summer. It's all well and good having a top-class defender for half the games a season - but it does you absolutely no favours in the other half. Campbell only missed 6 league games for Portsmouth last season, though, which isn't too bad and bodes quite well for the fact that he can still "do it" at the top level if looked after properly. Going by this logic as well, we still need another first-choice pair of fullbacks as well as a centre-half! Wasn't aware Campbell played so many games, perhaps it'd be worth the risk then. On the full backs issue, it looks likely that Geremi will spend a lot, perhaps most of his time elsewhere, and we all know we need a left back anyway, so yes I'd say we need a RB, LB and two CBs, or keep Geremi at RB and buy a CM instead. Basically we need 4 more players, 3 absolute minimum, and they need to be decent at the very least. Agree completely. I think I've been doing a brilliant job of keeping calm/patient, but my arse is twitching now. Two weeks 'til the big kick-off and we do ideally need a RB, LB and CB - at the least. Then there's Dyer leaving... I do think we'll get Campbell, like.

This is a very valid point like, the same one I used when we were linked with Woodgate last summer. It's all well and good having a top-class defender for half the games a season - but it does you absolutely no favours in the other half. Campbell only missed 6 league games for Portsmouth last season, though, which isn't too bad and bodes quite well for the fact that he can still "do it" at the top level if looked after properly. Going by this logic as well, we still need another first-choice pair of fullbacks as well as a centre-half!

Have to agree with this. Salgado has looked very similar to Carr whenever I've seen him for Real over the past few seasons. Wouldn't be thrilled with him, but what do I know?

I'd still be confident of getting Campbell plus one more and I'd be fairly satisfied if we took the gamble on his fitness. Campbell alone obviously wouldn't be ideal, but if it was a choice between him and nothing then it's a no-brainer. To me it seems like Campbell plus Davies would have perfect for next season (unless CD would have been demanding first-team football from the word "go".) I'm not thrilled with the prospect of Ramage being 4th in the queue for a starting place at centre-half. Campbell played 30-odd games for Portsmouth last season if I'm not mistaken and if we got anywhere near that out of him this year then it'd be a massive bonus. I've wanted him here since he became "available" and I'd still love it if we got him now, not just for what he could add on the pitch but for what he could do for the team/squad on the whole - especially for the young defenders we already have at the club. He's slowing down, but I still think he's exactly what we've needed for a long time here.

Saw a lad getting battered to fuck at the SJP Metro sign as well while waiting to go into the ground. Was Celtic on Celtic though and they all looked rough as fuck. Not the nicest set of away fans I've ever seen. Neds, as Bluf'd call them.

We just played Celtic last summer though and Juventus in the fairly recent past as well, when did Villa last play a friendly against a team of Inter's class at home? They're arguably a lot bigger/more exciting than the clubs who we're playing. Apologies if you have recently played a team of their stature at Villa Park, just haven't noticed if you did. It's your only home friendly as well this summer as far as I can see and a bit of a "glamour" tie at that, whereas we have 3 home games as well as three relatively local trips to "smaller" clubs that a fair few have shelled out on. I certainly wouldn't call it reasonable almost immediately after spending £500 on a season ticket as well!

£15 for adults, £5 for kids. U11's get in free with a paying adult (2 max).

Celtic fans reckon they've got 3,000-4,000 tickets, if that's any help to anyone. I'd expect just under 30,000 on the whole tomorrow.

I agree with this... for now.

We've been interested in almost anybody who has gone to another club if the papers are to be believed.

Cheers Bob! Was starting to eat away at me because I couldn't think of anybody else.

I'm sure he never played a game for us, thinking back on it. I was 7/8 at the time he was here like so my opinion may not be entirely accurate.

All relative concerns at the minute, unfortunately. Let's just hope things get resolved sooner rather than later.

Today's question asks us to name the 7 players who have played for NUFC in the Premiership whose surnames all end in "Y"... I have got six definites: Batty, Beardsley, Bellamy, Brady, Howey and Huckerby. However, Steve Guppy came to mind but I'm not sure if he ever actually played for us from 93/94 onwards and then there's Matty Appleby who might be the same again. Can some bright-spark finish this off for me, preferably without being a dirty cheater?