Rich

Not really, like, on the "fucking my argument" side of things. As you've addressed one point of about six I made alongside it. For that particular point, then definitely a bit, but not to the point of it it being totally "fucked". It's still an unfair way to judge players because Owen has played at a higher level than both for a much longer amount of time and Martins played for Inter from being a "bairn", almost. It's more impressive to sustain goalscoring for a longer spell, obviously. Re: your "cup run" point - no mention of the fact that Martins has scored a fair few goals in the Champions League, as has Owen, etc. So it's not all about playing teams like "Blackpool", at all. That's why I said it works both ways, not just against Crouch/against Martins, etc. You used the league goals because you used Wikipedia, is my guess. Also, I haven't seen anyone in this particular thread (or elsewhere) specifically say Martins is "much better than Crouch", either. Who, exactly, are you showing up? Poor attempt at back-tracking, like. Must try harder.

I thought Rocker's point that he shouldn't have been released because he's got fit sisters?

Completely agree. I agree with Vic's sentiment that Crouch probably shouldn't be bought (if that's what he was attempting to show), for the reasons that you state. I would like to see us try something new and with a better striker than Crouch, it's all about movement these days - something that we're sorely lacking and something that buying someone like Crouch probably won't help all that much.

Not to mention it's only league goals included, probably because Vic couldn't be arsed to look anywhere other than Wikipedia.

Diego Forlan has 0.38 goals per game, that's .05 better than Martins. Sign him now.

About 10 people on the previous page certainly saw it.

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either. what fucking things? goals per game when comparing strikers? aye fucking useless... It's such a flawed method of argument, man. I thought you were more sensible than that. "I don't want Crouch here, so I'll post the goal ratios of him, Martins and Owen" - never mind how many times they were substitute, or how many games they've actually played, or for what team in what competition, or how many goals they've created, or how well they've played aside from scoring... it's such a superficial way of judging a player it's unreal. Exactly the type of thing you chastise the majority of other posters on here for. Crouch has played for some bloody shite teams and in lower divisions, while Martins/Owen have been at the top of the footballing world from almost the word go in their professional careers, it's a dud comparison and it always has been. It's the sort of mediocre post on here that you're usually very much against. I could post goal records of a dozen strikers like that and use it as a claim that we should sign them, with nothing else along with it and if I did that, or someone else did that, you'd be the first one to call it "shite" if it didn't go along with your personal viewpoint. There was no comment on it, nothing, it was just utter garbage man. Shall I just go and get their total appearances from somewhere and use that to say whether they are injury prone or not and then just stick it up here without any backstory or any comment?

Story Looks like someone has told Carr how much he is generally loathed and he/the club are beginning a media campaign to keep him here, because I certainly don't recall him coming across this well in an interview before... I cannot see him leaving the summer, seriously. Which is a great, great shame.

Berbatov has been fairly decent in other areas, though, mate. Not everything is based on goal records/ratios, is it?

Where's this come from, then? (Source?)

Fairly useless post, Vic, all things considered. Not just concerning Crouch, either.

I agree with you, but we will have a fair bit more than £11m to spend this summer, surely.

It certainly makes sense and is more in fitting with Roeder's so-called "policy" for this Summer. I cannot see Crouch's value increasing if we buy him, but we may well get more than what we paid in a future sale if we can manage to snare Babel (as we should do with Martins.) Babel would certainly appear to be more of a long-term investment, than a quick fix. I get the feeling that when the pressure is on Roeder, like now, he will not hesitate to find "quick fixes", though, as he's desperate to succeed in his "dream job" and will probably do anything possible to keep the seat.

Rubbish, man. In this thread the debate has purely been about why we haven't seen more of him in the team ahead of Huntington, nobody else. I think most people are sensible enough to know that we look at our best with Babayaro at left-back (oh those rare occasions) and that Duff is probably more useful there, as well. Toon83 doesn't count, as he posted after you, btw!

Those shorts/socks are the most rancid/cheap-looking I've seen for a long while.

Aye, agreed. Unless one of Owen/Martins is leaving? I cannot see the Stick Insect coming here unless he was promised first-team football. Would be nice to have a squad of high-quality strikers, mind, but it's exceptionally hard to achieve for a squad who's not in Europe. If we are to buy a striker of this sort, I'd still prefer Zigic - as they'd probably cost the same and from what I've seen in La Liga/Internationals the Serbian is a far more dominant presence than Crouch and has a lot of technical ability, as well. I'm not as much against the "direct" route as everyone else seems to be. From what I remember we've played the best football of my lifetime by playing quick, direct football revolving around a target-man of a striker (Ferdinand/Shearer). With a "tinkerer" alongside, though (Beardsley/Bellamy.)

All I've read people saying is that he's looked better than Huntington and has had two very good performances against Man Utd and West Ham, and so deserves another chances AHEAD of Huntington. I love it when people accuse others of "going off the deep end" about something, when the majority have done nothing of the sort.

How about Julio Arca? He hasn't got much physical presence though he is not tiny by any means. Nor he is fast. But he has football intelligence and passing abilities, so far he's done a very good job water carrying for Boro despite being a left back by trade. But Solano probably doesn't have the stamina and leg to run the midfield whole match. How I wish Solano is 10 years younger! Arca is certainly quicker, taller and he has more stamina than the Nobby Solano of today. Nobby has never been a player who can play in limited amounts of space, which is why his move to right-back has increased his performances when he hasn't been under constant pressure from the opposition. However, in central midfield this would be a completely different story and you seem to have glossed-over the fact that dribbling is one of Arca's main strengths, whereas I personally haven't seen Nobby go on anything resembling a "dribble" for seasons now. Nobby's game is all about receiving the ball in a bit of space and picking out a pass ahead of him, or being involved in neat link-up play (provided he has a lot of movement around him - his "partnership" with Dyer is testament to this.) Central midfield is the most competitive area on the pitch and he would simply be closed-down, closed-down, closed-down (like he was away at AZ) meaning that he'd constantly have to surrender posession by hitting hopeful passes (as he did away to AZ). He's a great player given the time and space to play, but he simply cannot beat a man one-on-one (Arca can, easily) and so only has one option. In a team with such a lack of movement as ours has, I simply could not see it working. Solano has already been found-out at right-back in my eyes, it would take even less time for him to be "drowned" if he was put in a more pressurised position. Also, I think he and Arca are very different players when considered from every angle.

the same questions were raised when he was asked to play emergency right back but he aint done too bad Were they? I certainly don't remember being at all worried when he was put there. He's certainly done "bad" at right-back on quite a few occasions, yet most people seem amazed at having a full-back who can sometimes pick a pass and read a situation, so he gets away with it. Should not be first-choice next season at right-back or central-midfield.

That would be like the second-coming of Kluivert - only for far more money.

No physical presence, not much tackling ability, no pace, limited ball-carrying ability (always looks for the pass)... is there a midfielder of Nobby's size/abilities established in the centre of any Premiership team?

Edgar's contract being up this summer is worrying, to say the least. http://nufc.com/2006-07html/squad.html Perhaps he's agreed a deal to move elsewhere/has turned down a new contract and therefore Roeder is picking others ahead of him? Pure speculation, of course, but it's a theory nontheless. I don't see any other logic in why Huntington has been getting a game ahead of him after two particularly outstanding performances from the Canadian (Man Utd & West Ham). Granted, he was fairly poor away at Birmingham and was susceptible for perhaps both goals, but Huntington also had a fairly poor game at the same time - in his preferred position. Just doesn't make sense to me. From what I've seen I concur with J in that Edgar looks our best prospect. If he's not going to get a look-in down the centre, then I think he could make a cracking right-back in the future from what he's shown in glimpses so far in regards to passing/ball control/pace. The likes of Mosley could be very useful in here, as he's seen buckets of reserve games.

"It's nearly over" is the best one I've come up with so far.

Not sure they would, in all honesty. I think what people on here get most het-up about is when there are problems en masse abroad, not when there are individual fans going bonkers. Like mass racism, fighting, throwing things, etc. (There's always some daft bugger invading the Barca/Madrid games, anyway. Not throwing punches usually, of course.) It's not really comparable to one or two idiots breaking free of the stewards and getting on the pitch and isn't the same "type" of incident that I've seen fans in La Liga/Italy chastised for on here.

If that had happened in England there'd be calls to have them kicked out of Europe and, oh hang on. On this occasion, I'd be all for that.