Cronky

I shouldn't have used the word 'always', because that suggests that was his sole objective from the point of taking the job on. I meant it in the sense that once he realised that things were not going to go his way as regards changing the system and buttonholing Ashley to spend big money, he wanted out and the best way of achieving that was a bust-up with Wise and his team. He couldn't afford to quit. Keegan may well have persuaded himself that it was all some great matter of principle on the lines of 'I want what's best for the club and for the fans and I'll fight to get it'. Trouble is, that doesn't sit with being paid large amounts of money specifically to work as part of a team, to an agreed plan. A lot of people think that Keegan is a straight-as-a-die bloke who always wears his heart on his sleeve, and I think that's probably how he sees himself. The idea that he could be manipulative can really offend. But people who are always banging on about how straight and upfront they are, are often the most devious.

there's a few quotes from mort from around january which basically say that keegan is just the coach. i think he had some say in the targets but they were unrealistic so wise and the other two had to get the players in as the end of the window was getting nearer. Theres also quotes from Wise saying Keegan had the final say on transfers. Face it, the management structure Ashley put in place was/is garbage So why do you think Wise undermined him on the last day of the transfer window and not the first if this was always the case? For me, the explanation that best fits the information we have is that Keegan was jerking everyone around until someone finally lost their temper and told him to fuck off. Getting sacked with compensation was always Keegan's main objective, and he took advantage of it.

When the rumour of Wise's appointment first came out, I said on here that there was more chance of Ernie Wise becoming our DOF. That's how unlikely I thought it was. But he's done a good job, including the recruitment of everyone's hero Mr Ranger. I really disagree with the idea that Wise should be sacked just because he's unpopular with the fans. Ashley hasn't done everything right, but one thing that does do him credit is he was prepared to stand by what he thought was right even when Keegan was trying to manipulate public opinion to get rid of Wise. Whether his judgement was right or not, he stuck to his guns in the face of pressure. In the long term, that decision may well prove to be a very good one.

I think there's a cultural difference. In France, it's acceptable for a player to voice their individual grievances in public. Over here, it's considered bad for team spirit. Personally, I think that we're right and they're wrong.

If this means that we'll be able to strengthen other areas of the field - ie defence and central midfield - then it makes sense. Harper is a good enough replacement.

The chance of signing Johnson is very hard to resist. He's a very talented player, and even at his age, he would be our best midfielder when fit. I don't know exactly what the other issues are with him, but never mind. Joey can take him under his wing.

That interview looks like it is from last year. Is indeed, I'd just never saw it, and has points/debate that still remain now. Again, it's an interesting interview, but it's hard to tell how 'in the know' Shearer really was. He didn't say anything that any of us couldn't have picked up from reading the papers. The point he made about the success of Man U and Arsenal being an indication that the manager-as-supremo model works best isn't actually logical. If nearly every club in England operates that model, then the successful ones are going to work to that plan as well. You may as well point to the teams at the bottom and see that as evidence that the model doesn't work. What separates top from bottom in England is a) resources and b) the quality of the manager, not the system as such. But I think he's right in saying that, in the DOF model, the manager either has to accept being a coach, or the two have to work as a team and be appointed with that in mind. That didn't happen with us.

That was an interesting interview which I've not seen before, and I'd urge other people to watch it. You can interpret it in various ways, but I'm not impressed or convinced by the idea that, in his actions, Keegan was only thinking of the fans. Richard Bevan also makes the point that the DOF / Manager system can work extremely well, if there's goodwill and co-operation from both sides. However, he's not in a position to say whether it was Wise or Keegan at fault, because he's only heard one side of the story. He also makes the point that Curbishley and Keegan accepted their jobs under different conditions. He states that Curbishley was given absolute control over transfers, whereas the position with Keegan was 'unclear'. Again, he'd have to listen to both sides before he could say whether it really was 'unclear', or whether Keegan was simply not playing ball.

I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. No-one comes out of this smelling of roses. Ashley had a long-term plan for developing the club which was never going to be popular because most fans want quick success and don't really care about underlying financial realities. He saw Keegan as the man who could bring the fans on board. Keegan, on the other hand, only accepted the job as a way out of his own financial troubles. He had no wish to stick around for a long-term slog and started using his standing with the fans to put pressure on Ashley to change his strategy. Behind the scenes, things were hopelessly divided and Keegan walked at the first opportunity, when he could claim constructive dismissal and get his money. You can blame Ashley for setting up that situation, or you could blame Keegan for taking advantage of it. Or both. erm, how much of that do you know as fact i wonder? i tend to agree with you, in a way, but have you seen anything other than some shit article in a toon-hating rag to back up that keegan had/has financial problems? as for keegan putting pressure on ashley to change haven't you just imagined that? as i recall he towed the line til 2nd sep then fucked off into the sunset to prepare suing the club he purports to love - i certainly don't recall him making any grand gestures or statements before 2nd sep granted all of this DOES add up to looking like he had financial trouble It's not so that Keegan toed the line before Sep 2nd. There was that outburst after the Chelsea game a few months before, and then there were comments about Milner's transfer and, I think, Owen's contract as well. He had agreed that he wouldn't make public comments about transfer matters. As for Keegan's motivation, that can never be 'fact', but your last sentence sums it up.

Where is George Gillett going to get the money from? You beat me to it. If you've already got the money, why go into debt?

SJH got bored years ago around about the time the sporting club failed. SJH has said that he never wanted a leadership position in the first place, and got far more involved than he ever intended. That's why he was very happy to hand over to Freddie, who was the committed fan. However, it wasn't boredom that prompted him to sell up in the end. He could see that things were going downhill under Freddie and wanted out.

I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. No-one comes out of this smelling of roses. Ashley had a long-term plan for developing the club which was never going to be popular because most fans want quick success and don't really care about underlying financial realities. He saw Keegan as the man who could bring the fans on board. Keegan, on the other hand, only accepted the job as a way out of his own financial troubles. He had no wish to stick around for a long-term slog and started using his standing with the fans to put pressure on Ashley to change his strategy. Behind the scenes, things were hopelessly divided and Keegan walked at the first opportunity, when he could claim constructive dismissal and get his money. You can blame Ashley for setting up that situation, or you could blame Keegan for taking advantage of it. Or both.

If things were going so well, why was Sir John Hall so keen to sell the club (supposedly) 'on the cheap'? Answer - he knew that Freddie was screwing up, and he wanted out ASAP.

It just sounds like Liverpool are well and truly in the shit. £350 million in debt, no new stadium, the banks running out of patience, and other rival clubs (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City) in a stronger position financially. It's hard to imagine, in the current financial climate, of any buyer willing to take that on. It's either going to go in the Chelsea or the Leeds direction. Chelsea were lucky to find a sugardaddy when they were on the brink, but Liverpool may have missed the boat. I think there's an unspoken assumption that Liverpool are far too big a name to go down, but anything can happen.

No way. Given out - possibly, but we wouldn't use the money on James.

It was the sales of Overmars, Petit and Anelka where Arsenal made their huge profit. Those sales really set them up financially for the next few years. He bought them for a total of £10 million, and sold them for £54 million.

People have to ask themselves why the Halls were so desperate to get out. All through the final year of Freddie's reign, we were persistently being linked with possible new owners, but Freddie wouldn't budge. In the end, the Halls had to go over Freddie's head, do their own deal with Ashley and railroad him out that way. They clearly did not see NUFC as a thriving business. They recognised that Freddie was taking the club down the pan and they wanted out. Ashley was rich enough to stablise the situation, but not rich enough to splash the cash in the way that people would like. No-one's happy with the position we're in, but blaming Ashley for it is a bit like blaming a fire-fighter for the fire.

Dear Mr Ord It may have escaped your attention, but we have been a 'relegation-haunted laughing stock' for the last four years. Your organisation has also made a big contribution to the disarray that we now experience, and which excites so much mirth in rival fans. Do us all a favour and moan to your mates down the pub, not to the media.

I agree no-one int he right mind shoudl want to come to us, but I think Kinnear and Wise are just doing the jobs to the best of their ability, the problem lies both at the very top and the very bottom of the club, not in the middle. As with any organisation the responsibility is always at the very top to ensure the correct level of person is employed to carry out the management responsiblites, and to that way of thinking you are absolutlry correct. However it seems to me that Ashleys is looking to D Wise for all the footballing descions and it is he who does not have the skills or credibilty to forfill his role as DOF. Hence the main reason why we have the inept JK and the inept DW at the club is Ashley. Muppets at every managerial level hence the crisis we are in. Dennis Wise's recruits - Bassong, Guthrie, Coloccini and Jonas - seem to be doing pretty well. The weak links are those who have been recruited by previous managers for double the price. Wise's only crime seems to be that he fell out with Keegan. We have Kinnear as manager because Keegan walked out, Ashley decided that he had to sell up in order to pacify the fans, and Kinnear was the only one who would take the job on such a temporary basis. The situation is far more complex than you're making out. There are several teams in the danger zone, and while I imagine they're all worried, I just wonder whether there's quite the same level of hysteria among their respective fans. The True Faith article is just self-indulgent negativity, lashing out at various targets, with no constructive ideas. You'd have thought we were bottom of the league with 9 points the way it goes on. those recruits are also the ones Keegan either had a say in signing or was happy about. and they've not been wholesale successes either. the two it seemed he didnt want have so far failed. the previous manager didnt spend a huge amount either, actually spent similar. Roeder did spend more but only Duff is underperforming (actually is just shit) and his other signing is our best and most important player. there's other poor players from a while ago but they shouldve been replaced by now, its farcical that Butt is apparently the lynchpin of our midfield. We have Kinnear in charge because Ashley would not commit to a longer contract for Venables and because other managers would not touch us due to interference and instability from board level. We also have Kinnear in charge because Ashley responded in kind to over-reaction by placing the club on the market. Had he not done so he wouldve been able to go out and get a continental manager who was more used to his weird system than a brit, for instance Fatih Terim who threw his hat into the ring. talking of over-reactions his beats them all. All teams in the danger zone should be worried, but you'd have to say some of them seem to have more balanced sides that are in tune with their manager (and also better managers in some cases). we have better players in some cases, though some of ours are just as bad, and they dont add up to a cohesive side. we also suffer from injuries more than other sides. id expect that brom and stoke are more well placed to cope with a relegation too, in mindset if nothing else. I think this episode and the aftermath is what's distinguishing us from the other clubs at the bottom. Wise's recruitment has generally been good, and Kinnear hasn't really done any worse than Keegan, Allardyce, Roeder and Souness. We haven't spent big money in the January window for some time, and apart from one or two clubs, everyone is struggling for transfer funds at the moment. The situation following Keegan's walk-out was really ugly, and Ashley may have felt that the disunity would only get worse if he stayed on. His public declaration to sell was designed to put a halt to a potentially very damaging battle. I don't recall many people urging him to stick it out at the time, and there's no telling what situation would be in now if he'd done that - it could be better, it could be worse. I wanted him to stay on, but not at the price of further turmoil. I suppose a lot depends on how you lay the blame for that whole situation arising - Keegan, the fans, or Ashley / Wise. Personally, I don't think Ashley should have appointed Keegan, and Keegan shouldn't have accepted the job and then attempted to re-write the job description. It's hard to blame such an amorphous group as 'the fans', but there was a definite over-reaction there, based on Keegan's past Messiah-like status rather than a cool-headed analysis of what was going on.

Good player who may well develop into a great one. I'd definitely take the chance.

Basically, supporters are asking the Chairman to spend more money. I would imagine that of the 92 league clubs, the supporters of 90 of them are making exactly the same plea.

I agree no-one int he right mind shoudl want to come to us, but I think Kinnear and Wise are just doing the jobs to the best of their ability, the problem lies both at the very top and the very bottom of the club, not in the middle. As with any organisation the responsibility is always at the very top to ensure the correct level of person is employed to carry out the management responsiblites, and to that way of thinking you are absolutlry correct. However it seems to me that Ashleys is looking to D Wise for all the footballing descions and it is he who does not have the skills or credibilty to forfill his role as DOF. Hence the main reason why we have the inept JK and the inept DW at the club is Ashley. Muppets at every managerial level hence the crisis we are in. Dennis Wise's recruits - Bassong, Guthrie, Coloccini and Jonas - seem to be doing pretty well. The weak links are those who have been recruited by previous managers for double the price. Wise's only crime seems to be that he fell out with Keegan. We have Kinnear as manager because Keegan walked out, Ashley decided that he had to sell up in order to pacify the fans, and Kinnear was the only one who would take the job on such a temporary basis. The situation is far more complex than you're making out. There are several teams in the danger zone, and while I imagine they're all worried, I just wonder whether there's quite the same level of hysteria among their respective fans. The True Faith article is just self-indulgent negativity, lashing out at various targets, with no constructive ideas. You'd have thought we were bottom of the league with 9 points the way it goes on.

We've been flirting with relegation for the last four seasons. I'm concerned, but I don't feel any more worried than I have been in the past. However, the amount of hand-wringing and anger that I see on this site seems to be much greater than previously, for some reason. The situation isn't great, but we still seem to be going through this extended hangover from the Keegan walkout. I do worry that we're going to talk ourselves into a crisis.

Says it's a possibility he'll put all his eggs in one basket and bid 10m for him if Geremi gets sold. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4811370,00.html Ah, been posted. If you want to buy players in January, you have to pay an inflated price. That's a reality they have to face.

I just saw the second half and I didn't see him make a single tackle, he just mostly jogged alongside the player he was tracking. His passing looked ok FWIW. Yeah, I took in just the second half, and I'd agree with that assessment. Hopefully, that half-hearted effort is an indication of his desire to move. Incidentally, I thought the overall standard of play was remarkably crap. Is French club football usually that bad?