Shak

With Asprilla on the left.

"Pascal had just joined Spurs and was a bit short at the time, so I gave him some money, "said McKay. "He rang me up and asked if I could lend him £18,000 so I said 'no problem, just come up and get it.'

Suppose anything is possible, but I'll be mighty shocked if they were to ever form a good partnership. Owen has always been best with a striker partner who will do the bulk of the work in general play, allowing Owen to contribute sparsely in terms of active build up play and play on the shoulder of the last defender, always threatening to get in behind. He then comes into his element in the box, where he's as good as anyone. Heskey is a good example, he's always getting about doing the bulk of the work. Rooney will be the same when they eventually get a run of games together for England, as Rooney likes to drop deep and link the play. The threat of Owen in behind also gives his striker partner more room to play in. I like Martins, but his play is very erratic and I don't see him being someone we want to build the play through at all. Smith is similiar in style to Heskey, gets about and will be very involved. Viduka when fully fit I reckon will gel very well with Owen too, as a bit of space to work in will benefit him immensely.

EGG-ZACTLY!! Still, get rid of Taylor... for some reason.

It's a choice between Owen and Martins though for the most part I reckon, and it's not even a contest there tbh. This game might be an exception, I'll give you that, but long-term Owen and Martins as a partnership can't possibly work.

Smith and Owen up front I reckon. ------------------------ Given Beye/Taylor -- Cacapa -- Rozenhal -- Enrique Milner ------- Geremi ------- Butt ----- The ZOG --------------- Owen ---------- Smith If Enrique isn't fit and ready to go then we'll move N'Zogbia to LB and go with 4-5-1 I reckon.

I preferred the comparison to Matthew Upson that was made earlier in this thread. Well that's the other side of the coin isn't it? It'll most likely be somewhere in the middle I reckon.

Thought maybe you might actuallly be venturing an opinion of your own for a minute.

Do you think because I want him sold that I don't feel he has the potential to be a good defender? (I won't say great, as I don't think he will be). You're wrong if you do. Alright then.

Yes, but the idea is that Taylor could become very good in time and we've got Cacapa, Rozenhal and possibly Faye to play at CB already. IF he's acting the t*** and thinks he's the next John Terry and starts making outlandish demands then I've absolutely no problem with getting rid of him. But it's insane that so many people see him as not having the potential to be anything more than average, or "another Bramble". He's 21 and has been playing alongside truly wretched defenders his entire career here and has still managed to look a cut above pretty much all of them. We bring in Cacapa and Rozenhal who have a few good games between them against poor opposition and all of a sudden we have no need for someone like Taylor, a rough yet very promising prospect. Outrageously short-sighted. Pretty much all the faults I see in Taylor, and there are a few, can be eradicated with good coaching. He's not like Bramble, who you knew was going to just do something bizarre and unfathomable at any given moment, the type of thing that no amount of coaching can cure. Taylor just needs to be taught when to go for the ball-winning challenge and when to back off and make the man beat him or pick a pass. He's broken through at a time when the team has been going backwards, it's ridiculous to expect him to be the complete article yet. But it's certainly in him to become a very, very good CB. He's got some good, composed players to learn from in Rozenhal and Cacapa alongside him. I also have a lot more faith in Allardyce's coaching than the previous regimes. He should be paid roughly the same as what Milner and N'Zogbia are getting. If we're offering him significantly less, then we're being stupid about things. If he's demanding significantly more, get rid. How good do you think he can become, Shak? I'm not sure tbh. Much depends on how well he responds to good coaching, something that varies from player to player. His playing style is very similiar to that of Terry, so it's hard not to compare the two. While Terry was a much better player at the same age as Taylor, he still made mistakes and played with a bit of a wrecklessness. Terry did, however, have a much better setup to learn in as Chelsea were reasonably well organised and had Desailly and Lebouef there to help him as he broke in, so it's natural his development was further along. If, and it's a big if, he is a good learner and has a good attitude and a real desire to improve his game then I really do believe he can become a top-class defender. From the sounds of things, he seems to have a right big chip on his shoulder and if that's the case and he thinks he's already there then he won't get there, he'll just be a good defender who's prone to silly mistakes and poor positional play. But I do believe all of his faults can be coached out of him, and I'd much rather we were the club that tried to do it.

Yes, but the idea is that Taylor could become very good in time and we've got Cacapa, Rozenhal and possibly Faye to play at CB already. IF he's acting the twat and thinks he's the next John Terry and starts making outlandish demands then I've absolutely no problem with getting rid of him. But it's insane that so many people see him as not having the potential to be anything more than average, or "another Bramble". He's 21 and has been playing alongside truly wretched defenders his entire career here and has still managed to look a cut above pretty much all of them. We bring in Cacapa and Rozenhal who have a few good games between them against poor opposition and all of a sudden we have no need for someone like Taylor, a rough yet very promising prospect. Outrageously short-sighted. Pretty much all the faults I see in Taylor, and there are a few, can be eradicated with good coaching. He's not like Bramble, who you knew was going to just do something bizarre and unfathomable at any given moment, the type of thing that no amount of coaching can cure. Taylor just needs to be taught when to go for the ball-winning challenge and when to back off and make the man beat him or pick a pass. He's broken through at a time when the team has been going backwards, it's ridiculous to expect him to be the complete article yet. But it's certainly in him to become a very, very good CB. He's got some good, composed players to learn from in Rozenhal and Cacapa alongside him. I also have a lot more faith in Allardyce's coaching than the previous regimes. He should be paid roughly the same as what Milner and N'Zogbia are getting. If we're offering him significantly less, then we're being stupid about things. If he's demanding significantly more, get rid.

Nice potted historee lesson but f*** all to do with the topic at hand ditto Benny's gauranteed departure from Anfield after they win the Carling Cup and finish 3rd in the league and go out of the CL in QF. If he doesn't stop meddling and rotating that is where I see their season imo. I think he has another year of building before there's pressure to challenge for the title tbh. As someone said earlier, he hasn't spent a net fortune really at all, and Babel and Torres are both young and will need a year to really get going consistently I reckon. They also still need one more truly quality player IMO, someone to create from wide areas. If they get that player, whomever he may be, next summer then I reckon they may just be ready.

Darren Bent

Really does seem strange to be resting both Gerrard and Torres, their world class players going forward IMO. No way he'll be sacked next summer though I would say, they're improving every year and will go closer this year. Making steady progress, it'd make no sense to get rid.

Better than Heskey ffs! He's also better than ameobi.. whats your point? I just find it laughable that he rates someone like Heskey and lables someone like Keane as "s***". Keane may not be the most consistent footballer in the world, but he's no s***! aah ok.. tbh i don't rate either of them- keane is a good finisher though I don't agree. He seems to need about 5 chances to score 1. His finishing is very inconsistent, misses a lot of good/decent chances but generally comes up with the odd moment of pure finishing class that you look at and think he's world class in that department. Bit like his all-round game tbh, I think he's a useful player in general though. I'd like to have him on the bench, though not starting ideally.

Share commom interests you two from what I hear. Whatr a negative outlook though.

Ze Zog.

Isn't the point that you should be trying to help the club with what you're doing though? You should really be breaking your balls trying to get the club to take your ideas on board and prove to them that you're worth working with. I get the impression that you lot don't seem willing to compromise over anything and want to do things all your way, which is laughable quite frankly. i thought they wanted flags and singing, therefore atmosphere? Seems to me there doesn't need to be a lot of compromise for that. Changing the name for one thing. As I recall, at their meeting with the club they were told that the club wanted more say in how things were done with the Ultras, but they wer having none of it. Obviously it's unfair to expect them to just hand over what they've started, but clearly the club will have more power to move the organistaion in the right direction and garner support. But it seems a lot of the Ultras are just more interested in helping themselves than the club.

Isn't the point that you should be trying to help the club with what you're doing though? You should really be breaking your balls trying to get the club to take your ideas on board and prove to them that you're worth working with. I get the impression that you lot don't seem willing to compromise over anything and want to do things all your way, which is laughable quite frankly.

£5m Fuck off at that price.

Joey Barton at the Walker Cup today. Was watching Rory McIlroy hit a shot when I noticed the fella directly behind him in my line of sight looked very familiar. Think he noticed me squinting at him, I felt like a right pleb.

Torres has the advantage of very good all-round play though. Really can't see Martins and Owen working at all. You need one of your strikers to be able to drop deep and link the play. Owen could do that, I suppose, as his touch and general link up play is very good. But really you want him playing on the shoulder of the last defender all the time as he times runs so well and is such a danger to get in behind, so he'd really be wasted deep. I like Martins, but surely nobody can suggest he's equiped for that role in the least bit?

Steve Staunton should really be shot tbh. What a useless wanker. Luckily I'm beyond caring at this point.

Kevin Doyle scores a wonder goal. Never thought that would happen.