Shak

how did he do? Played the full game.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm I'm not "assuming" we'll beat anyone. There will be plenty of games coming where I will be worried, just saying this is less likely to be a pitfall for us all things considered and no I'm not particlularly worried about Derby. Other way around for me, these are the games I worry about because they're the games we really need to start winning consistently. ohmelads post was basically spot on. Good to know the vibes are good for it though. The first game we're likely to lose and you can start worrying about now is away to Man City. 29th Sept. Point being I'll not consider that a disaster, as it's a game that will be no shame in losing. Not beating Derby though is the type of thing we've done for years so that'd be much more of a concern for me. Beat the bad teams consistently and make ourselves tough to play against for the better teams. That's the first step. I think we'll beat Derby, btw.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm I'm not "assuming" we'll beat anyone. There will be plenty of games coming where I will be worried, just saying this is less likely to be a pitfall for us all things considered and no I'm not particlularly worried about Derby. Other way around for me, these are the games I worry about because they're the games we really need to start winning consistently. ohmelads post was basically spot on. Good to know the vibes are good for it though.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies?

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points.

Really can't take a win at Derby as a given by any means, nevermind expect to beat them comfortably. I'd happily take a jammy 1-0. Good start though, yeah.

What a random change to make in the thread title.

He's a hero by default really.

If Roeder was strong enough to allow for real competition you would have a point. Most people's impression was that senior players walked all over him - I can think of Owen, Shearer and Parker just to name three. Remember the embarassing sight of Glenda begging his players to do a lap of honour at the end of last season and Parker pushing Roeder away while giving him a mouthful? Roeder was a toadying lick-spittle and he got what he deserved from his team, total lack of respect and contempt. roeder played duff on merit..................thats how bad n'zog was! is the truth that hard to take ? Under Big Sam the Zog is looking like a player again. Is that truth hard to take? which is why i've said i'm very happy at his form and last season repeatedly said i wanted him to produce his previous seasons form,......the truth is bloody easy to take! i have this simple system you see, criticise a player when he plays poorly,praise the player when he plays well. introduce this system too......comprehend the fact that the way the manager interacts with players affects how they play, some more than others, n'zogbia is a young lad in a foreign country who needs confidence, roeder didnt give him any, n'zogbias form dipped, sam's given him some confidence, his form's drastically improved. simple system innit? a regular behind closed doors eh ? so i have to be the cleaner at the training ground to assume (and notice i say assume, i'm admitting there's a flaw in my argument, i dont KNOW these things, but we have to speculate, we dont know much about what goes on behind close doors) that sams influence on n'zogbia has helped him back into form?. From my life experience so far, i can tell that people perform better in their jobs, whatever their job may be, when they have confidence in their ability, especially, when that job involves them using a natural talent of theirs. i can also pretty confidently say that having perfomed well at their job for a year, said person would be most miffed to lose it to someone else, stay at the company, but not get much to do, when others that had been under-performing kept their regular roles. i also know that people that are young, people that are living in a foreign country, and people who dont start out with more natural security than others,would be more susceptible to drops in confidence. I imagine Sam Allardyce knows these things too, as do i imagine Bobby Robson does, both have been often talked about as excellent man managers, as for Roeder, its never been one of his strong points as far as i'm aware, but feel free to enlighten me. and we also know of plenty young players who have shined for 1 season the burned away. Fair enough, and it's possible (though very unlikely IMO) N'Zogbia is one of them. But he should at least get a chance to replicate his form, no? Spot should have been his to lose tbh, and bringing in Duff just took it off him very unfairly.

Cause! Can ign ones!

Taking up poker are we? Predictive text strikes!

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest. regardless of form ? even the most hard bitten of n'zogs fans will admit that last season he was our 3rd best left midfielder behind duff (who was poor) and milner who eclipsed them both. as for boumsong , i don't really recall him taking the piss but no doubt there many on here who'd think that was the least he deserved. n'zog last season got what his performances deserved and i'm very pleased he's found his previous seasons form Not saying he played well last season, obviously he didn't. Point was more that Roeder almost went out of his way to make it difficult for N'Zogbia, bringing in a big reputation player in to compete with him for his spot. Ideally the player should get his head down and get on with it, but it's simply not the case in today's game. A talent like N'Zogbia knows he'll get better chances elsewhere, it's up to the manager to keep them happy and Roeder spectaculalrly failed to do that with our best young player. read it again and see how silly it is. Bolded a bit for you to re-read myself, if we're going to be patronising about things. he's played centre mid a couple of times to no great success, who has he carried on the left, if your talking babayaro you have a point but that has nowt to do with who should play left midfield where n'zog never carried duff or milner I mean that he carried the rest of the team in terms of creating chances for us, yet Roeder decided N'Zogbia was the person who should be replaced in the team rather than any of our s*** defenders or ineffective midfielders. That seem fair or in the least bit intelligent to you? probably not but it really comes down to the player facing competition for a spot in the team and not doing it...would you say the same if owens head went down and he played s*** cos we'd signed martins? no you'd criticise him if he played s*** which is right as i have done last season with n'zogbia Not really the same thing at all as Owen is a proven top player whereas N'Zogbia is still a young prospect (one who needs games to develop might I add). But yeah, if Owen had been on fire for a season and was probably our best player and we went out and bought someone else to take his place while ignoring other crucial needs in the team I'd not exactly blame him for being a bit pissy tbh. Do you genuinely think Roeder was ever going to choose between Zoggy and Duff based on merit last season?

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest. regardless of form ? even the most hard bitten of n'zogs fans will admit that last season he was our 3rd best left midfielder behind duff (who was poor) and milner who eclipsed them both. as for boumsong , i don't really recall him taking the piss but no doubt there many on here who'd think that was the least he deserved. n'zog last season got what his performances deserved and i'm very pleased he's found his previous seasons form Not saying he played well last season, obviously he didn't. Point was more that Roeder almost went out of his way to make it difficult for N'Zogbia, bringing in a big reputation player in to compete with him for his spot. Ideally the player should get his head down and get on with it, but it's simply not the case in today's game. A talent like N'Zogbia knows he'll get better chances elsewhere, it's up to the manager to keep them happy and Roeder spectaculalrly failed to do that with our best young player. read it again and see how silly it is. Bolded a bit for you to re-read myself, if we're going to be patronising about things. he's played centre mid a couple of times to no great success, who has he carried on the left, if your talking babayaro you have a point but that has nowt to do with who should play left midfield where n'zog never carried duff or milner I mean that he carried the rest of the team in terms of creating chances for us, yet Roeder decided N'Zogbia was the person who should be replaced in the team rather than any of our s*** defenders or ineffective midfielders. That seem fair or in the least bit intelligent to you?

when did that happen ? The 2005-2006 season.

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest. regardless of form ? even the most hard bitten of n'zogs fans will admit that last season he was our 3rd best left midfielder behind duff (who was poor) and milner who eclipsed them both. as for boumsong , i don't really recall him taking the piss but no doubt there many on here who'd think that was the least he deserved. n'zog last season got what his performances deserved and i'm very pleased he's found his previous seasons form Not saying he played well last season, obviously he didn't. Point was more that Roeder almost went out of his way to make it difficult for N'Zogbia, bringing in a big reputation player in to compete with him for his spot. Ideally the player should get his head down and get on with it, but it's simply not the case in today's game. A talent like N'Zogbia knows he'll get better chances elsewhere, it's up to the manager to keep them happy and Roeder spectaculalrly failed to do that with our best young player. read it again and see how silly it is. Bolded a bit for you to re-read myself, if we're going to be patronising about things.

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest. regardless of form ? even the most hard bitten of n'zogs fans will admit that last season he was our 3rd best left midfielder behind duff (who was poor) and milner who eclipsed them both. as for boumsong , i don't really recall him taking the piss but no doubt there many on here who'd think that was the least he deserved. n'zog last season got what his performances deserved and i'm very pleased he's found his previous seasons form Not saying he played well last season, obviously he didn't. Point was more that Roeder almost went out of his way to make it difficult for N'Zogbia, bringing in a big reputation player in to compete with him for his spot. Ideally the player should get his head down and get on with it, but it's simply not the case in today's game. A talent like N'Zogbia knows he'll get better chances elsewhere, it's up to the manager to keep them happy and Roeder spectaculalrly failed to do that with our best young player.

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest.

Just in the door, actually shouted "YES!!" really loudly when I saw the thread title. Dodged a massive bullet, to think we almost lost him for a pittance. Our best prospect wrapped up for the long term, fucking delighted.

Not surprised to hear all this really. Like I said he is a lot like Gilberto, a very disciplined holding midfielder who stays on his feet and wins the ball by being in the right position at the right time. Not as noticeable as the occassional crunching tackle by Butt, but far more effective. Geremi plays the position the right way if you ask me. Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira, Gattuso? None of them play/played the position the right way do they? Are these guys holding midfielders like Gilberto and Makelele though? I'm not so sure. Keane and Viera were more box to box players who broke up play all over the pitch, than holding midfielders who protected the back four. Wasn't Viera partnered with Gilberto afterall? To be fair, those three players I listed are as good as it gets as DM's and are a little more all-action than someone like Gilberto. But I'd consider them DM's definitely as they do their best work when the opposition has the ball. It's beside the point anyway, as Geremi is nowhere near as good defensively from what I've seen of him as Makelele or Gilberto. Just because he doesn't throw himself into tackles doesn't somehow make him a cleverer player than Butt or anything, and Bolton's goal in our first game of the season is a good indication that his defensive mind isn't all that great, needlessly commiting himself to a ball that wasn't really there to be won.

Butt and Barton in the middle for me if we're going for a straight up 4-4-2 with genuine width. Geremi is fine in a 3-man midfield, but excels neither going forward or protecting the back 4 so he's not suited to 4-4-2 I don't think.

Not surprised to hear all this really. Like I said he is a lot like Gilberto, a very disciplined holding midfielder who stays on his feet and wins the ball by being in the right position at the right time. Not as noticeable as the occassional crunching tackle by Butt, but far more effective. Geremi plays the position the right way if you ask me. Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira, Gattuso? None of them play/played the position the right way do they?

“I recognised Ronaldo straight away from watching the World Cup last year,” Baltrusch said. “He’s my idol. I’ve always fancied him.” Her idol?

I'm actually sickened we didn't sign Leighton Baines, came up with this today at work. *To the tune of Ace of Spades, obviously* If you need a left-back, you know that he's your man. He'll bomb forward, track back, It's all the same to him. From the rugby club he came, the only one we need, Leighton Baines, Leighton Baines!!

Didn't see the match on Saturday myself but I thought in the previous games he really didn't try anything adventurous and most of his passes were safe, efficient ones. That's fin if you're a holding midfielder, but we can't be playing with two of them and I think Butt does the job better.