tmonkey

Btw, for those with a Sky HD box, this is how to get ITV HD working (think theres a thread for that somewhere on here?): http://www.tellytoad.com/page/itv-hd-on-sky-hd.aspx

This is ridiculous. Barcelona should be at least 2 goals ahead.

Ibrahimovic

3-0 Barcelona.

And Jonas in front of him in central defence. Maradona's smack supplier must be managing this team.

Free ride for ManU to the final.

Spot on. Forget him. Truth is he wasn't that great a keeper in the first place. Even in his peak form for us there were plenty on here questioning his weaknesses and whether overall he was as good as his reputation suggested. I'll always remember him as being a decent goalkeeper for us who looked a good shot stopper on certain days, but was far from the complete package.

Yes. He would also have played in the 2006 CL final (at 18 years!) if he hadn't been injuried. I think that proves he can do it in big games, also scored a header which is amazing in itself, but he did it in the Champions League final v Man utd... It does, but only to a limited extent. Some points I'd like to make: 1) Madrid haven't had a genuinely good team since 2003. Nor have they been a stable club since Del Bosque's sacking donkey years ago. They're not the top team in a big stage in a high stake competition being referred to here. 2) This was merely a domestic league fixture, even if one of the highest profile in that category. It's one that happens at least twice a year, every year, as part of a long season. I don't think it's as big a stage or as significant as a CL final/semi-final, and certainly not a World Cup, no matter what the fans would like to think or what the players may say. The stakes just aren't very high in terms of the bigger picture, it's 3 points at the end of the day plus a bit of pride, unless it's the final game of the season and a title deciding one (which it never is, and what it would need to be to be remotely comparable to the other competitions mentioned). 3) He scored a header, yes, but how does that count as him playing his best in these biggests of games? As stated before, in the 3 games against ManU, Chelsea home and Chelsea away last year, he was marked and shut out, and struggled to do what he did all season long against lesser teams, i.e. beat players with ease and score goals/provide assists. I'm not expecting him to run riot against teams of this calibre, but would he manage to shine if his team were struggling? Would he be able to carry his team at this level? As a further example, take the World Cup 2006 semi-final between France and Brazil. The wonderful Ronaldinho failed to shine when it mattered, when it was expected of him almost - this was widely regarded to be a career defining game for Ronaldinho, it was meant to be "his" World Cup so to speak if he was to establish himself as one of the best players ever. Instead, an old, aging Zidane, a few hours away from retirement and some years beyond his best, did what was expected of his opposite number, and completely outshone 'the pretender' and grabbed the limelight. One could argue as per point 1) above that Brazil were s*** that tournament, but I'm not really using this game to say Zidane was great or that the performance proved he was a big game player - I'm merely pointing out the contrast between a great player who failed to "do it" when his team needed him, and a great player who managed to do it successfully for a number of years. The line is fine as you could point to various instances of fantastic games by Ronaldinho and say "but he was great here, or fantastic there", but the brilliance failed to materialise when it mattered the most for his team, and that's where the line is for me. Messi needs to stand up and be counted when he inevitably (and hopefully) ends up in games of this magnitude against the best out there, whem his team needs inspiration from him. So far he hasn't done it, despite being the best player in the world.

Messi is in the form of his life at the moment, but he still has a lot to do to be considered an all time great, even if he's spectacular right now. Last year for example he had a great season overall but was completely shut out by Chelsea and ManU in the big CL games, whereby he was a marked man and reduced to a few good touches mixed in with the odd dribble attempt (plus of course a headed goal). Iniesta on the other hand was the one to truly stand up on the big stage and display his talent. To compete with the likes of Maradona, he needs to do it on the big stage against the top players, which is what the all-time greats did in their respective eras. Running riot against Valencia and Stuttgart isn't the same as carrying an average team to World Cup glory for example. Zidane (imo) is the only modern day player who can be said to have met these performance requirements (with the "real" Ronaldo also doing it for a few years prior to injury), in many of the big games for both club and country he stood out and played his natural creative game irrespective of who he was up against, with the opposition being unable to prevent him doing so. If Messi can continue the current performance levels right up until after the World Cup ends, then yeah, he'll be one of the best players ever. If he gets shut out on the big stage and becomes quiet like he has been in the past, then he'll merely be (arguably) the best player in the world at the moment, much like Ronaldinho was a few years earlier, Rivaldo before him, so on and so forth.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/125673-jonas-guittierez/ Thou shalt not covet another team's player!

Enrique

Best.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01294/Chris-Hughton_1294820c.jpg

Movement and control has been awful up front. Hard to see where the goals are going to come from without Lovenkrands on the pitch, especially with the BC centrebacks doing pretty well in the air and therefore nullifying Carroll.

He's been watching compilations of Romario's goals on youtube.

Coloccini. Enrique has been better, but missed quite a bit of the season through injury. Coloccini deserves credit for maintaining his form over such a long period, I can't even remember now whether he was shaky or not at the start of the campaign because his form over the past 6+ months has been exceptional. Jonas third, Harper fourth, Guthrie fifth, and the rest have been alright.

Quality player over the course of a domestic season due to fitness/mobility/versatility/etc, but he's not true top calibre material in terms of ability. In fact, Chelsea's main attacking players simply aren't good enough when it matters in the CL. Lampard had a stinker on a big night yet again (no doubt this will be overlooked when he's scoring tap ins against Zimbabwe/Ajerbaijan and a hat-trick against Burnley), and similarly, has Drogba actually done anything for Chelsea in Europe? Rarely seems to be a goal threat for them in these sorts of games. Also, Lucio showed yet again that he's still one of the best defenders in the world.

Great manager, but dislike the type of manager that he is. He coached the flair out of players like Duff and Joe Cole as part of getting a very expensively assembled squad to grind out results with defensive/spoiling tactics instead of playing good football.

Absolutely must be sold in the summer if we do achieve promotion. But you just know he won't be. Shame, as with him and Butt gone (the two chief footballing culprits in our relegation imo), it would have been a great chance to bring in new blood capable of running around like competent athletes and passing the ball like competent footballers.

Cubico Ltd. Or something.

I think Keegan would take the Madrid job if it were offered to him.

He has a point to be fair. Too many people on here have been carried away in recent weeks after the good results, talking about CL ambitions next season. We won't be in the CL till 2011/12 you silly billies, we have to qualify first!! Let's not count our chickens before the hens have given birth to them!!! Also, we're only a top striker and two, maybe three central midfielders away from being a title challenging team. Let's go sign them before we open our mouths!!! Finally, a

If we do go up, and Forest are the ones who miss out, I'd much rather we went for Chris Gunter, who has looked pretty good going forward for them.

Scholes. Quality playmaker. Comes first for me. Beckham pre-ego-t*** phase was great. Awesome winger. I'd put him second. His direct, aggressive crossing was the best in Europe by far, topped off by being a quality set piece taker. As soon as he started drifting around the pitch though, trying to be some sort of playmaking Zidane slash Cruyff equivalent from deep, constantly spraying 60 yard wonder balls onto the heads of opposition defenders, he immediately turned into a liability for the top teams imo, which is why Fergie dropped him for Solskjaer before selling, and also partly why Madrid turned from the title winning Galaticos into a disjointed team who failed to win anything for years till Beckham's last season there (and even then they only won because of Capello's defensive tactics and Barca going through a phase of rebuilding). Gerrard has probably had the biggest impact out of all four in any one big game, i.e. the CL final against Milan, but overall he's third in the list for me because he's been crap for England, and furthermore his touch/passing sometimes lets him down in the big games. That 15 minute spell against Milan in the final was class, but he'd be the third midfielder to play like that against that Milan side - Ji Sung Park for PSV did exactly the same, tore them apart in a CL semi-final by running directly through the middle, and our own Albert Luque, back when Deportivo turned over a 4-1 loss in the first leg by tearing Milan a new one in the second leg and winning 4-0. Beyond that, Gerrard has been great for a Liverpool team that he's often had to carry on his own, and it's easy to forget that he did this for many years prior to Torres' arrival, and he's also had a few big CL performances where he's grabbed a win or a draw for Liverpool from nothing. So I'd put him third, just ahead of Lampard. Not as big a fan of Lampard as some on here. He's obviously a great midfielder overall, and his passing is better than Gerrard's, but still think he goes missing against the top teams/players, and I still can't get over him being a bit of a plodder at times. Just seems to have poor fluidity or technique when taking on awkward shots, e.g. that miss against Egypt a few days ago. He's like an extremely good Kevin Nolan almost - whilst the likes of Essien and co are bombing around the pitch, you have "Fat Lamps" plodding along, hoping to get into the penalty box unnoticed. His passing can be good, in particular the crossfield ball, but it's not creative often enough like e.g. Fabregas' is. I'd also add that Lampard has been just as disappointing for England as Gerrard has when it's come to the games against the top opponents (including some friendlies), but furthermore he hasn't had the one or two standout performances in the truly big games that Gerrard has had at club level, which is why he's last for me. I'd also say that he's had a far easier time of it at Chelsea, where he often just has to jog into the box and tuck away a moderately easy chance because he's had the likes of Makelele, Terry, Essien, Carvalho, etc etc, behind him, so he's had more freedom to just concentrate on doing the easier things than Gerrard, who has often had to be the sole driving force for Liverpool.

In Beye's defence, he was in the final year of his contract, and we have no clue if another one was offered to him or not. If there was one offered to him, then I'd fully agree with you. But if not, then I'd sympathise with the player, because it's a big gamble for him. Further to this, noone could have predicted how easy or mediocre this league would turn out to be, so at the time everything looked to be doom and gloom for us. The icing on the cake of all this being that we had/have a bunch of retards running the club. All of this culminated in a pretty poor environment for a 31 year old in the last year of his contract to be plying his trade in. Regarding his comments about staying and then wanting to leave, I may be wrong, but there's a clear line drawn between when the contrasting statements were made. At the beginning of the last summer, Shearer was meant to be taking over, and one of his first reported acts was to give Beye a new contract and (supposedly) the captaincy. That was when Beye stated he'd like to stay. As soon as the Shearer appointment fell through and it was clear that the Board were sitting on their arses doing nothing, Beye changed his tune and wanted out, putting in a transfer request. I see no problem in this - a player has every right to look after himself if his contract is on the verge of ending and there's no gaurantees of a renewal, and at least he had the decency to put that request in which means he wasn't entitled to a loyalty payment from us. If Beye had a crystal ball, he'd probably have stayed, but from his point of view he was a good Premiership standard defender who had received a 3 year contract offer from a Premiership club with CL qualification ambitions. In what world was he going to turn that offer down?