tmonkey

If we're going to stick with the 4-3-3, sell because he's too one-dimensional as a player to be useful in any role, and purchase a replacement with more technical or pass 'n' move ability. If we're going to switch back to 4-4-2, keep him because he's a half decent winger with the ability to put in a killer cross once in a while, on top of which on his day he can be a handful for decent fullbacks. And he's still young. If it means we could move for someone like Arteta or Elano or someone of that ilk, we should snap the hands off anyone willing to part with £6m+. We pretty much have a replacement in Gutierrez as it is.

Boring first half. Also, I hate watching Nani play. Snide, snarling, whinging little cunt.

Oh dear Defoe.

Nice to see Gary Neville playing again.

I remember some saying we should be raiding them for players earlier in the summer. That was before the Euros. Reading up on them on wikipedia. Its amusing how easy it is to be ignorant about a club's size and stature - I always assumed they were a tiny provincial club who have only achieved a degree of success in recent years. Apart from the lure of money, we're clearly deluded if we think we're able to sign good players from a club like that.

Shows how strong La Liga must be if that Valencia side finished 10th last season. Either that or they had massive injury problems. Good side with some cracking players.

This is why I'd take him, but only if we have no better options for the 4th striker. I'm sure there must be a youth striker who is a bit better that could do a good job from the bench for us. Smith/Ameobi must be sold before the transfer window closes. Anyone human that isn't physically retarded is better than Smith and Ameobi, we sell Smith, we then go out and buy a player who's capable of challenging the strikers we already have, if not we may aswell keep the useless b******. Smith - at rock bottom in terms of form/performances/ability, zero contribution to the team and in fact looking like being a negative influence as its like playing with 10 men effectively, would command 2-3 mill, 4 year contract on huge wages left to go. Its highly likely that another season like last and he'd be neither playable nor sellable. Healy - half decent forward who will chip in with the odd goal, isnt a complete muppet when it comes to the basics in the game, on the face of it would command a low fee (£1m?) and low wages, could probably be moved on very easily once he's served his purpose, and although we dont know for certain, you'd think he wouldnt be bashing the manager's door down if hes not in the starting lineup every other week. And although this is a tad premature, Healy's international record/performances mean he'd be a handy backup player to have if we were facing small but relatively organised European teams in e.g. the UEFA or Intertoto Cup the season after next. Its a small but certain step forward for me. It'd be nice to sign a young up-n-coming player, but look at our past when we've had injuries and we've thrown promising youngsters in due to an injury crisis on top of having a thin squad. The end result has frequently been them dissappointing or simply looking plain s***. Luis Saha, Guiseppe Rossi and JD Tomasson spring to mind - its not about not having faith in youngsters, but just recognising the circumstances in which it might be better to go for an accomplished, more experienced head who isnt complete dogshit. I'm more interested in his league form than his international form, after all we don't play internationals. I would be worried at the fact Fulham would be letting him go for 1m mark which would suggest he probably isn't that good enough back up for them, is he really decent? I underestimated how s*** Smith really was till I saw him play consistently. Fair point. We wont really know until he's signed and played games for us - with cheap backup players thats the only way. But the saving grace is that we'd not be lumbered with an expensively purchased mediocre player on a long term, lucrative contract, so if he is shit then its not a massive loss (im assuming we're only interested because we dont have a promising youngster to snap up anywhere, and we arent in the position to sign a first team forward with Owen/Martins/Viduka all on big wages). As for his international form, granted it doesnt count for much at all with respect to the Premiership, but it does show that he's competent and does have a goal threat without having the touch of a rapist or looking like a clueless donkey. His performances for Fulham weren't that bad either. In short, he's a competent bottom-of-the-league type striker who isnt going to bag 15 goals in the Premiership, but doesnt look like a shit-by-Championship-standards player 99% of the time either. That's why I'm for it. Even if he's as bad as Smith, we've still made a good financial gain from the swap.

This is why I'd take him, but only if we have no better options for the 4th striker. I'm sure there must be a youth striker who is a bit better that could do a good job from the bench for us. Smith/Ameobi must be sold before the transfer window closes. Anyone human that isn't physically retarded is better than Smith and Ameobi, we sell Smith, we then go out and buy a player who's capable of challenging the strikers we already have, if not we may aswell keep the useless b******. Smith - at rock bottom in terms of form/performances/ability, zero contribution to the team and in fact looking like being a negative influence as its like playing with 10 men effectively, would command 2-3 mill, 4 year contract on huge wages left to go. Its highly likely that another season like last and he'd be neither playable nor sellable. Healy - half decent forward who will chip in with the odd goal, isnt a complete muppet when it comes to the basics in the game, on the face of it would command a low fee (£1m?) and low wages, could probably be moved on very easily once he's served his purpose, and although we dont know for certain, you'd think he wouldnt be bashing the manager's door down if hes not in the starting lineup every other week. And although this is a tad premature, Healy's international record/performances mean he'd be a handy backup player to have if we were facing small but relatively organised European teams in e.g. the UEFA or Intertoto Cup the season after next (which should be our aim and is far from unachievable). Its a small but certain step forward for me. It'd be nice to sign a young up-n-coming player, but look at our past when we've had injuries and we've thrown promising youngsters in due to an injury crisis on top of having a thin squad. The end result has frequently been them dissappointing or simply looking plain s***. Luis Saha, Guiseppe Rossi and JD Tomasson spring to mind - its not about not having faith in youngsters, but just recognising the circumstances in which it might be better to go for an accomplished, more experienced head who isnt complete dogshit.

Better than Smith/Ameobi, without a shadow of a doubt.

Good footballer in the making.

If this is true, maybe for the sake of the move it'd be wise if Keegan just dropped him against PSV/Valencia, before Moyes manages to get a good look at Smith's current state. Moyes might think Smith still has it in him to be a good forward and that hes' just been unlucky/lacking in confidence/used poorly, but that opinion could change pretty quickly if he sees Smith slide tackling a loose ball out of play and struggling to even resemble a footballer let alone a striker. And if by some miracle this move does happen, it'd be nice to twist the knife that we've just stuck in by going out and signing Manuel Fernandes.

Why don't we? Because Smith is better than we can actually get? I'm as pissed off as everyone that (it looks like) we're not signing a replacement for Smith, but I also accept that if we don't sign a striker, we can't afford to let Smith go. The squad is as thin as we've ever had it in the Premiership, we simply cannot let more players go without replacements coming in. WarrenBartonCentrePartin, read my original post and take note of the words "until we replace him". It's a clue. With all due respect, I think it'd be very difficult to not get someone better than Smith.

To be fair to Evertonians, thats exactly the same kind of thinking plenty of our lot on here had when we were linked with the likes of Duff and Smith, players who had turned into dogshit long before we purchased them yet were apparantly still good/top class players.

Never liked him as a footballer beyond that first season where he looked like a promising forward if he were to improve his game. And was definately shit before that injury - I know plenty of us were suprised at ManU being interested in him, even more so with the amount they paid when they sealed a deal. Started off brightly for Leeds in what was a good side, but that quickly went when defenders pretty much figured out that the guy was a striker with no pace, strength, skill or movement, just an average all rounder with a high work rate. Granted, he's worse now because of the injury/positional change/lack of confidence/losing whatever touch he did have, but he was a very average player before all of that. As for fans appreciating him, he was a half decent domestic player (bias will always exist in every country) who had a purple patch earlier on in his career, had a very high work rate, and was a player who frequently put in crunching tackles all day long (i.e. got "stuck in"), something which is cheered by matchday fans more than a piece of individual brilliance at times. Was always going to be rated highly purely because of that. As an example, until recently imo there were 100 Smith admirers for every Gareth Barry admirer, even though Barry was always a considerably better footballer in comparison to Smith.

He is a living, walking, talking dream. A centreback's dream. They must love having to mark someone who poses no goal threat whatsoever and essentially spends the entire game trying to outmuscle you, despite being weaker than you.

First time ive noticed how big Geremi's backside is. Looks like he's leaning forward all the time because of it.

Guthrie "FUCKIN ELL" at Milner's "pass".

PSV and Valencia next.

avg championship team.. Would be Championship relegation candidates imo.

Empty stadium. I know its only a friendly, but its still dissappointing as it almost always leads to a typically extremely boring game.

Because he was in the driving seat - the Halls had sold their shares to a billionaire who's intention to purchase the club entire was pretty clear from the start. To do that, he had to purchase Shepherd's shares. Hence, Shepherd got every last drop whilst he could. Alternatively, what explanation is there for John Hall to be so desperate to sell his shares that he offered them to a random foreign hedge fund group based in Jersey and then an unknown English bloke who had made a billion from a sports shop. Is it not because he realised that the debt had become unsustainable and with the s*** squad, s*** manager, and overall bad reputation of the club there was no chance of getting out of that huge debt anytime soon, and indeed things possibly getting alot worse, what with huge investment in many of our mid table competitors? Also, why was Shepherd seeking to form a consortium in order to buy the club? Maybe he wanted to get rid of the Halls, but more likely he needed cash to repay some of that that debt and therefore wanted to "sell" the club to other investors in order to avoid losing out on his cushy, highly paid job? IMO Mort's story fits well with that scenario of the Halls/Shepherds knowing the club was f***ed financially unless there was big investment. And theres no real reason for Mort and Ashley to lie, or to believe that they were lying.

We need to sign another Brazilian 'g' otherwise they'll be ganging up on Cacapa. We protect our homies 'round here fo sho.

Nice clearance by Smith. In the opposition penalty area.

Owen was 25, Emre was 24 & only £3.8m, and Duff was 27 and only £5m. Don't let that get in the way of your argument though. They have all had their best years behind them though and considering what they've done here they have been "relatively expensive". What he said. In all three cases, these players had been at a considerably higher level at least two yeras prior to us signing them. In all three cases, the players had a long list of prior injury problems/recurrances, with one of them being badly off the boil for at least 1.5 years prior to joining us. In Duff and Emre's case, we offered higher wages than the competiiton just to land them or attract them in the first place. According to reports, they would have signed for Spurs and Everton respectively had we not jumped in (can add Parker to that list too, again if reports are to be believed). In Owen's case, we reportedly offered double the transfer fee and considerably higher wages just to freeze Liverpool out of the equation and force Owen's hand. I dont think theres anything particularly wrong with either scenario on their own - signing a player who has gone off the boil for some time or had injury problems, or overpaying in wages to beat off competition/attract someone. Its when we combine both that the alarm bells should be ringing and we should be open to the possibility of shooting ourselves in the foot if we do sign that type of player using those means. Which one had been off the boil for 1.5yrs prior to joining us?? Also, think it's pretty harsh to judge on hindsight - saying their best years were behind them is all well and good now, but when we signed them i'd say most were pretty confident we could still see some pretty amazing players. Duff. As for their best years behind them, yes thats a view made in hindsight, but thats not really my point - im more referring to the fact that by the time we signed them they had shown themselves to be nowhere near the player they a few seasons before. As an example, SWP is 26 and has been "off the boil" compared to his City form for nearly 3 years now. If we were to offer Chelsea 20mill for him, or conversely £5m but 100k per week in wages, would you be happy? And if not, and three years later it turned out he was an average signing at best, would it be fair for someone else to state that your displeasure at the signing overall is purely in hindsight? There are some players who show a very clear dip in form, and that that dip is permanent. Its usually down to injuries or not playing for a long time, and therefore its fair to say that theyve peaked earlier, even if theyre still in their mid 20's. Obviously its also fair to have a belief or faith that this player's dip in form is not permanent and they can get back to a previous level with a run of games/increased confidence/etc, but the point being made is that we should be wary when it comes to signing someone like this and paying over the odds in either fee or wages in order to get them. Hence why this transfer policy of not overpaying for players with a considerably bigger reputation than performances in recent years seems sound, if it does exist. Maybe it doesnt as Dave is suggesting.

Owen was 25, Emre was 24 & only £3.8m, and Duff was 27 and only £5m. Don't let that get in the way of your argument though. They have all had their best years behind them though and considering what they've done here they have been "relatively expensive". What he said. In all three cases, these players had been at a considerably higher level at least two yeras prior to us signing them. In all three cases, the players had a long list of prior injury problems/recurrances, with one of them being badly off the boil for at least 1.5 years prior to joining us. In Duff and Emre's case, we offered higher wages than the competiiton just to land them or attract them in the first place. According to reports, they would have signed for Spurs and Everton respectively had we not jumped in (can add Parker to that list too, again if reports are to be believed). In Owen's case, we reportedly offered double the transfer fee and considerably higher wages just to freeze Liverpool out of the equation and force Owen's hand. I dont think theres anything particularly wrong with either scenario on their own - signing a player who has gone off the boil for some time or had injury problems, or overpaying in wages to beat off competition/attract someone. Its when we combine both that the alarm bells should be ringing and we should be open to the possibility of shooting ourselves in the foot if we do sign that type of player using those means.