tmonkey

1) So what if it's unnatural though? We've evolved and developed from simplistic creatures who act on their primal instincts (cavemen?) to being capable of thought, reasoning and doing something which goes against our genes. I think quite a few things that humans do nowadays can be described as unnatural because they're going against what our genes says we should (altruism maybe?). No point in saying homosexuality is 'wrong' because it's unnatural because then so many things that we do today can be classified as 'wrong' as well. 2) Also, I think there's been studies on homosexuality and it seems that the hypothalamuses (part of the brain) of homosexuals are larger than heterosexuals, so it's not a 'choice' whether they're gay or not. 1) My post was just furthering kingdawson's arguement that there is a difference between homophobia and racism. Its a pretty mute point since ultimately its still discrimination based on someone being different, but when homosexuals are using the "would you say that to a black person" arguement, if can seem wrong if you look at it from the viewpoint that homosexuality is unnatural and the result of a biological anomaly (even if somewhat common), and by comparing it to racism, theyre basically implying that its unnatural to be black. For example, would someone like Emily Mauresmo retort to homophobia by pointing at a pair of conjoined twins and saying "you wouldnt make fun of them, so dont make fun of me"? There seems to be this element of denial in the gay community that "genetic" homosexuality is unnatural and the result of something biologically "going wrong", and thats all that my post was intending to point out. From a different perspective, if you were a coloured person, how would you feel if everytime gays, dwarves, conjoined twins, people in wheelchairs, etc, are discriminated against, they point at you and say "erm, you wouldnt say the same to them either, would you"? I appreciate they are are merely pointing out prejudices and discrimination, but a coloured person would surely also be thinking "why are these freaks lumping me in with them everytime they get insulted?". However small and mute the difference, since again the end result of discrimination and hatred is completely unaccpetable, it does exist for me. 2) Whether that study is true or not, and to be fair there have been a whole load of agenda backed studies from different sides that prove different things, I think its fair to say that homosexuality for some people IS a choice, but not for others (eg those who are born with the "wrong" genes for their body). Otherwise, how would you explain bisexuality, or those who "become" homosexual eg due to extremely bad experiences in the past? And what about inmates at a hardcore prison? Arent they the perfect people to testify that homosexuality may be a "choice" for some in that its dependant on the persons' environment which shapes their mentality and eventually sexual preferrence? Maybe its not a direct "choice", but I dont think the "youre either gay or youre not" statement is true at all for many homosexuals. Ones who are born that way, yes, ones who arent, its impossible to tell and I doubt even they would know since theyd be the product of that "choice".

By that reasoning it's unnatural to have sex without the intention of producing a baby, i.e. sex purely for pleasure, but I bet the majority of people in this country slip on a johnny before getting down to business without thinking twice about it. They certainly wouldn't think it's unnatural. are you comparing having sex to being racist? No, he's countering the argument that homosexuality is wrong because it's 'unnatural'. Nowhere did I say the homsexuality is morally wrong because its "unnatural".

I have nothing against homosexual people...and theres a but coming...but... ...surely its without a doubt unnatural, and there is something "wrong" with it from a biological viewpoint? We werent designed to be homosexual, it serves no purpose as we cant reproduce if we have that sort of sexual preference, and hence evolution should have wiped homsexuality out if it were natural. But it hasnt, mainly because homosexuality is like a mutation - something goes "wrong" at some stage during the physical or emotional development of a person, hence the eventual same-sex preference, beastality, necrophilia, etc. Its why the sexual organs in a man and a woman are designed for the opposite sex, not the same. Thats why men have to take it up the arse and women...I mean really, I don't even understand how two woman can make love. I mean unless they kinda just scissor... ...Oh this is hot scissoring, Scissor me timbers!

Ive always harboured a hatred for Ashley Cole. Its because of the way he plays the game - hes admittedly good defensively when hes not getting shown up by flair players, and had a great game a few years ago against CRonaldo, but its going forward where he bugs me - theres this perception that hes some sort of attacking fullback, good at going forward, when in reality he does little except for feigning injury and going down at every possible opportunity. He actually plays for a foul whenever hes in a decent attacking position - knock ball forward, put body in between man and ball, fall over as though shot by a sniper with added facial expression of being in labour. The rest of the time when hes not scowling like a baby whilst falling over, hes scared to go forwards. Hes like a player who is out of his depth at the top levels, but just scrapes through every situation (normally by diving) and consistently drags himself out of trouble. Annoying.

Cash in on him. His situation is just taking the piss now.

Rooney should be played on the right side of midfield in place of SWP - hes happy to play there for ManU when hes needed to (on the right of a 4-3-3 anyway), and hes obviously got the ability to play there, so why not for England? Could be a pretty strong combination, J.Cole on the left flank drifting infield, Rooney on the right drifting infield, both with the skill or drive to go down the flank if need bE, both posing serious goalscoring threat through the middle.

Anelka is really the only player that fits this category though. Ive wanted us to sign him for a long time mainly because hes capable of both playing alongside Owen as well as deputising for him - one of the few top class players in the Premiership who could do that, and probably the only one we could attract. Theres Tevez, who minus the aerial ability would fit this role perfectly since his game is all about holding the ball up and bring others in to play, alongside having the ability to switch to the flank and also score goals. But then hes not exactly a realistic target. After that though, its hard to think of a player - apart from maybe Huntelaar, who despite being a predator type forward, does also have a good all-round game with some ability on the ball, and certainly enough presence/strength to cause problems. Huntelaar and Owen up front. Would be pretty immense, albeit pretty unrealistic.

Eh? Who? heskey,or even kevin davies, the style of players you're talking about. I specifically mentioned that I wouldn't want us to sign Heskey. He's too one-dimensional for me. Heskey and Owen have a good record together though, which was my point. We have nobody like Heskey - ie someone to suit Owen - should we be looking for one? No. I think Owen is being a tad underrated here, as hes perfectly capable of playing well in a different type of team. When he played for Real Madrid, he was scoring frequently and a constant threat. Hence, Owen can play just as well without a big lump winning challenges for him, providing the team is creative enough to open up spaces and provide him with chances. As Madras pointed out, hes looking decent alongside Heskey purely because these defences arent handling Heskey well at all, whereas Premiership defences are tailored for that sort of forward play. I think we should go down the other route and bring in creative players who have the ability to pick out the runs that Owen regularly makes. I also think its a bit unwise to be taking much away from these two games, since the opposition have been particularly poor, especially in defence - certainly wouldnt want us to replicate the tactics and playing style being used.

Losing Taylor would be a big blow. Im sure alot on here can see that element of a top class centreback in his game, that presence at the back where he looks like hes capable of being a brick wall for us, a big, strong, aerial force that the ball somehow keeps getting attracted to. Similar to Martins - maybe hes not improving like we want him to with us, but watching him go elsewhere just gives that nagging feeling that wed wed be kicking ourselves in a few years time when the buying club gradually unlocks his potential and we end up watching a real top class player performing for someone else due to our own impatience and inability to develop talent.

Cole knocked it on to him, 6 yards out at a slight angle with all the time in the world to slot it past the keeper, panics and hits in into the keeper's face, ball rebounds to him with the keeper on the floor I think and him being in exact same position still with enough time to slot it home, slices it high and wide. No matter his fitness and what he says about match fitness being a myth, and the same still applies even if he scores a hattrick in the second half - hes still very rusty in front of goal by his own standards. Big Sam knows best, itll take a few months probably for him to get that sharpness back. Egg on your face! There would be if I hadnt included the "No matter his fitness and what he says about match fitness being a myth, and the same still applies even if he scores a hattrick in the second half". Maybe Big Sam was wrong? He looked rusty as f*** as the ball flew into the top corner like. Not having a go at you or anyone in particular here btw, but I do wonder whether people actually realise, setting all the injuries aside, how good a striker we have on our books. All you tend to hear is people whining about him, but when properly fit he is absolute class. The "I'd play Martins ahead of Owen" posse are looking stupider with every passing game. Aye. But in all fairness, its easy to forget how good a player is when theyve been frequently injured over a long period.

Cole knocked it on to him, 6 yards out at a slight angle with all the time in the world to slot it past the keeper, panics and hits in into the keeper's face, ball rebounds to him with the keeper on the floor I think and him being in exact same position still with enough time to slot it home, slices it high and wide. No matter his fitness and what he says about match fitness being a myth, and the same still applies even if he scores a hattrick in the second half - hes still very rusty in front of goal by his own standards. Big Sam knows best, itll take a few months probably for him to get that sharpness back. Egg on your face! There would be if I hadnt included the "No matter his fitness and what he says about match fitness being a myth, and the same still applies even if he scores a hattrick in the second half". Maybe Big Sam was wrong?

Great goal. Hat-trick on the cards, Israel are woeful in defence.

Cole knocked it on to him, 6 yards out at a slight angle with all the time in the world to slot it past the keeper, panics and hits in into the keeper's face, ball rebounds to him with the keeper on the floor I think and him being in exact same position still with enough time to slot it home, slices it high and wide. No matter his fitness and what he says about match fitness being a myth, and the same still applies even if he scores a hattrick in the second half - hes still very rusty in front of goal by his own standards. Big Sam knows best, itll take a few months probably for him to get that sharpness back.

Owen one of the best finishers in the world.

What chance do you think there is of Denilson leaving in the near future? Despite his talent, hes surely going to struggle to be a regular first teamer with Fabregas at the club, hes surely going to need to move if he doesnt want to establish himself as a big name player. Would absolutely love it if we could land him, looks a really good midfielder every time ive seen him, certainly fitting to be Brazil's U21 (or similar) captain.

NZogbia had a good season before Roeder decided to freeze him out of the team, as good as Milner had last season for us, and hes in good attaking form this season despite playing as a fullback. Hard to say who is the better player right now, both are talented in different ways and both are still pretty raw when it comes to playing a team game on the ball (ie pass and move, use dribbling sparingly) as opposed to trying to be solo stars practically every time they get it, but theres certainly not much in it for me, definately not enough to warrant anyone who considers NZogbia better as mental.

Itd be the Championship under a different name and with different clubs but with essentially the same players and same standard of football.

Controversial in what way? Controversial is putting it lightly, it is never a pen. Henry has passed the ball and realised noone is in the box so instead he has tried to wrap his leg around the keeper and flung himself to the floor. Absolute joke of a penalty. Absolute joke of a post. You cannot say Henry has tried to win a pen. It is clear to anyone who has watched it that although the pass was misplaced their is nothing Henry can do to get out of the way of the keeper who comes sliding out. What? Henry has run into the box, flicked the ball away from the keeper and then proceeded to run into him, clouting him in the gob on the way past, that was the only major contact and the thing that Henry used to go down. Nothing the keeper could have done to have avoided it. It was never a penalty. No doubt the ref viewed it as the Keeper having rushed out, slid into the player, made contact however minimal, and most importantly, missed the ball completely.

In terms of the squad, we definately could do with Faye: CBs: Taylor Cacapa Rozenthal Beye Faye CM: Butt Emre Barton Geremi Smith Faye CF: Owen Smith Martins Viduka Ameobi Now thats what you call "strength in depth". Removing Feye on paper does leave a pretty decent squad still, but adding him makes it much more rounded and complete, covering potentially the worst injury crisis we're realistically likely to see at some stage this season. One things for sure, under Allardyce injuries are not going to affect us anything like the way injuries affected the previous squads we have had for the past 3+ seasons.

We really need to sign an attacking central midfielder with good passing and creativity in his locker, because unless Emre proves otherwise, we cant rely on him staying fit, and in this case its pretty ridiculous that hes virtually our only technically adept player with some form of creativity and flair in his game. Ive personally given up on Emre to an extent, because despite being a good player with natural technical ability on the ball, hes useless if he cant stay fit, and im not sure he has the physique and playing style to do so. This was a concern pointed out when we first signed him, because a midget who can both distribute the ball as well as dribble will always be a target for some teams to rough up - cant sit back otherwise he'll cause problems with his passing, cant close down because he can dribble past players once theyre sucked in, so the best alternative is to foul him. We saw this at Blackburn last year, when Emre had managed to stay fit for some time and was really starting to find some top form, where he was quickly becoming the heartbeat of the side - Blackburn players spent much of the game kicking lumps out of him, and the end result was predictably Emre being crocked yet again. Maybe hes better off in Spain or an alternative league where his chunky short legs wont be hacked everytime he runs past someone, but certainly this should be his last season to produce the goods with us or be moved on. We should have the money and hopefully be in a better position to attract someone better next summer if he does fail this season.

Maybe he was rusty last season, but some of the goals he leaked made him look like a lump of butter being knobbed by a big, warm, throbbing knife.

Were stuck with a player who is too weak and slow (without the ability on the ball to compensate) to be consistently effective up front against strong, aggressive Premiership centrebacks, as several seasons of poor performances in the Premiership as a striker have shown along with a poor scoring record, and who also doesnt make anything more than an average midfielder who doesnt know how to get forward and who can be pretty reckless - a backup player who is expecting to play regularly. Its a novel idea to have a utility player like Smith on the bench providing backup for two or three positions, because hes solid and off the ball/defensively hes a good team player, but hes not going to be happy on the bench, otherwise he wouldnt have left ManU, who play far more games than we do whilst having several injury prone players, and hence would have more scope to use him as backup player. I hope that Allardyce doesnt see him as a favourite who gets games purely because he signed him.

Or because there is noone else suitable for the role...ala Scott Parker last season. It almost certainly means hes a good professional though, which is yet another bonus considering the number of leaders and/or experienced model professionals we seem to be stacking up on - Cacapa, Beye, Butt, Geremi, Given, etc.

Geremi is a tad strange. Winning the ball doesnt seem natural to him - he can "tackle", but he'll not do so to anywhere near the degree or fluidity of Butt. Sometimes Geremi looks like hes making a half-hearted challenge, or is pulling out, but I think its more a case of raw, aggressive tackling not being part of his makeup. On the other side though, his first touch, composure, and passing, are at a much higher standard than Butt's. Depends on the opposition/game for me. If we're at home or against a side that we should comfortably outplay, drop Butt and play Geremi, since the onus on us to attack and play some football on the deck in order to create chances. If we're against a team with good attacking midfielders, or teams that will battle hard for every loose ball and would be happy to stick studs into our players, then probably go for Butt.

to start playing 4-4-2? Sign a top class creative player too.