Taylor Swift

I'm sure it's been accepted that he's going to take a paycut. Now with reduced years, the whole contract is a problem. I'm sure if we offered him a 3 year deal with the same terms as he's currently on, he would accept. But reducing the pay and reducing the years is creating a problem. He's still a good player but he's obviously not worth whatever money Shepherd stupidly signed him to (and although we don't know the specifics, it's pretty obvious now that he signed a lot of players to stupid long-term deals).

is it lowballing if we're offering him wages that most 29 year old mid-table center midfielders would accept?

Vidic said it best when he ruefully said 'they play with no striker'. Their wide-men are versatile enough to switch flanks with ease. Villa is comfortable in all three positions, Messi tormented Man Utd with his free role, dropping as deep as the halfway line to collect the ball and making 'man on the shoulder' runs that dragged Man Utd's defence all over the place. Pedro also had a good game and he's a man for the big occasion (now has scored in every stage of the competition and last year also scored in every competition possible). It's their midfield where they really kill it and it's the four there (when Messi drops deep) that do all the damage. It's astonishing how they simply move their little triangle of theirs from the center of the pitch to right in front of the opposition's area and do it with such calmness and composure. They're all excellent on the ball and even better off it, and it's they really are currently unstoppable. I don't think they had a match this season in which they had less than 50% possession or created a lesser amount of chances then their opposition. There isn't a formula for beating them. The only one that gives you a chance is the Mourinho one and that formula is as ugly and anti-football as you can get. It's just something that I don't think fans can stomach in the long run and it's better for football that Barcelona continue to triumph against teams that utilise such tactics. I'm just not sure how you stop this team right now. You're certainly not going to outscore them or strangle them through keeping possession. It's impossible to even pass the ball around in your defence because they pressure high up enough that you're eventually forced to kick it long. You'd have to really delve back into history to find a team that is so good at one aspect of the game that they could compete with this Barca team. Maybe it's the catenaccio side way back, maybe it's the total football team of Ajax, maybe it's the Brazilian WC winning teams who were so fluid in attack. I'm just not sure any side could dominate possession against this Barca team, and if you can't dominate possession, you're going to get fucked eventually. It's theoretically possible to outpass them but no team possesses enough players of that quality to do that, so I suppose the best teams can hope for is that Barca decline, either through age or through a lost of hunger. Xavi and Puyol are aging, so they won't be fixtures in the team for the long run, and it's possible that they'll get tired of the demands and pressures of winning everything sooner rather than later. There isn't anything else left for them to do, is there? Win three league titles in a row, check. Set new scoring records, check. Dominate Europe, check. Win the little cups to occupy space in the cabinet, check. Win the treble, check. They've done it all and scarily their key players are still young enough that they've got 2-3 more seasons to put their record out of reach for a long, long time. I already think they're the best team that I've ever seen because of how they play, and I think statistically they are already the best club side as well (2 CLs, 3 consecutive league titles, a treble season, a double season etc. etc.). Whatever else they win after this season is just icing on the cake that further separates them from their competitors in history.

Man Utd just weren't good enough. As good as Fergie is, it's the second time that he's been outwitted by Guardiola, and he can, again, have absolutely no complaints about the result. This was worse than '09, statistically (shots, corners, fouls, possession) and qualitatively (Man Utd's goal was against the run of play, they never had a shot on target after). Fergie's team selection was expected, but he probably made the mistake by not deciding whether to defend very deep or to try to play an expansive game. He went for a bit of both and ended up in the middle - a team with a midfield that couldn't keep the ball well enough nor press well enough to retrieve possession. He benched Nani, signalling a more defensive outlook, but he also played Hernandez, who was obviously going to struggle without service. It's a credit to him and his philosophy that he didn't follow the Mourinho formula. He probably thought about it, but it's just not the way he's done things for the past 25 years and if he had lost in front of millions of people with a team defending 11 men deep in their half, it would have been even more humiliating. Fergie's better than that and unfortunately believed his players were better than were, which is why he didn't have someone man-mark Messi; that was a critical error. His tactic was to press high and deny Barca the chance to build from the back, which worked for the first 10 minutes, but then Barca's midfield settled, Messi dropped deeper to offer an outlet and Man Utd never really had a shot at it after. This was a Barca side determined to make history. This was their season to confirm that they are the greatest club side ever. The pressure's been on them since the start of the season, since they beat Madrid 5-0 then Arsenal 3-1. If they had lost today, they could never claim that this was their era because Man Utd would have had two CLs in their era, both times beating them (08 in the semis and 11 in the final). They had to win yesterday because it was the final, and they had to win yesterday because their opponents have been the second strongest football team over the past 5 years (3 CL finals, 4 Premiership titles). It was the perfect opponent for them to crown their season and they did it with a great performance. It was match that lived up to the hype, for me. Barca played like they expected and dominated like expected, but the best part was the lack of shenanigans, diving and all the other shit that dominated the four Clasicos. I think it's pretty clear now that the common denominator in all the bullshit is Mourinho as Barca yesterday won the match as clearly and cleanly as you'd want . It was a match without refereeing controversy, which was quite good to see seeing as both sides have a reputation for pressuring the ref. The ref actually did a good job in keeping his cards in the pocket and generally let the game flow. I suppose both sides also deserve credit for not committing niggly fouls and being intent on playing, and not defending.

He clearly is one of the best modern day footballers. The season he's just had is nothing short of epic. From plundering in 50+ goals against all classes of opposition to being the top assist man in La Liga and if I'm correct, the CL as well, is just astonishing. With his goal last night, he also tied van Nistelrooy for the most goals scored in a CL campaign, and what a campaign it was for Messi. He scored in every stage (round robins, 2 against Arsenal in the round of 16, an away goal at Shakhtar, the epic double away at Madrid and the winner in the final), and has continually dominated matches. It's not only his end product that is now so much better than anyone else's (with Ronaldo the only one coming close), but it is in the other parts of his game that he truly rises above the rest, and it was immensely enjoyable to see him play in his best in yet another big match. As if scoring a historic double away at your biggest rivals in the CL final wasn't 'clutch' enough, to rip apart the Man Utd midfield last night was a special performance. It was his movement up front, pulling into the center and dragging Evra with him that created the space for Pedro to slide into. The second goal was him dropping into the space between the midfield and defence and punishing Man Utd. He caused so much havoc by dropping into that space throughout the match and made the pressing by Carrick and Park completely ineffective. It's useless trying to press with two or three men when your opposition has four (Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi dropping into the midfield). The third goal was also created by him dribbling past two players with ease before losing the ball in the box, but the pressure that Barca as a team put on you has been too much for any team to handle in the past three years and Man Utd suffered the same fate, Busquets stealing the ball and passing it to Villa to finish the match off. I wasn't surprised to see Man Utd playing a lot of hoof ball against Barca because it's too dangerous to play it out from the back against them. It was obvious that Fergie had spoken to Mourinho and that's why he went for the same attacking tactic. It's ironic that the player that can best do this is Cristiano because he's got the speed and technical ability to keep the ball but he's also got the strength and heading ability to actually fight for the ball against Barca's centerbacks. Hernandez is too lightweight for this and he was marked out of the game.

Man Utd getting owned. Men against boys.

Barca's line up?

Time for a thread. I'll put it a poll when I'm back on the pc. Right, so how do you think they line up? Barca are pretty straightforward, IMO. They've played the same team in all their big matches this season and they'll actually have all their players fit for this one. How about Man Utd? Does Hernandez start? Does Giggs start? What about Nani? It's quite unbelievable that the best player in the premiership this year will most probably be on the bench in the CL final. I don't know what that means except that Man Utd have a crazy strong squad of players. Saying that, I think their team is weaker than '09 and their style of play doesn't seem to have changed much from then, even with the change in formation. So because barca dominated them in '09, I don't see why this final would be different. Man Utd will probably score a goal but I'll go with Barca 3-1.

Barton's taking a huge risk. Let's say we start next season with some new players but him still having only one year remaining on his contract, any prolonged injury will completely fuck him. And if he goes out of form for a bit and is replaced, he is even more fucked. I think most clubs in the premiership already consider him to be a very high-risk guy without being the necessary associated high-value in return. The guy is not going to get any better. He will start to get worse very soon. He has a bad history and a bad reputation which is justified. The only way he comes out well is if he plays like a champ next year, but that's obviously assuming he will get to play. We could easily loan in a couple of players (denilson from arsenal? leftover midfielders from city?) and they would have the same value to us as Barton does since they won't be here the year after.

Barton is on CL wages. He's not a CL player and we're not a CL team yet and we're not close enough to be able to take these financial risks. Ergo he needs to take a pay cut.

wasn't he ging t sign in the windw then said 'nah' after we sld carroll? what's changed? siding with the club in this case but this shit is fuckin boring

Bellamy would start for us right now. He'd start at a team like Spurs, tbh.

You can tell which players have good technique if you see them play a match. It's not hard to tell if someone has a good first touch or not. Show a kid xavi receiving and passing a ball compared to everyone else and he'll know. It's the anticipation, movement and timing bit that can't be deduced from watching a video. Luque actually had the former attributes but his work rate was terrible and his movement and timing was never on with the rest of the team. But he wasn't shit. You don't play for spain if you're shit. Gameiro looks good on that video if you consider his finishing, but his first touch and technique doesn't look special to me.

Emre was pretty good, though. He was just injured all the time.

Borriello would fail in the premiership. He's just too slow for it.

kun has a clause saying he cant be sld to real id say chelsea/barca but hping wenger steps up wud be perfect fr arse

barca - kun

We'll obviously have a deadline for them to accept and given our transfer history, I think it would be a serious deadline as well. Maybe they won't get a better offer than ours? You could easily apply that logic to every transfer concluded before 30th august but sometimes things are done early if a club meets the asking price. It's bad business moving goalposts if someone meets your asking price. Man utd had Hernandez for 8m done before the wc. The club that sold off would have done a lot better if they had waited until after the wc.

Yes and that's why I think this bid is likely to have occured. Whether it's serious is another matter. They might have asked for 15m and we're just trolling by bidding 10m. But maybe they want some cash for him right now so they'll sell soon. I think this also has to do with the Enrique situation. If we can get in a few players we should be able to convince him to extend his contract by a couple of years, giving us more time to replace him/challenge/get a higher fee for someone who is so good.

+ 4 def + gk

4-3-3 ftw new st hba new rw bartn captain tite better than barca

And plenty more we could and should have lost, Blackpool away being a clear example.

Law of diminishing returns, Elliott man

their midfied is shite plus ive assumed that we invest smething like 25-30m we are nt far ff 13 pts is easily gettable

How are Liverpool better than us? We're better at the back. Our midfield can compete with theirs. Hell, even in the game we lost 3-0 we controlled possession for such a long time in the first half. We conceded an unlucky goal then unraveled but we had fuck all to play for so it's not a reflection of the difference in quality between the teams. The only position on the pitch that they've got better players is up front, and my post had the premise that we invest the Carroll money. Honestly, if we get a quick striker who drifts into channel (8-10) and a poacher type, we're pretty much laughing next year. Our defense is still rock solid, HBA is better than anyone they have in midfield and with Tiote sitting in the middle, we have a very strong midfield. We lack movement up front which allows other teams to press us higher and thus restricts our ability to create good chances but a quick striker would easily fix this problem. And I said that we'd be as close to the CL as they would be because they won't get close, not with the way Dalglish has them playing. They've beaten up on teams who have given up on the season while they're still riding high. Let's see how he does when everyone gives a shit in august and september.