Unbelievable

Couldn´t have put it better myself (God knows I tried.. ) mackems.gif You've been posting something entirely different to Apisith..... Maybe you should learn to read..

You present your opinion as if it were a fact. I think it´s complete nonsense. Of course a player´s transfer fee needs to be weighed in when rating their signing. N´Zogbia was a very good piece of business, partly because we found him on the cheap before other people realised his potential. Would he have been a good signing if we had paid Le Havre 30 million? Didn´t think so.. You can misinterpret the "presentation" of my posts as you like. Anyone with half a brain will understand I'm offering an opinion and that like everyone else when they post their opinion, it's true I believe what I write. Why else would I write something? Are you admitting that when you post you don't actually believe what you're writing? It's a fact that I think you post rubbish, but I hadn't realised you thought so too. By the way, "good business" is a different subject. Smith can overpriced and so be poor business at £6m, but he can still be a decent player for our team. I doubt you'll understand that either. I understand it but I just don't see it. Anyway, it's quite pityful you need to resort to abuse again..

Seeing as he seems totally unable to move into potential goalscoring positions or create such opportunities for himself I don´t think his possible lucidity in front of goal will serve him very often, if he even has it, of which there is very, very little evidence.

Couldn´t have put it better myself (God knows I tried.. )

You present your opinion as if it were a fact. I think it´s complete nonsense. Of course a player´s transfer fee needs to be weighed in when rating their signing. N´Zogbia was a very good piece of business, partly because we found him on the cheap before other people realised his potential. Would he have been a good signing if we had paid Le Havre 30 million? Didn´t think so..

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys. Must admit this is the same perspective that I see things from, I thought this was the general consensus withe the majority of the fans as well. People have adjusted their targets because of our mediocre start of the season. It´s a human thing to do, but that doesn´t make it valid. This is what people thought before the season started: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=43276.0 With our squad, management and means we should be targetting the top seven.

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys. To suggest we should not be targetting Europe is delusional. Take note: I´m not saying we should be in Europe next season per se, and this season will be a failure if we don´t make Europe, but as far as targets go I think that should be it. We should aim to overachieve, and in terms of transfer policy especially we should target players who can take us to the next level, not consolidate our current average position. This is even more true in light of our new ownership, who I can´t see not targetting a return to European football in the next few seasons. To get it this season would be a bonus, but seeing as it´s not completely out of reach that´s what we should be trying to achieve. Would we have been in Europe last season if we didn´t aim European qualification when Roeder took over..? It might not have been realistic at that point in time, but with a combination of determination and belief we did achieve it in the end..

I don´t necessarily disagree with this, but as we are rating our summer signings in this thread, I can´t see how people can rate what Smith has done for us as very positive, taking into account his pricetag and the fact he seems undroppable, even if this means playing him in midfield where he is totally useless. We could have done much better with what we spent on him, especially if we would have gone for a creative central midfielder capable of playing on the right.

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching. I didn´t say he NEVER scores, just his goalscoring record is nowhere near good enough for a club gunning for European football.. I asked you when was the last time Smith showed his good vision and creativity which you claim he has, and you can´t even give me one incident in which he showed this? Speaks volumes doesn´t it. What use is a striker who doesn´t create or score goals? We´ll have to agree to disagree on the holding the ball up argument, and I have conceeded we have looked slightly better in recent weeks, but I still firmly believe I could have found many better striker options at 6M.. You think we're gunning for European Football...? Really? We obviously have differing opinions in many areas! No chance this season. Anyway, Smith. I'm seeing improvements in only two games playing in his correct position, and I can see the benfit to the team he is bringing. Out of 4 goals scored while playing up front he has 1 assist (which he won in the air against arsenal and flicked to Taylor) and won a penalty which won the match. Not bad really? Hard to apply to two games though, and the way in which he has battled, and held up the ball in particular against Arsenal has been impressive. I'd have to go back to Leeds to give you examples I can remember where I have been impressed with regards to pinpointing what defines good vision and creativity but he is a player I have always liked and I think he can do a very good job for us in the present situation we have found ourselves in (and I believe we are not looking at playing in Europe this season - call me pessimistic just the team I see as a unit does not impress me at all). We should be gunning for European football, and we perhaps could have done if we would have spent the 6M on a real footballer like Elano instead of a grafter like Smith.. You claim Smith has good vision and creativity, but you have to go back over three seasons for an example.. I think it´s safe to say your judgement is a bit clouded by the fact you liked him before he came here and you hope he can do a job for us.

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching. I didn´t say he NEVER scores, just his goalscoring record is nowhere near good enough for a club gunning for European football.. I asked you when was the last time Smith showed his good vision and creativity which you claim he has, and you can´t even give me one incident in which he showed this? Speaks volumes doesn´t it. What use is a striker who doesn´t create or score goals? We´ll have to agree to disagree on the holding the ball up argument, and I have conceeded we have looked slightly better in recent weeks, but I still firmly believe I could have found many better striker options at 6M..

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close.. "ERM" yes he does. Not even the best strikers in the world who have specialised in holding a ball up attain that sort of percentage. I think you´d be lucky if he even retained half of the balls hoofed up to him.. I´m sure you´ve got the stats to back up your claim?

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close..

It does, in the most important statistic of them all, which is why he shouldn't be anywhere near one of our forward positions either... mackems.gif Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to you, but did you read what I posted or did you just fail to grasp the meaning? You said, "it does." Well, what does? Tell me. Imo, individual statistics aren't that important. What is really important is the TEAM. If the general play is consistently good enough and effective enough you will do ok overall, the team will win matches and will climb the table. If certain individuals appear to have 'ace' statistics but the overall TEAM play is s*** and ineffective, the TEAM will do nowt. A recent and good example being the much raved about Parker, who is apparently a "great player" according to many of the stats people on here because he had the highest number of completed passes while at Newcastle. mackems.gif Carry on basing everything on newspaper statistics if that's what you prefer but I'll make up my mind by watching football matches. Ta Goals win you games. Strikers/forwards are supposed to score and/or create goals, more so than other players on the pitch anyway. By playing a striker who hardly ever scores but works very hard, we may be slightly easier on the eye, but I can't see it benefiting us for the most important team statistic: points gained.. Besides, apart from working hard, what exactly does Alan Smith contribute that makes him worth his 6M price tag? Goalscoring - nope Technique - nope Vision - nope Creativity - nope Holding the ball up - nope I'd go as far as to say Ameobi is a better striker, and I don't rate Shola at all! I have to admit our football has improved slightly in the last few matches and Smith was exceptionally good vs Arsenal, but vs Birmingham and Fulham he was more or less what I would have expected from Smith as a forward: hard working but ineffective and never threathening.

It does, in the most important statistic of them all, which is why he shouldn't be anywhere near one of our forward positions either...

I've seen it a couple of times and would be very disappointed, but looks like I will have to see it again in that case..

Very debatable if you ask me.. How exactly? Smith knocks the ball away, the man dives in and gets nowhere near the ball and takes Smith out. He doesn't take Smith out though, hardly even touches him.. I'm a 100% serious. Which part of the defender's body touches Smith where with such an impact as to "take him out"..?

Very debatable if you ask me.. How exactly? Smith knocks the ball away, the man dives in and gets nowhere near the ball and takes Smith out. He doesn't take Smith out though, hardly even touches him..

Very debatable if you ask me..

I'd be very disappointed if that pen decision went against us, so that's definately 2 points won through a dubious referee decision..

YEAH!!!

Come on Barton!!

Never a pen that....

PEN!

Neither has done owt. Very true, but at least Martins COULD score... Almost scored!!