Yorkie

Yep, spot on. In some cases it just reads like choosing anxiety over reality. See also 'West Ham were absolutely shit.' It's just not real. Bad result, yes. Embarrassing result against some lesser beings, no.

The cherry on top being that we could only sell to the very teams we're trying to catch. It's all utter horseshit and the principal reason for why we haven't kicked on this year. If you're not one of those teams, you make one competitively-priced mistake and you're fucked. The pressure on our academy should be immense now. Don't envy Harper's role at all.

I mean the full exchange does just sound like banter as opposed to some grave misdemeanour. If the booking was justified then the "I hope you" line just sounds like a nod to their earlier conversation, and the coincidence of it actually happening. The other person didn't even place the bet. So dim to put it in writing, mind.

We've been over this before like you say so I won't labour the point, but in summary my view is that the 23/24 summer window was a good one, which was completely undermined by not supplementing it in 24/25. The jury's out on Tonali but the rest were all good signings. PSR is a cunt, btw. It shouldn't exist. It's not a minor inconvenience which we whinge about, as if our problems are of our own making. It's inherently keeping us at arms length.

The transfer window where we bought a load of class players is more responsible for our slump than the one where we signed fuck all, is it? Come on, man. Take your 23/24 transfer window dartboard down now, it's knackered.

I more-or-less agree with everything you've said there, I just think there's plenty of 'excuses' (to use your word) for why we might not finish in Europe again, should that happen. It's a very difficult league to be successful in for lots of reasons. I do accept that it might not fly with the owners, depending on what their ambitions are. We finished 7th last season btw; a point at Stamford Bridge away from European football. Fuck, if Coventry's legitimate winner in the FA Cup semi counted, even then we'd be in Europe now. Such were the fine margins. I think it's harsh to summarise last season as us going backwards when it was basically impossible to improve on 22/23. We were actually really unlucky tbh.

Sorry for my tone but this is just such bollocks. There are six, maybe seven, European places available in league where the rules enable six specific, pre-determined teams to occupy them. Meanwhile the league is incredibly competitive with very expensively assembled squads, led by trophy-winning managers, in virtually all areas of the division. I believe that Newcastle United should be challenging for 'modern honours' as much as the next fan. But going on like those positions should rightfully be ours really does make for some shitty discussion. It's just over-expecting.

I still can't entertain any notion of replacing the manager, not least because I feel like the pool of people who would represent an improvement is incredibly small. There some concerning signs for sure this season, but I still think we look a good team on the whole, and the identity of the side is still recognisable: we're still a team which is set up to press and create lots of chances. The biggest issue all season has been that we haven't been clinical enough; that's a recipe for dropped points when every opponent apart from Southampton has a lot of quality. As long as the players still believe in the manager's ideas then we shouldn't even be considering changing. We've had two great seasons on the bounce (bollocks to you if you think last season wasn't class) so he's earned the right to find the solutions, or keep at plan A until it works. And like I keep saying, it's a season that could be defined by the cups. It would be heartbreaking if he wasn't at least given another shot at the Carabao Cup.

Has he though? There's been the odd tidy performance but I'm not really sure what we're missing with him out of the team. I've no beef with the guy, just looks like he wasn't the CM we needed. Still early days to some extent.

I don't feel better, I just feel relatively relaxed about most defeats these days. It's just very tedious when reality gets ignored in favour of made-up stuff like our opponents being shite, or something. The table position doesn't even mean that much when it's so tight and our immediate competitors are also stuttering. The teams currently in 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th all dropped bad points this weekend - most giving then away to teams lower in the table.

Why does every opponent we face, outside of roughly Liverpool and Man City, have to be portrayed as dogshit? Makes the discourse so much worse. I'm not saying it's a forgivable result but we've not been beaten by some no-marks there; they've had a ropey start but were very good tonight. The league is extremely competitive this year. Even apparent crap like Southampton are capable of giving the runaway leaders a scare.

Complete mystery why you keep going after Barnes; he's been good for us and provides the only really quality attacker that we have 'in depth.' Meanwhile the other two signings you don't mention have established themselves as starters and are regularly two of our best players. Jury still out on the Tonali signing but it would take someone very optimistic to say anything other than its been a bit of a disaster so far.

Ah we did, did we? We had enough for one first team player. And that has to go on a guaranteed hit when you get held at gunpoint if you so much as lose a 50p down the back of the sofa.

Couldn't agree more and I really wish this was the first thing everyone would jump to on nights like this. It doesn't absolve anyone of an isolated poor performance, but the bigger picture is that this season looks every bit like the institutional anti-competitiveness finally striking. We were still riding a post-takeover wave even last season; this summer we were always going to need a boost, but it wasn't forthcoming. Criticise the Guehi chase if you like but there's no way we only sign Kelly/Osula if PSR isn't so stringent.

A point you tried to visually emphasise at the last forum kickabout.

I'll always defend him but there's no denying that - in terms of trying to impact the game positively - he totally shanked it tonight. On another night, the individual errors don't happen and the onus isn't suddenly put on him to tactically manoeuvre our way back into it. I can't blame him for Kelly's defending or Gordon's sitter. But the second half was a complete mess. We started very well and the general identity of the team is still in his attacking, high-pressing, play 'til we die image - and that'll bring far more good nights than bad. But I can empathise with those wondering if this is still moving in the right direction. The mitigation is of course in the fact we didn't back him in the summer. The most worrying thing is breaking the SJP illusion. We've been nigh on unbeatable here but just been made to look very ordinary by a decent-not-special team, not long after being beaten by another close rival. That's not good for him.

It's yet more evidence that we're just midtabley as fuck this season; doesn't look like we're going to be capable of building consistency like we did in 22/23. All about the cups this year imo.

Sigh, really painful watch. Thought we were really good in the first half tbh, just let down by a dire goal to concede. Five minutes into the second half and it still felt like a matter of time before we scored and potentially turned it around... Second goal killed us dead. The wind was totally knocked out of the players' sails, at which point they're looking to the manager for impetus. Sadly he got every single tweak wrong and by the end we looked extremely desperate. Should've had a penalty mind.

Why would it be?

Utter arseholes.

No mistaking it's turned into a pretty concerning performance. Credit to West Ham, they've been excellent since their second goal, but it's been very difficult watching us completely run out of ideas. You can see how we've lost belief too. Bad one.

Agree, as was the Forest first half. If they keep pressing like they have, sharpen up the attack and the fans stay with them, there's absolutely something for us here, potentially three points.

Don't know why I expected people in here to be praising the performance and lamenting the goal against the run of play. Ah well. Utterly woeful it is, then.

Very frustrating. Think we've been good with two or three stand-out performances. Basically the Forest game in that we're playing areet but need to sharpen up our attack and we're behind to a poorly defended set piece. Not panicking yet, like. Surely there's a goal or two in this for us?