Parky

Think that's part of the picture as well. Some of the heart has gone out of the domestic game and has been replaced by hair gel and alice bands ( I wonder where they came from??)

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact. Spurs have put the breaks on spending? I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams. Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence. Modric cost a bomb and his and Van der Vaart's wages would have been massive, not to mention Adebayor's. Their bench at times last season was full of expensive international talent. As Sewelly said their spending has been higher than ever. Yet still Walker broke through. Spurs have a wage structure in iron. ManC pay half his wages. Relatiely speaking for a senior dutch int VDV has been cheap. Walker came through cause they couldn't get a good deal on a right back for ages after Hutton was done with. Livermore and Huddlestone got games for the same reason.

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact. Spurs have put the breaks on spending? I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams. I wonder if that is coincidence or perhaps due to the new rules coming in regarding homegrown players. I do think those rules will help a bit but the sad truth is we are not producing players good enough to challenge these foreigners for a place in the team. It's not that they don't get a chance to improve but that they're not good enough. We could have given Ramage or Huntington a thousand games but they'd never have been as good as Coloccini or Enrique. So to use Newcastle as an example our English kids just weren't talented enough so we got the chequebook out and scouted abroad. I do take the point our youngsters need more gametime but they might be better off getting that gametime in the Championship, proving their ability and then a Prem team will take the punt. Plenty have gone that route. Haven't Arsenal just signed Giroud and Podolski too? They played 11 foreginers for a spell. But the rule changes means that Eng players are being sought out or trained or given a chance.

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact. Spurs have put the breaks on spending? I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams. Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence. Same with Huddlestone and Livermore.

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was. Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point. Wilshire and Cleverly will go onto play for Eng only if their respective clubs stick with their development and don't bring expensive imports in over their heads.

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

60% of PL players can't play for England. It's about 45% in Germany and Italy and 35% for Holland and Spain. 30% for France.

It does if young English players can't get near PL club youth schemes because they're full of foreign kids. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Little Englander, I understand why it is like this, I'm just saying you can't expect waves of talented English kids to come through if the best places for them to earn their trade are too busy poaching 15 year old French kids. The money at the top of the English game also makes it more difficult for young talent to find its way to the top - only the biggest clubs can afford to buy real talent with little risk further down the ladder because of the English premium that clubs further down know they can and must hold out for - look at the prices for Walcott, Ox-C, Bale, Rodriguez, Delph, the kid Man Utd have just bought from Crewe. Why would you risk top dollar on a kid with half a dozen League Two appearances when you can get Hatem Ben Arfa and Yohan Cabaye for less than £10m? That's why the number of foreigners is a problem, simply because they're so bloody cheap and £10m gets you a much better player in France or Germany than it does here. The price of that England team tonight was staggering - Johnson, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Parker, Henderson, Carroll, Rooney, Young, what's that, a combined £190-200m? Jesus wept. How many of them would get in Newcastle's team? Less than half. Totally agree. Furthermore when and if they do break into a PL side they have to make an immediate impact as they are in a totally synthetic competition for a place againt players from all over the world.

Did Welbeck actually do anything than walk around watching the back 8 defend.

The only option for Eng in the near future is to play two proper wingers (who beat people and cross) and two holding midfielders. It's something that they understand and will garner goals. I'd have started Carroll, Walcott and OX today and just told Gerrard to hit them (the wingers) early.

You can see how scared the Eng players are without a Modric or a Silva or a Mata pulling the strings and building an attack for them. They don't really understand sequencing or rotating and interchanging into a better position. This was an average Italian side but the football intelligence was like that of Einstein plaing a brickie at chess.

There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Untill there is a limit of 3 foreign players in a side (the EU has f***ed that up anyway) this mire will continue. You really think that will benefit the league? It's not about the league is it? It's about Eng players getting more games and taking more responsability. However it's dressed up there aren't enough Eng players coming through to make a difference (never mind quality one's). The players making it into the teams and playing every week isn't going to help. They are still fundamentally not very good. Only changing the way they are coached and developed from the very start will help. Yes the coaching and development needs to be changed, but they'd still need to be picked into the team when the time comes. Having 5 or so English players playing week after week would be better than them sitting on the bench week after week. Actually only the reluctance of Wenger to spend has meant Ox, Walcott and Wilshire getting games...If Gervinho has been all he was cracked up to be where would even Walcott and Ox be getting games??

The PL is a spectacle that is to the detriment of the Eng setup. The game is too high paced and phsical that just doesn't translate into international football or help develop home grown players with the right skillset (top foreign players taking most of the key roles in club sides).

There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Untill there is a limit of 3 foreign players in a side (the EU has f***ed that up anyway) this mire will continue. You really think that will benefit the league? got to look at how germany changed after 2000 (it was 2000 wasn't it ?) Aye it was. I remember when they changed their whole youth setup as they couldn't see any players coming through. Reeping the rewards now. Correct.

There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Untill there is a limit of 3 foreign players in a side (the EU has fucked that up anyway) this mire will continue. Parky, is your thinking if that there is limitations then the clubs and FA will be forced to restructure at youth level? Because limiting the number of foreign players in the short term will just mean loads of rubbish players playing instead of ending up in the lower leagues like they would do. The recent imporovement of the German side had a lot to do with them being less reliant in the Bundesliga on important foreign players (there is research on it somewhere)...

There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Untill there is a limit of 3 foreign players in a side (the EU has fucked that up anyway) this mire will continue. You really think that will benefit the league? It's not about the league is it? It's about Eng players getting more games and taking more responsability. However it's dressed up there aren't enough Eng players coming through to make a difference (never mind quality one's).

Clearly evident on throw in's when everyone is just standing still just about. Then some clown half heartedly plods forward looking terrifyied he might have to deal with the ball.

There's so many foreigners in the league at the minute because the youngsters that are coming through aren't good enough, not the other way round. Untill there is a limit of 3 foreign players in a side (the EU has fucked that up anyway) this mire will continue.

Eng movement off the ball is essentially pub side stuff. No alternatives given to the man on the ball but a half hearted hoof forward mostly.

The Premier League is far closer to being the reason why England are shit, not a reason why we shouldn't be so. Look at some of the players who got into the England squad this time. Downing. What kind of a season has he had? Was it zero goals and zero assists? Henderson? A kid who had one half decent season at Sunderland, then an utter stinker for Liverpool. England's third choice goalkeeper is Jack Butland. Honestly, I wouldn't recognise him if he turned up to empty my bins (and given Birmingham City's financial situation, that's not out of the question pretty soon). The Premier League is not the best league in the world. it is the best marketed league in the world. Once you get past that, you have to look at the fact that there really aren't that many very good English players in it, so stuffed full is it of foreign players. You can then look at the fact that the money grabbing clubs, with the equally avaricious agents and players ensure that nothing like enough money trickles down to grass roots football education for kids. Just like none of it trickles down to create affordable tickets for fans, absolutely everything about the English game is short termist, and centred on greed, and that is why we'll never achieve anything at international level. Too many foreign players, not enough skill, game taught badly at youth levels (switch to big pitches and stamina/ strength too early). PL too high tempo (makes for good spectacle but low on teaching players ball intelligence and tempo). It's being fixed bit by bit (so they've been saying for two decades now) but not grass roots and substansial enough. It's basically still all wrong.

Winning the group was a cunning to ploy to raise mass expectations the cernts.

CR is turning that tag around this time tho.

Just didn't have a proper go at them apart from two 5min spells in the first half. Dismal really. And make no mistake this is a pretty average Italian side which will be swept away by Germany.

Would have saved Defoe for extra time. Ah well.

Never beaten Italy in a knockout game ever.